"Higby pls" process explained - PlanetSide Universe
PSU Social Facebook Twitter Twitter YouTube Steam TwitchTV
PlanetSide Universe
PSU: It's Deja Vu! PSU: It's Deja Vu!
Home Forum Chat Wiki Social AGN PS2 Stats
Notices
Go Back   PlanetSide Universe > PlanetSide Discussions > PlanetSide 2 Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 2013-06-21, 06:21 AM   [Ignore Me] #1
Rolfski
Major
 
Rolfski's Avatar
 
"Higby pls" process explained


With all the recent rage quit drama about people/outfits pulling the plug because this game being "unfinished" and feature X/Y/Z still not into this game, this video might give us some perspective.

Although it does a lousy job of illustrating the passion that lies underneath a product like Planetside 2, this video probably gives us a good idea of the challenges SOE devs are facing every day and the model that lies behind deliberately releasing an "unfinished" product. It's called "Agile software development" and probably was chosen by SOE because it works well with the F2P business model.

In this video: "Product Owner" = Higby/Smedley, "Stakeholder" = We, the players, "User Stories" = Planetside 2 features and "Product Backlog" = Roadmap.


Last edited by Rolfski; 2013-06-29 at 10:02 AM.
Rolfski is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2013-06-21, 06:53 AM   [Ignore Me] #2
Thunderhawk
Contributor
Second Lieutenant
 
Thunderhawk's Avatar
 
Re: "Higby pls" process explained


This is how we work in my company, and the video makes total sense, please watch to educate yourselves as to how Software development works....
__________________
Thunderhawk is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2013-06-21, 07:12 AM   [Ignore Me] #3
EvilNinjadude
Second Lieutenant
 
Re: "Higby pls" process explained


I'm sad for everyone right now because the dev team is all like "We're working on it! We need time and money!"
And the players are all like, "We gave you time and money, where's our game?"

Your video illustrates the point: Concepts get older for players faster than for developers. Now you just have people going "it's an MMOFPS SO WHAT."

The devs are still trying to make this game better, but they can't do it fast enough. What THEY (the publisher and devs) need is starting to shift their focus as they try to gain time, while long-term stuff is being worked on. Their focus is being shifted to trying to keep new players in the game.

I don't know how much faster new content (Continents) would be hitting the game if they were to focus EXCLUSIVELY on it. I'm not gonna make any calls. Chances are it's not much, according to the devs, but A SHITTON according to many voices on the forums. Both sides have bias. Looks like I'll have to listen to both and neither of them.
__________________
EvilNinjadude is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2013-06-21, 07:23 AM   [Ignore Me] #4
NewSith
Contributor
Brigadier General
 
NewSith's Avatar
 
Re: "Higby pls" process explained


Originally Posted by EvilNinjadude View Post
I'm sad for everyone right now because the dev team is all like "We're working on it! We need time and money!"
And the players are all like, "We gave you time and money, where's our game?"

Your video illustrates the point: Concepts get older for players faster than for developers. Now you just have people going "it's an MMOFPS SO WHAT."

The devs are still trying to make this game better, but they can't do it fast enough. What THEY (the publisher and devs) need is starting to shift their focus as they try to gain time, while long-term stuff is being worked on. Their focus is being shifted to trying to keep new players in the game.

I don't know how much faster new content (Continents) would be hitting the game if they were to focus EXCLUSIVELY on it. I'm not gonna make any calls. Chances are it's not much, according to the devs, but A SHITTON according to many voices on the forums. Both sides have bias. Looks like I'll have to listen to both and neither of them.

I want to quote this in response:
Originally Posted by NewSith View Post
I actually love how instead of creating tented routes to the CC, they are adding a shield instead.

That's PS2 in a nutshell there, excuse my negativism. Instead of implementing simple and working solutions, they instead always add unorthodox, untested and typically faulty ones.
..and it ends up with them needing to fix, rework and revamp the features all the time. Of course they don't have any spare time on their hands.
__________________

Originally Posted by CutterJohn View Post
Shields.. these are a decent compromise between the console jockeys that want recharging health, and the glorious pc gaming master race that generally doesn't.

Last edited by NewSith; 2013-06-21 at 07:25 AM.
NewSith is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2013-06-21, 08:14 AM   [Ignore Me] #5
camycamera
Major
 
camycamera's Avatar
 
Re: "Higby pls" process explained


yes, more people need to watch this.
__________________

camycamera is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2013-06-21, 08:18 AM   [Ignore Me] #6
Kiten
Private
 
Kiten's Avatar
 
Re: "Higby pls" process explained


I agree with the definition of Planetside 2 as an Agile Product. I would go as far as to say that this definition is obvious (as long as you have the knowledge needed to use that term, of course).

The problem here is that there are very few games that are so evidently shaped and managed as such; especially so if we just look at games that use first person shooting interfaces. So many of this game's players are not experienced with this style of development, or do not understand what to expect. Regardless, I feel the team gets way too much critique than they deserve.

I do think that some of the people on the team may not be experienced with shooter games from time to time. But they're passionate, and learning more and more with each coming update. I can feel it more and more as time comes by.

Patience is a good thing. I would recommend this to many other Planetside 2 players. Also, a touch of optimism and understanding.
__________________
Something deep is to be hidden. Where? On the Surface.

~ Hugo von Hofmannsthal
Kiten is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2013-06-21, 08:21 AM   [Ignore Me] #7
Canaris
Contributor
General
 
Canaris's Avatar
 
Re: "Higby pls" process explained


awesome vid Rolfski, anyone who comes to the development forums should be made watch this as an orientation video before they open their mouths... or flex their fingers as it were heh
__________________

"Don't matter who did what to who at this point. Fact is, we went to war, and now there ain't no going back. I mean shit, it's what war is, you know? Once you in it, you in it! If it's a lie, then we fight on that lie. But we gotta fight. "
Slim Charles aka Tallman - The Wire
BRTD Mumble Server powered by Gamercomms
Canaris is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2013-06-21, 09:08 AM   [Ignore Me] #8
VaderShake
First Lieutenant
 
VaderShake's Avatar
 
Re: "Higby pls" process explained


Originally Posted by Kiten View Post
I agree with the definition of Planetside 2 as an Agile Product. I would go as far as to say that this definition is obvious (as long as you have the knowledge needed to use that term, of course).

The problem here is that there are very few games that are so evidently shaped and managed as such; especially so if we just look at games that use first person shooting interfaces. So many of this game's players are not experienced with this style of development, or do not understand what to expect. Regardless, I feel the team gets way too much critique than they deserve.

I do think that some of the people on the team may not be experienced with shooter games from time to time. But they're passionate, and learning more and more with each coming update. I can feel it more and more as time comes by.

Patience is a good thing. I would recommend this to many other Planetside 2 players. Also, a touch of optimism and understanding.

^^^This, I see this video less for SOE and more for those who want to rage quit. Customers/Players seldom care about the process of product development and just want the end result. I'm sure SOE has a plan and is trying to balance this process. SOE made it clear and has been upfront from the start that this is a long term project for those rage quitting I guess they have no patience and stamina for this process. However by punching out and rage quitting they lose their Stake in the development of the game.
__________________
VaderShake is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2013-06-21, 09:10 AM   [Ignore Me] #9
Shogun
Contributor
General
 
Shogun's Avatar
 
Re: "Higby pls" process explained


Originally Posted by Kiten View Post

I do think that some of the people on the team may not be experienced with shooter games from time to time. But they're passionate, and learning more and more with each coming update. I can feel it more and more as time comes by.
well, what did they learn from 10 years of planetside 1?
next to zero! they took all the stuff that didn´t work over to ps2 and scrapped all the things that worked great and made the game so much fun.
__________________
***********************official bittervet*********************

stand tall, fight bold, wear blue and gold!
Shogun is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2013-06-21, 03:57 PM   [Ignore Me] #10
bpostal
Contributor
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Re: "Higby pls" process explained


Originally Posted by Shogun View Post
well, what did they learn from 10 years of planetside 1?
next to zero! they took all the stuff that didn´t work over to ps2 and scrapped all the things that worked great and made the game so much fun.
I agree with you, it does seem like many things that were working for nigh on a decade were dumped; throwing the baby out with the bathwater for lack of a better analogy. Hell I've even said pretty much what you've said on this and other forums.
Over time though the shift to reintroduce systems and mechanics from Planetside, such as lattice, has proven to me at least that even if SOE hasn't jumped to straight up remake Planetside, they are at least learning from their mistakes.
Not to mention, by the time it's (Planetside) gotten to the point where it is now, 10 years down the road, the game can be incredibly complicated. It's difficult to remember that when you're immersed in the game but trying to explain the intricate gameplay to someone new can be difficult.
Launching with reduced complexity has, in my mind, been beneficial for the game. If we picked up right where Planetside left off then I firmly believe that the game would have a substantially smaller player base than it does now.
That said, where's mah Global Lattice (with proper cont locks)?!
__________________

Smoke me a Kipper, I'll be back for breakfast
bpostal is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2013-06-21, 04:09 PM   [Ignore Me] #11
Whiteagle
Major
 
Whiteagle's Avatar
 
Re: "Higby pls" process explained


Originally Posted by NewSith View Post
..and it ends up with them needing to fix, rework and revamp the features all the time. Of course they don't have any spare time on their hands.
Exactly, the reason we end up sounding so pissed off is that their are problems we've spotted from the outset that were NEVER adressed.
For instance, when do you think I drew this:
Whiteagle is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2013-06-21, 04:17 PM   [Ignore Me] #12
Timealude
Captain
 
Timealude's Avatar
 
Re: "Higby pls" process explained


Originally Posted by Shogun View Post
well, what did they learn from 10 years of planetside 1?
next to zero! they took all the stuff that didn´t work over to ps2 and scrapped all the things that worked great and made the game so much fun.
its not all the same dev team...
__________________
Spec Ops Infiltrator for Hayabusa.
Gameplay Stream
Click for tips on Gameplay.
Timealude is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2013-06-22, 07:47 AM   [Ignore Me] #13
Dougnifico
First Lieutenant
 
Dougnifico's Avatar
 
Re: "Higby pls" process explained


I completely understand. I think where the mistake might have been is the fell behind in speed which lead to money drying up. This forced a release with bad architecture. When that happened, their technical debt was enormous from day one. Optimally, they would have released 6 months later and not had the technical debt, but perhaps finances wouldn't allow. What I hope is, in light of a slowed release schedule, that this technical debt is overcome and they can increase the dev teams delivery capacity.
Dougnifico is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2013-06-22, 08:12 AM   [Ignore Me] #14
WSNeo
Master Sergeant
 
WSNeo's Avatar
 
Re: "Higby pls" process explained


Originally Posted by Timealude View Post
its not all the same dev team...
Neither are the players, but we know what worked, what was fun, and what would keep us playing over an extended period of time.

Instead the devs have decided what THEY think is fun (pump action shotties even though it was downvoted) and it's biting them in the ass (it taking six months for the devs to finally decide to implement the lattice even after toting that the hex was more fun, this as an effect knocked Hossin from it's earliest announcement date from March-May all the way back to August, and Searhus, which the last ETA I remembered was February to unscheduled).
__________________


WSNeo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2013-06-22, 09:02 AM   [Ignore Me] #15
NewSith
Contributor
Brigadier General
 
NewSith's Avatar
 
Re: "Higby pls" process explained


Originally Posted by Whiteagle View Post
Exactly, the reason we end up sounding so pissed off is that their are problems we've spotted from the outset that were NEVER adressed.
For instance, when do you think I drew this:
I bet I beat you to it:
Footholds Archetypes: "Food for Thought" (2012-06-14)
__________________

Originally Posted by CutterJohn View Post
Shields.. these are a decent compromise between the console jockeys that want recharging health, and the glorious pc gaming master race that generally doesn't.
NewSith is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply
  PlanetSide Universe > PlanetSide Discussions > PlanetSide 2 Discussion

Bookmarks

Discord

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:56 PM.

Content © 2002-2013, PlanetSide-Universe.com, All rights reserved.
PlanetSide and the SOE logo are registered trademarks of Sony Online Entertainment Inc. © 2004 Sony Online Entertainment Inc. All rights reserved.
All other trademarks or tradenames are properties of their respective owners.
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.