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Old 2013-09-17, 10:14 AM   [Ignore Me] #1
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"E-Sports - Good or bad for Planetside 2?" - ReachCast Episode 52 CQ


This weeks question is ...

“Does the E-Sports aspect of Planetside 2 enhance or detract from the game?”

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Last edited by Hamma; 2013-09-19 at 10:24 PM.
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Old 2013-09-17, 11:09 AM   [Ignore Me] #2
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Re: "E-Sports - Good or bad for Planetside 2?" - ReachCast Episode 52 CQ


Bad:
Takes away dev time
Good:
Attracts attention to game
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Old 2013-09-17, 11:17 AM   [Ignore Me] #3
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Re: "E-Sports - Good or bad for Planetside 2?" - ReachCast Episode 52 CQ


I think its all good. With the open world environment you get to fight against the mlg guys. The competition is kind of an end game for people to strive for. Once we get official matches it will bring a lot of publicity. And the battle islands which are designed for competitive play will be used in the open world to help bring us continental conquest.

There are too many positives to not want this.
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Old 2013-09-17, 12:19 PM   [Ignore Me] #4
Rahabib
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Re: "E-Sports - Good or bad for Planetside 2?" - ReachCast Episode 52 CQ


I consider myself a competitive player. However, as the details have come out, I get more and more pessimistic that it will work. If it wont work, its probably not worth the time - thus bad.

My biggest issue is that you will need at least 48 reliable active members who can compete. There was somthing on reddit showing that there are 108 teams that "can" compete, but I doubt more than 20 or so will, to start. If the game doesn't play well or people realize theres better competition elsewhere (less players required means more teams), expect that number to drop. BF4 may drain the pool since its a similar play style but far fewer numbers required.

Heres the problem with MLG:
1) only large teams can compete, 48v48 and even then if you have 60 members but only can get on 30 at any one time, its not good enough. So that limits its appeal to few teams. Right now, I think we can probably name 4-5 MLG caliber teams. If the talent gravitates only to the larger teams because you have to, it makes competition very lopsided and stale.

MLG could work out if they added to it. In addition, create 12v12 and smaller maps (1 base) would encourage far more teams to compete and probably even get more pros who don't want to be an online well wisher for competition. I am not saying it should replace the 48v48 but as another option - just like Quake has death match and team death match. Keep the 48v48 as the main show, but allow 12v12 in the gamebattles divisions.

2) Its a side show, and likely mainly for bragging rights. We haven't heard much about money or prizes but with a team of 48 its hard to split winnings.
3) Using online competitors will encourage some cheating. You cant watch 86 online players like a hawk. Unless you have a LOT of spectators as refs. You can detect blatant cheats but wall hacks are very difficult unless you can view the person's screen.
4) Theres still very little strategy to resources, management, or base capture choices. the lattice will help the flow and defensibility, but not much else. Currently the game is a bit to shallow to stand out from others apart from the amount of players.

For positives:
  1. Its publicity. More people. I guess that good, but for how long?
  2. I dont see it as a harm per-se, but also, don't see this lasting long term without some work.

In the mean time, things like resource revamp has been pushed for 6 months now (and counting)? Will we ever see server transfer tokens so that more team can start to form around talent rather than what's available on your server and faction?
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Old 2013-09-17, 12:37 PM   [Ignore Me] #5
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Re: "E-Sports - Good or bad for Planetside 2?" - ReachCast Episode 52 CQ


I do not believe SOE will find it is worth the effort being put into it. For it to be successful it needs commercial viability. In other words it needs to attract enough viewers for sponsors etc to be willing to invest in it for a return to be generated. We will have to see if after optimization and PS4/PS2 launch will the number of interested gamers in general increase, but as of now, no it is a waste of resources/money.

Last edited by Calista; 2013-09-17 at 12:39 PM.
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Old 2013-09-17, 02:45 PM   [Ignore Me] #6
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Re: "E-Sports - Good or bad for Planetside 2?" - ReachCast Episode 52 CQ


Have they provided any information regarding the format this is going to take, such as leagues/tournaments, timing: once a week, every other day?

Based on my experience with PS1 Outfit Wars (where I was a ringer in multiple outfits) and Global Agenda*, you are seriously going to struggle to keep interest/prevent burnout, not to mention the sheer logistics of requiring 96 people to be online, ready and have no interruptions for however long a 'match' lasts.

For your average 'outfit' one set 'time' per week is probably going to be either the maximum or minimum amount of time that everyone that wants to be involved will actually be able to be involved.

Otherwise depending on frequency/intensity you'll get teams as mentioned, dropping out and everyone that still wants to play consolidating into the few outfits remaining with the sheer numbers/ability to be fully manned, leaving 2 maybe 3 outfits per faction, or even worse, per server that can compete.

*Agency Vs Agency conquest was a map with 100 or so hexes that each Agency could bid on to either own or attack if someone else owned it (Each Hex was a 10v10 instanced match), at the start there were large populations, lots of Agencies and players, larger Agencies/Alliances usually had the larger share of the Hexes (there were times when you had 15+ alerts at once) but there was enough competition involved where little Agencies could sneak a couple hexes here and there. All fine and dandy, except the Conquest time was 4 hours... a night... 5 days a week.

As you can imagine, requiring 20 hours a week of constant vigilance, fighting on the same hexes against the same people over and over meant that interest fell off fast.
Agencies/Alliances disbanded through a combination or burnout, boredom and frustration.
Most of those that remained, joined the few larger Agencies that kept playing resulting in 90% of hexes being split between 2 maybe 3 large Alliances per zone. (of course there were a huge number of changes to hex management etc etc but the end result was still 2 Alliances being the only relevant ones on the map)

New Agencies wanting to get into AVA after this first 'war' then had the struggle of fighting vastly more experienced, larger and better equipped enemies.

EU servers were essentially a 1v1 alliance brawl and US was 1 large alliance sitting on everything needed to 'win' the map. All of this happened in the first 'season' which was ridiculously long (3 months or so).

They then broke up seasons into a couple weeks or just a weeks' duration but by then the large majority didn't play AVA anymore.
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Old 2013-09-17, 04:09 PM   [Ignore Me] #7
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Re: "E-Sports - Good or bad for Planetside 2?" - ReachCast Episode 52 CQ


I think it will be bad because it will force the game to go in a direction I don't like.
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Old 2013-09-17, 04:28 PM   [Ignore Me] #8
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Re: "E-Sports - Good or bad for Planetside 2?" - ReachCast Episode 52 CQ


Edit: I removed my entire first post, because my previous opinion was dumb.

I just watched RageQuit vs Sturmgrenadier in the Nexus, it was awesome. Great job, can't wait for the next one. Now I need to find a team.

Last edited by TimoWasTaken; 2013-09-19 at 02:47 PM. Reason: My opinion was dumb.
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Old 2013-09-17, 08:18 PM   [Ignore Me] #9
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Re: "E-Sports - Good or bad for Planetside 2?" - ReachCast Episode 52 CQ


That depends on how much it adds or detracts to/from the actual game.
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Old 2013-09-17, 08:24 PM   [Ignore Me] #10
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Re: "E-Sports - Good or bad for Planetside 2?" - ReachCast Episode 52 CQ


As an addition its great.
As a core focus its a terrible detriment to a game call Planetside.
Taking into consideration the use of resources better spent optimising game code/redesigning bases properly/introducing core game mechanics (cont lattice) it is overall a bad thing for the game at this stage in its life cycle.
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Old 2013-09-17, 08:27 PM   [Ignore Me] #11
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Re: "E-Sports - Good or bad for Planetside 2?" - ReachCast Episode 52 CQ


MLG is just not the type of arena for PS2. It doesn't meet the number requirements for the game (by number req I mean the amount of people following MLG events). Not to mention the proper spectator options lacking in the game itself.


But we'll just see how it goes with Nexus Community Clash in the following 13 hours. From what I understand, competitive PS2 will be more like an RTS with each unit controlled by a separate player, rather than a shooter in the wide sense of the word.
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Old 2013-09-17, 08:38 PM   [Ignore Me] #12
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Re: "E-Sports - Good or bad for Planetside 2?" - ReachCast Episode 52 CQ


I watch quite a bit of ps2 twitch streams, this game is amazing to watch. Then you get

great players like TwF who is a twisting cyclone gun ninja or Kudochop who will regularly

take on entire squads with just a pistol and DOMINATE. If at all they can pair the breadth

of this game and its teamwork while following and highlighting the work these incredible

players are doing then this mlg thing will do well.

You guys need to watch itzmurdas stream. This guy does amazing stuff. Start watching

Ps2 streams. Its like an epic war movie but you get to chat with the star.

Last edited by Sledgecrushr; 2013-09-17 at 08:41 PM. Reason: Hard to edit on the ipad
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Old 2013-09-17, 11:50 PM   [Ignore Me] #13
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Re: "E-Sports - Good or bad for Planetside 2?" - ReachCast Episode 52 CQ


Short term: bad
Splits community in half and detracts dev time for something that is potentially entertaining but atm rather boring to watch. I mean how many times can you see the same FCRW/NUC/TIW outfits perform the same max crash tactics every week over some base recorded by a crappy admin cam and feel entertained?

Long term: good (if it picks up)
There's a lot of spectator potential if the esports scene picks this one up and we get some real competition and professional coverage. The additional attention it generates is good for the longevity and development of the game.
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Old 2013-09-18, 03:01 AM   [Ignore Me] #14
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Re: "E-Sports - Good or bad for Planetside 2?" - ReachCast Episode 52 CQ


GOOD OR BAD

It will all depend , i did a videos mroe than 1 years ago trying to define how i would like to see the esports in planetside 2 ...

Battlefield ( scrim ) as kinda ruins the way to play battlefield in my opinion , for me 5 vs 5 formula as NO place in BF series as well as Ps2 .. but still the BF3 player bases as been drive into this ( scrim ) 5 vs 5 mentality

The already existing mindset for the Esports and this is whats peoples are use to , But Esports also have RTS competitive game

FPS and single players skills is all OK , but it become boring to watch compare to RTS games , thats offer more possibility and more strategies

So basically i was asking to have a ( manageable ) but still large scales MLG format , covered as a RTS mostly but also as a FPS 50 % 50 % . so the RTS elements whats i call the ( macro picture ) and also the squad micro managements on ( crucial push ) micro managements

So exactly like a RTS you can see the macro picture the ressources managements the bases build the moovements of the troops etc..

But you also get to see the micro managements of the units and it can goes to a few or even a single lasting units lol

So If planetside 2 formula remain ( platoon size ) and remain cover as a RTS / FPS it will be amasing for planetside

If the devs ceed to the already establish Esport fps mentality that smalls scales ensure true competition then Esports will become awefull and bad for the game

Planetside as to remains true to planetside that mean Competitive RTS with FPS elements or vice versa , the scale must be there the vehicules must be there the platoon stucture and macro management must be there and the squad / players micro management as well ...

Planetside along with battlefield ( bf 2 / bf 2142 ) in a smaller mesure are not just FPS where guys shoot each others in the face , its also a RTS format where strategie , positioning , vehicules air and ground but also infantry play come all in the balance and make the experience great

Here the video i made back in the day with my half broken english lol

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Old 2013-09-18, 03:30 AM   [Ignore Me] #15
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Re: "E-Sports - Good or bad for Planetside 2?" - ReachCast Episode 52 CQ


Originally Posted by NewSith View Post
MLG is just not the type of arena for PS2. It doesn't meet the number requirements for the game (by number req I mean the amount of people following MLG events). Not to mention the proper spectator options lacking in the game itself.


But we'll just see how it goes with Nexus Community Clash in the following 13 hours. From what I understand, competitive PS2 will be more like an RTS with each unit controlled by a separate player, rather than a shooter in the wide sense of the word.
I think the MLG format as it is fit exactly whith whats ive ask 1 years ago , and tis the way it should be i would not like to see the devs to ceed to the peoples who say 48 players is to high to compeate etc..

48 / 48 players is barely something for planetside and its the minimum i will suport

I dont want to see 12 vs 12 or 5 vs 5 type of match in planetside 2 MLG , i want thing to change and grow , iam sick of the already establish FPS mind set of MLG where competition as to be 1 vs 1 2 vs 2 5 vs 5

planetside 2 isnt just a FPS its a RTS as well and should be cover as that , peoples always cry about how team work is important , Ps2 is a great reflexion of that , strategies are important , but individual skilled players who can acomplish this strategies is also important , and the team cohesion is a level never seen before at MLG and this is where it become more exiting than ever

these 48 vs 48 format are awesome , leader as to have great strategies , but players as to have great coordination and skills to acomplish those , so it will be thrilling as hell so see these competition live or to participate in one

planetside 2 migth revolutionize Esports if its well done , atm peoples dont really get how to cover planetside 2 properly because the tool arent there yet and the technique to cover planetside 2 havent been define yet in a proper format , but iam confident this will come along . comentator will get better at comenting Ps2 and the cover will get better and better as well as the competitive team will also get use to it and will also get better

As long as Ps2 remain true to ps2 and dont try to be Quake . conterstrike , cod etc.. It will be all good for the game
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