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Old 2013-11-02, 10:00 AM   [Ignore Me] #31
Blynd
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Re: Balance Pass Post 1: Vehicle Weapons and the Harasser


Originally Posted by Plaqueis View Post
I'll just drop this here

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...=sharing#gid=0

They're a month old, but i doubt anything has changed.
oh dear i do hope that shuts up the "its fine " brigade. harrisser is fun but is op and needs these changes so hopefully it will find its place between the lightening and MTB's cause atm you pull a harriser instead of a mtb because its faster its more powerful and can soak up more damage then a mtb. With these changes it should be where it was intended.

I also fear that the empire specific buggys are ready soon so its time to nerf the harrasser and its weapons for the next VOTM.
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Old 2013-11-02, 02:08 PM   [Ignore Me] #32
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Re: Balance Pass Post 1: Vehicle Weapons and the Harasser


Originally Posted by Blynd View Post
oh dear i do hope that shuts up the "its fine " brigade. harrisser is fun but is op and needs these changes so hopefully it will find its place between the lightening and MTB's cause atm you pull a harriser instead of a mtb because its faster its more powerful and can soak up more damage then a mtb. With these changes it should be where it was intended.

I also fear that the empire specific buggys are ready soon so its time to nerf the harrasser and its weapons for the next VOTM.
Well, i posted it mostly for those who claimed that empire specific Harrasser weapons are equal... I even saw some dude say that Saron and Enforcer are better than Vulcan.
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Old 2013-11-02, 02:15 PM   [Ignore Me] #33
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Re: Balance Pass Post 1: Vehicle Weapons and the Harasser


Yeah the Marauder - Fury stats are roughly similar although the numbers are even larger given they're hunting mostly infantry instead of vehicles. Although I recall them saying they'll be nerfing the marauder namely because it's as if they forgot to nerf it when they nerfed the fury.
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Old 2013-11-02, 02:21 PM   [Ignore Me] #34
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Re: Balance Pass Post 1: Vehicle Weapons and the Harasser


Ive been moaning/cursing about vulcan harrasers for months on voice comms, my outfit mates will be relieved to finally get a respite from my strings of expletives related to them

Ive watched a single Vulcan harraser chew up 4 (admittedly stock) mags in a row, it is utter BS that a buggy is able to beat the crap out of any armour that isn't an experienced MBT driver/gunner running AP.
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Old 2013-11-02, 02:39 PM   [Ignore Me] #35
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Re: Balance Pass Post 1: Vehicle Weapons and the Harasser


Vulcan Harrassers are badass yeh but the Saron Harrasser is certainly a formidable foe too. I think what they need to do is make the armor weaker. Leave the weapons and speed as it is but make them get f**ked up easy like a buggy should.
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Old 2013-11-02, 02:40 PM   [Ignore Me] #36
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Re: Balance Pass Post 1: Vehicle Weapons and the Harasser


Originally Posted by Sardus View Post
Ugh, I was really hoping that the ZOE would be one of the first things that they tweak after the optimization patch.

But any kind of balance patch is a good one. So glad to see they are working on them.
You know I always used to feel kind of guilty using anything that was supposedly OP like the ZoE, but when im facing striker locks, fracture MAX's and Vulcan harassers the guilty feeling quickly evaporates
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Old 2013-11-02, 02:44 PM   [Ignore Me] #37
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Re: Balance Pass Post 1: Vehicle Weapons and the Harasser


Originally Posted by PredatorFour View Post
Vulcan Harrassers are badass yeh but the Saron Harrasser is certainly a formidable foe too. I think what they need to do is make the armor weaker. Leave the weapons and speed as it is but make them get f**ked up easy like a buggy should.
Saron harrasers may be good, but 46794 Vulcan kills to 10788 Saron kills over a 9 day sample period shows they are not even in the same ball park.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...=sharing#gid=0
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Old 2013-11-02, 04:00 PM   [Ignore Me] #38
maradine
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Re: Balance Pass Post 1: Vehicle Weapons and the Harasser


Originally Posted by Shamrock View Post
Saron harrasers may be good, but 46794 Vulcan kills to 10788 Saron kills over a 9 day sample period shows they are not even in the same ball park.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...=sharing#gid=0
That's largely popularity talking - the Saron-H and Vulcan-H don't produce all that differently per person. I think the more important balance fulcrums here are the Harasser vs. the MBT vs. the soldier - once that's been rejiggered a bit we can dive back in on the individual loadouts.

Except for the Enforcer pair, of course.
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Old 2013-11-02, 05:42 PM   [Ignore Me] #39
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Re: Balance Pass Post 1: Vehicle Weapons and the Harasser


Originally Posted by Shamrock View Post
Saron harrasers may be good, but 46794 Vulcan kills to 10788 Saron kills over a 9 day sample period shows they are not even in the same ball park.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...=sharing#gid=0
If you have about 4 times the number of users, you best have about 4 times the number of kills. Kill total is rather pointless cross factions but might be something to look into when just talking about a single faction.

The things I see that need looked at in that link is the massive amount of users for TR and how the KPU scales with BR. But this is just 3 weapons out of 20ish. Then you have outside factors that effect some factions vehicles more than others like infantry weapons.

Not just Strikers, all ESAV weapons for infantry and MAXes. TR have a good lock-on and easy to use Fractures, VS get Lancers and Vortexes that you almost can't miss with, and NC have slow guided Phoenixes and Ravens with max range capped at 300m-350m. Accounting for those weapons it's no wonder why NC vehicle weapons are under performing next to other factions.

You tend to loose details when focusing on parts of data. Big picture and all. Even though that term kinda counters itself. Looking at a big picture or painting blurs out the details and focusing shows those details. Looking at data is more or less the exact opposite of that.
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Old 2013-11-02, 09:20 PM   [Ignore Me] #40
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Re: Balance Pass Post 1: Vehicle Weapons and the Harasser


Originally Posted by Chewy View Post
If you have about 4 times the number of users, you best have about 4 times the number of kills. Kill total is rather pointless cross factions but might be something to look into when just talking about a single faction.

The things I see that need looked at in that link is the massive amount of users for TR and how the KPU scales with BR. But this is just 3 weapons out of 20ish. Then you have outside factors that effect some factions vehicles more than others like infantry weapons.

Not just Strikers, all ESAV weapons for infantry and MAXes. TR have a good lock-on and easy to use Fractures, VS get Lancers and Vortexes that you almost can't miss with, and NC have slow guided Phoenixes and Ravens with max range capped at 300m-350m. Accounting for those weapons it's no wonder why NC vehicle weapons are under performing next to other factions.

You tend to loose details when focusing on parts of data. Big picture and all. Even though that term kinda counters itself. Looking at a big picture or painting blurs out the details and focusing shows those details. Looking at data is more or less the exact opposite of that.
Lancer? Seriously?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...=sharing#gid=0

Vortexes are good after you buy them on both hands and buy ZOE on top. 1 Vortex without ZOE is just as pathetic as Lancer is. Being able to hit stuff means nothing if you can't do damage.

And btw, the Phoenix might be slow but atleast it's guided and hits like a hammer.
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Old 2013-11-02, 11:18 PM   [Ignore Me] #41
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Re: Balance Pass Post 1: Vehicle Weapons and the Harasser


Lancers are great when used in large enough numbers to instakill anything they hit. That's not really something that stats can show.
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Old 2013-11-03, 01:24 AM   [Ignore Me] #42
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Re: Balance Pass Post 1: Vehicle Weapons and the Harasser


Originally Posted by Plaqueis View Post
Lancer? Seriously?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...=sharing#gid=0

Vortexes are good after you buy them on both hands and buy ZOE on top. 1 Vortex without ZOE is just as pathetic as Lancer is. Being able to hit stuff means nothing if you can't do damage.

And btw, the Phoenix might be slow but atleast it's guided and hits like a hammer.
Lancers/Vortexes are good at AV. They just lack in raw killing power. Id rather have a Lancer (or railgun to fit NC lore) than a Striker or Phoenix to be honest. The rare time I do play HA I mainly use the Phoenix to scout or just keep a Hawk for AA and dumbfire, maybe use a deci if I need the extra punch.

Phoenix hits like a truck, but has some very hard negatives.
1, its DPS is shit from not only needing a normal reload time but you have to add travel time to that as well. It can be up to a 20 second fire time, it's better to try and hit the repairman than the vehicle. If you don't you're just feeding him endless repair points as he out heals any damage you can do, un-certed at times.

2, it has both a min and ever changing max range. Want to use it in cover? Then you have at least a 40m-100m min range gap to guide around that cover depending on the covers size. Also you cut your max range with every turn. That means your cover shooting lowers the max range to maybe 200m-250m if that on standing targets, less if they are moving. At most you'll get 290m if your target is standing still and your in the open.

3, you're completely defenseless when using it. The best you can do is duck down for a smaller hit box. You can't move, can't see, can't hear, can't know anything around you without it hurting you. Iv had players stand in my face to ***** me after returning to my body and I had no way to know till it was to late.

4, it is near impossible to hit moving targets. Doable yes, but only with luck. Infantry aren't to hard to follow and lead, but a moving vehicle takes a lot of luck and/or great timing.


Strikers now that they need to keep a lock have a much lower DPS but still can do good damage on any vehicle they wish. It's annoying to maintain a lock but it's better than the Phoenix thanks to longer range and no need to worry about a anything but tracking. You can still bug out at any moment you hear a cloak or something. No dumbfire though is a big negative, but a 500m range and a short lock timer makes up for that I think.


Then we have Lancers. You see it, you hurt it just about. If those things didn't have low damage then it would be beyond OP. If a Lancer wants your vehicle dead there is nothing you can do but keeping it 100% behind cover. Leave any part exposed and you're getting hit. No other weapon can just make things go POOF without a single warning when used in a team. No need to even charge it, just pepper something and it will run for cover. Not even a turbo Harasser can do much to avoid Lancer fire. The biggest downside is the low damage that gives drivers time to bail, a good trade if you ask me.


I main as a support player. Even when I play as a non support class I can't help but support in any way I can. Recon cloaker, scouting heavy, shield wall MAX, and Im just not into LA so that class is ignored. Given my playstyle it might have been better for me to be VS from all of those GREAT support weapons. But their lore is a crap reason for me to fight and I can't stand those colors. Love the weapons, hate the faction and if this game had PS1 inventory Id be trading for those weapons so I can use them. Hell a Lasher is my biggest fear as a NC MAX under C4. Fire a few times at the foot of a door and it is going to hit me from the lack of range with shotguns.

Meet some rouge VS trooper in a common field. I drop my payment, he drops his goods. We both walk away happy.
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Old 2013-11-03, 01:38 PM   [Ignore Me] #43
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Re: Balance Pass Post 1: Vehicle Weapons and the Harasser


Originally Posted by ChipMHazard View Post
Lancers are great when used in large enough numbers to instakill anything they hit. That's not really something that stats can show.
Ehh.. can't afford committing a platoon worth of infantry just for Lancer duty on every fight, we're constantly outnumbered as it is...

About Chewys wall of text; for each his own i guess, i'll stick to the Nemesis. I bought the Lancer when it came, tried it few times and gave up, haven't used it since. I don't have the LAsher and probably never will, as i can't see any use for it.

Last edited by Plaqueis; 2013-11-03 at 01:39 PM.
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Old 2013-11-03, 06:31 PM   [Ignore Me] #44
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Re: Balance Pass Post 1: Vehicle Weapons and the Harasser


Doesn't seem like any chance that the relative effectiveness of empire specific top mount vehicle weapons will be addressed.
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Old 2013-11-03, 10:18 PM   [Ignore Me] #45
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Re: Balance Pass Post 1: Vehicle Weapons and the Harasser


Originally Posted by Plaqueis View Post
Ehh.. can't afford committing a platoon worth of infantry just for Lancer duty on every fight, we're constantly outnumbered as it is...
If by that you mean about a squad's worth (8-10). Of course that's for instakilling MBTs (not from the rear), half as many would be able to seriously damage MBTs.
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