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Old 2012-07-07, 05:05 PM   [Ignore Me] #91
Buggsy
Sergeant Major
 
Re: Planetside 2 Classes vs Certs


Infantry combat in PS1 is superior to COD infantry combat, why are they changing it?
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Old 2012-07-07, 05:18 PM   [Ignore Me] #92
Littleman
First Lieutenant
 
Re: Planetside 2 Classes vs Certs


Originally Posted by Kezz View Post
Apart from the fact that they've already said the medic will be able to run and gun with the rest of the posse... As it is, Medic is going to have to hang back because they'll be the only one able to heal, and they can kiss any chance to run and gun goodbye (which is the devs missing the point). And if your Medic goes down, that's "bye bye" to the squad. Or will you be gimping the squad's combat power and bringing 2 or 3 Medics?
YES! Welcome to the concept of give and take! And no, the dev's didn't miss the point: the medic clearly has a weapon, they can and should fight too.

It's a good thing SOE is in charge of development. No, really. If it weren't for PS1, we wouldn't really be having this discussion right now, there'd be no prior inventory system to desperately cling onto.
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Old 2012-07-07, 05:46 PM   [Ignore Me] #93
roguy
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Re: Planetside 2 Classes vs Certs


Originally Posted by Kezz View Post
1) Someone would say it's a small example and therefore invalid.
2) those who cavail miss the point that it's not about the armour or the jets, it's about the principle, as I said, of having something underlying that controls what people can do.
1) First off, your example isn't invalid because it's small, it's invalid because it's stupid, it's also invalid because there's no way to make it work with as much diversity as there is in PS2. We havn't even addressed what potential benefit there is to your system other than your claim that "something players really enjoy doing" wich is shaky at best, as shown by me and other posters in this thread.

2) Then rethink your idea, then we'll see if it can hold up to the armour and jets example, wich was just an example. Your principle doesn't work, otherwise you'd be explaining to me how to solve it.


Originally Posted by Kezz View Post
Classes also become exponentially more complicated to balance as you add them
No they don't, because in the class system all you have to do to sort out a balance issue would be to raise/decrease the classes overall effectiveness.
Rather than discover that HA+Healing combo is broken, then being trapped because whatever change you apply will have a domino effect on all other armours/abilities/combinations in the game (such as LA+Healing or HA+shield). You failed to figure that out last time i gave you examples, concentrate and maybe this time you'll figure it out.

Originally Posted by Kezz View Post
, and there will always be someone who claims class x is useless or overpowered and often they'll be right.
Sweeping generalisation fail.
Battlefield and TF2 seem to be doing just fine by the way.

Originally Posted by Kezz View Post
Or you could recognise that you don't need 6 armour types. That's what PS2 has. Ps1 had 4 (really 3 when you're talking about choices; did anyone seriously prefer Basic over Agile?) plus MAX.
Then your game sucks for having less variety then, but that's irrelevant since balancing 6 classes is ridiculously easier than 70 or 40 or any number above, y'know, 6.

Originally Posted by Kezz View Post
If you have mass, affecting how far JJets get you, you maybe make the Ammo pack heavier, so it gimps the Jets for that combo. And maybe add some nano consumption for it too. I notice that you've automatically assumed there will be a separate "LA" armour type, when I included no such thing in my example. Well done on the reading comprehension and suspending your own biases.
We are on the PS2 discussion forums arn't we? It's pretty hard for me to test out your "principle" when you keep it as vague as possible.

If your theory doesn't have LAs, does it have MAX suits then? Because considering the mass they'd be pretty shit with jetpacks, so what's the point in giving it to them in the first place? But yeah, that's how the Tribes franchise did it and everything other than light armor sucked donkey balls in the first 3 iterations until they *finnally* added classes in the 4th. Hey it's your idea, so instead of letting me try to sort out your gaps in logic for you, gimme a specific example.

Originally Posted by Kezz View Post
There are dozens of adequately balanced classless (and mostly level-less) rulesets out there, that you're obviously unware of, from simple ones starting with 6 points and 50-odd different skills to 400 page rulebooks with 100s of points to spend.
Then give examples. I showed you how shit Eve Online was in this regard already.


Originally Posted by Kezz View Post
There's a new MMORPG out which is classless, and has effectively got ...
What MMO? And let me guess, it isn't PVP is it?


Originally Posted by Kezz View Post
As it is, Medic is going to have to hang back because they'll be the only one able to heal, and they can kiss any chance to run and gun goodbye (which is the devs missing the point).
You've never played a Battlefield game have you?

Last edited by roguy; 2012-07-07 at 05:54 PM.
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Old 2012-07-07, 06:02 PM   [Ignore Me] #94
Dir
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Re: Planetside 2 Classes vs Certs


Originally Posted by Buggsy View Post
Infantry combat in PS1 is superior to COD infantry combat, why are they changing it?
I don't mind them changing it so long as it works and people are happy with it after they have gotten to know it. What I would mind is if the same inflexibility many of us feel toward change also manifested itself in the people we are relying on to bring us a product that will keep our interest in the coming decade.

Why are they changing it? I don't know...and I don't care as long as it works but if it's clear it doesn't work? Please change it back.

Dir
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Old 2012-07-07, 07:29 PM   [Ignore Me] #95
ChookWantan
Corporal
 
Re: Planetside 2 Classes vs Certs


COD IS NOT A CLASS BASED GAME. I'm not a huge fan of the game, but let's at least be correct when we refer to things. COD gives you the freedom to customize your character to your hearts content. BF, however, is a class based game.
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Old 2012-07-08, 03:52 AM   [Ignore Me] #96
Marinealver
Sergeant Major
 
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Re: Planetside 2 Classes vs Certs


Yeah in PS1 you could easily ID yourself with whatever you specalized in, Such as a Gal Pilot or a Tank Driver ect. but people did exploit it into a 1 Man Army.

PS1 sort of looses that but you still can specilize in other things. Like a dedicated tanker would cert in all tank modifications and upgrades (even pay some real $$$ for a ingame paint job) while the jack of all trades won't have a trickout tank or gun or uniform but will simply spread his certs across the board.
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