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Old 2012-07-17, 12:53 PM   [Ignore Me] #31
Figment
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Re: PlanetSide 2 Walkthrough and Cinematic Trailer


Originally Posted by Raymac View Post
It sounds like the devs' goal is to make it less static than PS1, quickening the pace of the game.

I can respect that you are an expert and a big fan of WoT, but of all the gameplay reviews we've heard so far, I can't say that I've heard anyone compare it to WoT. To me, that kind of diminishes the importance of that comparison.
I'm not really a big fan of WoT (at least not of most their tiering match making system, large power distance inter-player balance, overal grind, monetization method (buying high tier tanks), lack of community design and relatively small scale, to name a few points of critique).

Mainly play it to keep up my driving skills. I miss the dynamic and social PS1 combat and I've often suggested to decrease static accuracy and nerf detection of lighter units. Multiple players in one tank is not and can't ever be an option in WoT, sadly, but it's extremely well possible in PS2.

The majority of the WoT playerbase is Russian and European, so that wouldn't strike me as odd either. Though the ones that do play tend to see the overlap and can easily and directly port and utilise PS1 skills in WoT, despite the two being "two completely different games". The other way around is also possible. More so now that PS2 also adds some camouflage and stealth to PS game play.

Essentially, you are making some pretty broad conclusions that are at odds with the stated goals of the devs. So either, you are far more intelligent than the entire dev staff combined because you are able to make conclusions over fractional views of the gameplay instead of the constant work the devs do, OR you are being a bit of a Sheldon Cooper and are so convinced you can never be incorrect that your perceptions just reinforce your prejudged conclusions.
Consider that a dev team is just human, not everyone in the entire dev team is involved in design decisions and just executes them and it basically comes down to choices made.

Not every choice will be good.

Did you and others not say that PS1 had a lot of flaws? How can you say that? You've never been involved in the alpha! You've never been involved in the decision making process! Surely they knew way better than you what they were making back then?

How is that different now? They say they gained a lot of experience over the course of 9 years of PlanetSide. I ask how this is possible, since the majority of them have not been involved with PlanetSide for 7-8 years of them and the ones that have been (Brewko) are responsible for Lasher 2.0 rebalance, Reaver rebalance, Black Ops, Phantasm with 12mm gun, Galaxy Gunship v1 and v2, BR40 with extra certifications (that nobody wanted and they promised not to add) and for the fast majority of the time - since 2005, we've had only a few people directly involved with developing the game for more than a few days per year: Beady, who was good and got us the CE expansion, but then quickly left for another job, EnricoPallazzo, who left quicker than he got back, Raijinn, who could never get assistance from SOE for development support and eventually got fired yet was the only one who kinda understood and had the longest term experience in playing PS1 and working with the community, and Brewko, who... we... all... love... and... adore... >___>

Meanwhile, I've been playing that game throughout that time as outfit leader of a multi-crew vehicle outfit, inter-outfit coordinator and empire leader until a short period after the Werner merger (where the community went down real quick). I'm quite sure I'm a bit more aware of how it's played and what is fun than they are given the design rationales they give that don't agree with a lot of things we say. And yes, in some cases I can more easily see the impact in certain design decisions than people who've predominantly worked on PvE MMO design. In other cases, I reserve judgment and think it works fine. There's around 15-20 points I strongly disagree with decisions made. Is that unreasonable?

Now if I was the only one. Sure, but I'm far from the only one. I'm not saying I've got the best opinion at all times, however, so far, everything I've heard from people who actually played the beta at E3, SOE Live and from what I've seen, ALL confirm what I say and others took for random assumptions. So honestly, I don't much care for people who never dare make assumptions, because they're the last people who can make a difference for the better: their feedback will always be far too late.

And besides, even if knowledge is available in the team, who's to say it actually is used?
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Old 2012-07-17, 12:54 PM   [Ignore Me] #32
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Re: Vehicle Combat Feedback


Moved your post Captain, moved it into it's own thread
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Old 2012-07-17, 12:55 PM   [Ignore Me] #33
Raymac
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Re: Vehicle Combat Feedback


Originally Posted by Hamma View Post
I can second that collision damage is silly as of the filming.
Oh, so the collision damage was still really high? OK. So that means Figment's calculations competely don't hold water. Thanks for clearing that up, Hamma.

EDIT:
Originally Posted by Figment View Post
Meanwhile, I've been playing that game throughout that time as outfit leader of a multi-crew vehicle outfit, inter-outfit coordinator and empire leader until a short period after the Werner merger (where the community went down real quick). I'm quite sure I'm a bit more aware of how it's played and what is fun than they are given the design rationales they give that don't agree with a lot of things we say. And yes, in some cases I can more easily see the impact in certain design decisions than people who've predominantly worked on PvE MMO design. In other cases, I reserve judgment and think it works fine. There's around 15-20 points I strongly disagree with decisions made. Is that unreasonable?

And besides, even if knowledge is available in the team, who's to say it actually is used?
Well, with a resume like that, I'm shocked they havn't hired you. You are right. What do game designers know about designing a game. It's only their career. It's like how a football team should really hire the people that call into talk radio because they know sooo much more about the team than the coaches. I mean, Higby, T-Ray, and Smed never played PS1 very much, so what would they know.

They really should ignore their playtests and demos and listen to you because you are 100% positive that the gameplay will be as stagnant and boring as a Louisiana swamp.
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Last edited by Raymac; 2012-07-17 at 01:11 PM.
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Old 2012-07-17, 12:55 PM   [Ignore Me] #34
GuyFawkes
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Re: PlanetSide 2 Walkthrough and Cinematic Trailer


great stuff

I was wondering Hamma, when you were piloting the mossie, is there a way to tone down the brightness of the cockpit graphics. Felt a bit like a rabbit staring at headlights during the night.
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Old 2012-07-17, 12:56 PM   [Ignore Me] #35
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Re: Vehicle Combat Feedback


I'm not sure I did not look.
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Old 2012-07-17, 12:57 PM   [Ignore Me] #36
Figment
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Re: Vehicle Combat Feedback


PS: @Hamma, sorry for the derail.
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Old 2012-07-17, 12:57 PM   [Ignore Me] #37
Figment
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Re: Vehicle Combat Feedback


Originally Posted by Raymac View Post
Oh, so the collision damage was still really high? OK. So that means Figment's calculations competely don't hold water. Thanks for clearing that up, Hamma.
He did not say he took damage from a rock, just that collission damage was high.
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Old 2012-07-17, 12:57 PM   [Ignore Me] #38
MrBloodworth
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Re: PlanetSide 2 Walkthrough and Cinematic Trailer


Originally Posted by GuyFawkes View Post
great stuff

I was wondering Hamma, when you were piloting the mossie, is there a way to tone down the brightness of the cockpit graphics. Felt a bit like a rabbit staring at headlights during the night.
It was rather bright. Especially at night.

WTB HUD Light sensor and dimmer switch!
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Old 2012-07-17, 01:00 PM   [Ignore Me] #39
EisenKreutzer
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Re: Vehicle Combat Feedback


Originally Posted by Figment View Post
@Hamma's vid, starting 4:30.

Did I see correctly that the *stationary* Lightning took out your *stationary* full health Prowler in 2.5 salvos of 4 or 5 shots to the side and the Lightning itself started to smoke heavily after just one double shot salvo? Meaning making someone miss or catching off guard makes you equal to a MBT and if it had been two or three solo tanks you'd have died in one salvo? Meaning that even if you had had an AV gunner (while you're probably going to bring an AA gunner), after one salvo you might have killed one of two or three, but by then they'd have already killed you with the LIGHTEST, CHEAPEST tanks?

And how was that on par with what we've seen in more recently taped footage? The same... And with so many guns to change after they've painstackingly tried to balance them through alpha... Yeah right.



Goodbye TankGunnerSide teamvehicles, hello TankSoloSide AV MBTs + AA Lightning teams (as predicted...). No need for gunners if you're just going to get torn apart.

Goodbye DynamicCombat, hello StaticCombat. Without gunners, combat is going to be stationary every time tanks encounter enemies so they can line up a nice shot without hitting rocks or getting stuck and become pretty easy targets (as predicted...).


Doom! DOOM!

Honestly, while I did scratch my head at it a little, this sort of thing will be hammered out in the beta.

Complaining about balance issues based on a video showing a pre-beta build isn't really productive. None of what we saw in that video is final. This stuff will be tweaked and polished until it all works smoothly and the way the devs intended, based in no small part on our feedback and criticism during the beta which has not started yet!

Breathe slowly and find your happy place. All will be well. ^^

Last edited by EisenKreutzer; 2012-07-17 at 01:02 PM. Reason: Added quote.
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Old 2012-07-17, 01:08 PM   [Ignore Me] #40
Raymac
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Re: Vehicle Combat Feedback


Originally Posted by Figment View Post
He did not say he took damage from a rock, just that collission damage was high.
Well, what was that kill screen that said he took damage from 2 VS and from himself then?

Also, I edited my previous post in response to one of yours you wrote as I was typing.
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Old 2012-07-17, 01:13 PM   [Ignore Me] #41
MrBloodworth
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Re: Vehicle Combat Feedback


I noticed Hammas tank was well on to being dead before he knew about that lightning.
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Old 2012-07-17, 01:17 PM   [Ignore Me] #42
Figment
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Re: Vehicle Combat Feedback


Originally Posted by Raymac View Post
Well, what was that kill screen that said he took damage from 2 VS and from himself then?

Also, I edited my previous post in response to one of yours you wrote as I was typing.
That's all well and nice, but I believe I was the first to denote he took some damage from a rock, so that's actually taken into account. =p

And from the looks of it, it wasn't much. Look at how much damage each single hit does. You can't pretend the calculations "don't hold water" if you can't indicate that it made a significant difference to the calculations.


If you a closer look instead of being very full of yourself, you'd have seen that in the death statistics, it clearly states that one Lightning did 9% damage, the other Lightning did 88% damage leaving a whopping 3% damage (which isn't even mentioned) due to collission damage by Hamma's driving.


So yeah, ONE Lightning basically took him out.

Your turn? Yes, I do believe it was.

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth View Post
I noticed Hammas tank was well on to being dead before he knew about that lightning.
Yeah, first salvo did around 35% damage I'd say.
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Old 2012-07-17, 01:21 PM   [Ignore Me] #43
MrBloodworth
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Re: Vehicle Combat Feedback


Personally, I would hold off until we can do 1 v 1 testing in a controlled environment.
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Old 2012-07-17, 01:23 PM   [Ignore Me] #44
twistnlick
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Re: Vehicle Combat Feedback


Originally Posted by MrBloodworth View Post
I noticed Hammas tank was well on to being dead before he knew about that lightning.
There is no attempt at evasion, moving behind cover, withdraw, or any indication that any of this is even possible because of how quick the encounter begins/ends. It just seems like a slug-fest of who-saw-who first and who's tank was pointed the right way. (As of RIGHT NOW, maybe later on a better tank driver/gunner can do different)

Last edited by twistnlick; 2012-07-17 at 01:24 PM.
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Old 2012-07-17, 01:27 PM   [Ignore Me] #45
Raymac
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Re: Vehicle Combat Feedback


Originally Posted by Figment View Post
That's all well and nice, but I believe I was the first to denote he took some damage from a rock, so that's actually taken into account. =p

And from the looks of it, it wasn't much. Look at how much damage each single hit does. You can't pretend the calculations "don't hold water" if you can't indicate that it made a significant difference to the calculations.


If you a closer look instead of being very full of yourself, you'd have seen that in the death statistics, it clearly states that one Lightning did 9% damage, the other Lightning did 88% damage leaving a whopping 3% damage (which isn't even mentioned) due to collission damage by Hamma's driving.


So yeah, ONE Lightning basically took him out.

Your turn? Yes, I do believe it was.
Good catch. I didn't notice the percentages first time around.

I guess the moral to this story is to bring a secondary gunner to help you spot and kill the Lightning much like the Magrider did to Higby's Lightning during his playtest stream. So it's not a good idea to let a Lightning fire round and round right up your ass.

It's good to know directional damage is important so that you will try to manuever to get to somebody's rear instead of being stagnant and not move at all.
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