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Old 2013-06-23, 09:42 PM   [Ignore Me] #31
Whiteagle
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Re: reintroduce the ANT


Originally Posted by Rivenshield View Post
The *Aerial* Nanite Transport would solve that problem handily.
Nah, the Difference between the ANT and the NAT was that the ANT had three separate Nanite Tanks for Resources, while the NAT only has one...

Hence Advanced Nanite Transport and Nanite Aerial Transport...
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Old 2013-06-24, 12:09 PM   [Ignore Me] #32
MrMak
Sergeant Major
 
Re: reintroduce the ANT


Apart from smaller capacity the NAT shoudl have other downsides so its actualy practical to use the ANT.

Im thinking high resource cost and only being pullable from Tech Plants and Warpgates, like the galaxy.

Otherwise it might jsut be better to pull 3 NATs instead.
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Old 2013-06-24, 01:52 PM   [Ignore Me] #33
Roderick
Corporal
 
Re: reintroduce the ANT


Give the ANT a rewarding and balanced level of experience gain to the player and you will have multiple players automatically volunteering to get Nanites versus "being forced" as mentioned.

Also figure out how to transport one in a Galaxy like in PlanetSide 1. One of the cooler little features missing out of the Galaxy in PlanetSide 2.
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Old 2013-06-24, 07:17 PM   [Ignore Me] #34
Edfishy
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Re: reintroduce the ANT


Give the ANT a rewarding and balanced level of experience gain to the player and you will have multiple players automatically volunteering to get Nanites versus "being forced" as mentioned.
Worked in Planetside 1.

Apart from smaller capacity the NAT shoudl have other downsides so its actualy practical to use the ANT.

Im thinking high resource cost and only being pullable from Tech Plants and Warpgates, like the galaxy.

Otherwise it might jsut be better to pull 3 NATs instead.
Could also be the fact that the NAT is slow, lumbering, and can be blown out of the sky easy. Give the ANT some all-terrain 6-wheel crawler action and I'm sure it'd be the vehicle of choice.






Edit: ... You could also have NAT's only carry 'emergency resources', with a maximum fill potential (regardless of how many NAT's you bring) of 10%. It can potentially be gamed, but at the very least you've got more airtime for the queuing NAT's to be blown up.
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Last edited by Edfishy; 2013-06-24 at 07:31 PM.
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Old 2013-06-24, 11:20 PM   [Ignore Me] #35
Whiteagle
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Re: reintroduce the ANT


Originally Posted by MrMak View Post
Apart from smaller capacity the NAT shoudl have other downsides so its actualy practical to use the ANT.
Well the idea was to still have three different Resources like we have now, but using the old Beta cost distributions.
So every base would have a Catalysts, Alloys, and Polymers Silo from which the players various purchases at that Base would be drawn.

This way, we not only allow the specialised play styles the ability to use all three Resources instead of just one, it gives a practial difference to the two Nanite Transports.

The ANT is ground-bound and less manivuerable, but can carry all the Nanites needed to restock a small Outpost.
The NAT can fly, but only has a single tank able to carry enough of one type of Resource to fill a single Small Outpost Silo.

Of course the thing I think that will set these apart from their Original counterpart is their Nanite Syphoning ability, which not only allows them to pick up "residual" Resources from specific points on the Pipeline during the Ticks but also offensively DRAIN a Base's Silos.

Thus these two will live up to their Namesakes; Annoying pest that need to be dealt with least they make off with all your goods!
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Old 2013-06-25, 08:49 AM   [Ignore Me] #36
moosepoop
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Re: reintroduce the ANT


im thinking three types of resources can randomly spawn in areas near the center of the map as different colored crystals. esfs will scout for them, and ANT drives over to mine them. when the resources is collected the crystals disappear.

what made ANT in ps1 boring was that the resources was away from the combat zone. if you put resources in a contested area and have players fight over it, it makes more exciting ANT play.

Last edited by moosepoop; 2013-06-25 at 08:53 AM.
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Old 2013-06-25, 10:47 AM   [Ignore Me] #37
Whiteagle
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Re: reintroduce the ANT


Originally Posted by moosepoop View Post
im thinking three types of resources can randomly spawn in areas near the center of the map as different colored crystals. esfs will scout for them, and ANT drives over to mine them. when the resources is collected the crystals disappear.

what made ANT in ps1 boring was that the resources was away from the combat zone. if you put resources in a contested area and have players fight over it, it makes more exciting ANT play.
No, I actually like that controlling Bases and Territory is what earns you the Resources...
I mean, it ties well with why these three Factions would constantly fight over the same two Outpost at either end of a Box Canyon; Those two locations give them more Resources to continue fighting this Forever War.

This was also my attempt at a justification for the Lattice back in Beta, the Bases would be built on an Ancient Tech Nanite Pipeline.

As for giving the ANT a more action oriented role, using Resources as NTU allows us to bring back the Neutralization Mechanic, and both Nanite Transports will be able to DRAW from Silos as well as deposit into them.
That means we not only have Logistics, but Spec Ops can go around Ninja-ing them from behind Enemy Lines.

I can see where you are going with actively collecting Crystals, but that might be problematic...

If their placement was randomly generated, then we might have issues with them spawning in improper places.
Set points work, but I had already included something like that with drawing "residual" Resources out from the hackable "Safety Valves" located on long stretches of Pipe.
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Old 2013-06-25, 10:52 AM   [Ignore Me] #38
moosepoop
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Re: reintroduce the ANT


Originally Posted by Whiteagle View Post
No, I actually like that controlling Bases and Territory is what earns you the Resources...
I mean, it ties well with why these three Factions would constantly fight over the same two Outpost at either end of a Box Canyon; Those two locations give them more Resources to continue fighting this Forever War.

This was also my attempt at a justification for the Lattice back in Beta, the Bases would be built on an Ancient Tech Nanite Pipeline.

As for giving the ANT a more action oriented role, using Resources as NTU allows us to bring back the Neutralization Mechanic, and both Nanite Transports will be able to DRAW from Silos as well as deposit into them.
That means we not only have Logistics, but Spec Ops can go around Ninja-ing them from behind Enemy Lines.

I can see where you are going with actively collecting Crystals, but that might be problematic...

If their placement was randomly generated, then we might have issues with them spawning in improper places.
Set points work, but I had already included something like that with drawing "residual" Resources out from the hackable "Safety Valves" located on long stretches of Pipe.
I support combined passive resource gain from territories, with ANT harvesting as a bonus. active resource collection and management is metagame.

im thinking maybe a set number of points that crystasl can randomly appear. they have a radius of influence like an AMS deploy zone. if you deploy an ANT in that zone you collect its resources.

I don't think NTUS powering bases will work in ps2, because there are too many outposts and bases. we should also not force players to do anything. in my idea, ANT harvesting is not mandatory. it offers a nice bonus, but no one is forced to do it.

Last edited by moosepoop; 2013-06-25 at 10:54 AM.
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Old 2013-06-25, 11:17 AM   [Ignore Me] #39
Whiteagle
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Re: reintroduce the ANT


Originally Posted by moosepoop View Post
I support combined passive resource gain from territories, with ANT harvesting as a bonus. active resource collection and management is metagame.

im thinking maybe a set number of points that crystasl can randomly appear. they have a radius of influence like an AMS deploy zone. if you deploy an ANT in that zone you collect its resources.

I don't think NTUS powering bases will work in ps2, because there are too many outposts and bases. we should also not force players to do anything. in my idea, ANT harvesting is not mandatory. it offers a nice bonus, but no one is forced to do it.
Well my idea still has Passive Gathering via Resource Generators and distrabution through the Pipeline, it's just that the Nanite Transports help with either depleating or restocking a heavily used Base's stores from less contested areas.

So say Mao is under siege, but the Northern Indar Warpgate holds Hvar and Allatum so no one is really using Saurva or Dahaka's Silos.
Resource Runners could drain a bit off the top from the North-western Facilities (Or the Warpgate, since I'd have those three Prongs also serve as Gigantic Silos) and then transport them to Mao where they are more needed.

Or conversely, the Defenders could easily just take what is left of Mao's Resources and Neutralize the Base, forcing the Attackers to expend their OWN Resources to power it back up and possibly destroy their momentum.

But yeah, Spawning Crystals to farm seem like it'd be a bit troublesome...
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Old 2013-06-25, 11:23 AM   [Ignore Me] #40
moosepoop
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Re: reintroduce the ANT


Originally Posted by Whiteagle View Post
Well my idea still has Passive Gathering via Resource Generators and distrabution through the Pipeline, it's just that the Nanite Transports help with either depleating or restocking a heavily used Base's stores from less contested areas.

So say Mao is under siege, but the Northern Indar Warpgate holds Hvar and Allatum so no one is really using Saurva or Dahaka's Silos.
Resource Runners could drain a bit off the top from the North-western Facilities (Or the Warpgate, since I'd have those three Prongs also serve as Gigantic Silos) and then transport them to Mao where they are more needed.

Or conversely, the Defenders could easily just take what is left of Mao's Resources and Neutralize the Base, forcing the Attackers to expend their OWN Resources to power it back up and possibly destroy their momentum.

But yeah, Spawning Crystals to farm seem like it'd be a bit troublesome...
I cant understand what you are talking about. can you make your idea in point form?
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Old 2013-06-25, 11:40 AM   [Ignore Me] #41
MrMak
Sergeant Major
 
Re: reintroduce the ANT


ANTs could also be used for a new alert type.

Power Rush:

When the Alert starts 3 Geowarps would erupt in set locations ner the center fo the continet some distance from eachother. They would be slightly diferent from the ones in PS1. Their shileds would stop all weapons fire from inside and outside but they would let vehicles and infantry in freely and allow for combat under the shield dome. Think of it like the shield domes the gungans used in the Phantom Menace. The domes themselves would be much flater so to not allow aircraft too much room inside to manuver.

The objective of the Alert owuld be to gather more energy from the Geowarps using ANTs and bring it to the Warpgate than the other factions in before the alert ends. The final XP bonus would be calculated based on the ammount of power collected, wether or not your faction won and howm uch morep ower your faction collected than the faction below you (This bonus is not given in the event of a draw or if your faction is on 3rd place).

To put some limit on how fast the power can be harvested at once the process would be different than in PS1. Isntead of simply deploying in the Geopwarp there would be a structure in the center with 4 slots to which the ANTs would connect to load up.

This way securing more than one Geowarp not only denies power to the enemy but also speeds up your own "production".

To further incentivise players to participate big XP rewards would be given out to people doing the runs and their squadmates (this is to incentivise forming convoys rather than just going every ANT for itself), for destroying charged up ANTs (identified by a characteristic glow and special rader icon), and an extra XP bonus in the areas around the Geowarps.
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Old 2013-06-25, 05:47 PM   [Ignore Me] #42
Whiteagle
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Re: reintroduce the ANT


Originally Posted by moosepoop View Post
I cant understand what you are talking about. can you make your idea in point form?
Ok, I'm probably going to have to take this again from the top.


-Resources are reverted back to their Beta Incarnation, where the three colors all have a use for different consumables and Vehicles.
-Their storage is switched from the Individual Players to communal Base Silos, from which the purchases of every Allied Player within that Territory are deducted.
-The Resources now also serve as NTU, being evenly drawn on to repair damage to that Base's Terminals, Turrets, and Generators slowly over time.
-The Lattice is now represented in world by an Ancient Tech Nanite Pipeline, with the various Bases having been built on the distribution nodes of this Pipeline.
-Each Node is also connected to an "Extractor" located somewhere within the Territory, which in game represents where the Resources actually come from.
-On particular stretches of Pipe there are "Safety Valves" which control the "flow" of Resources, which can be hacked by Infiltrators to mess with or outright destroyed via damage to stop said flow.
-Nanite Transports are Support Vehicles that can either remove or refill Nanites from a Silo, as well as draw extra "Residual Resources" from the Safety Valves or Extractors at the five minute Resource Ticks.


Ok, does that make sense?
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Old 2013-06-25, 06:32 PM   [Ignore Me] #43
Kalee J
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Re: reintroduce the ANT


Some of the best PS1 memories I have revolve around last minute base resupplies. It was a crazy challenge getting that thing through enemy lines to the silo in a big fight. It was very satisfying to pull off.
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Old 2013-06-25, 06:39 PM   [Ignore Me] #44
Figment
Lieutenant General
 
Re: reintroduce the ANT


If you relate it to vehicle supply resources, which is what they tried in PS1, bases will drain too fast. People would have to constantly run ANTs and it'd be a too demanding, distracting chore. That's why they changed that in PS1 beta.



So who would drive these things, constantly?







I do wonder if putting a gun on it - akin to Hayoo's original idea (below) - would help in making them feel less like a chore and useful vehicle with alternate purposes.





What we could have, is a basic pipeline network, which, IF THERE IS A BROKEN LATTICE LINK FROM THE WARPGATE OR BASES ARE OTHERWISE ISOLATED, requires manual input from ANTs to restore NTU to the bases. Restoring the lattice link would slowly resupply a base's energy as well (say 10% per 20 minutes, where an ANT could do it in a single recharge). Note that if you have a slow resupply effect, you could have a net-drain still by relating the draining to how damaged the complex is.

Such a damaged compound would not directly effect the supplies to other bases - until it turns neutral (at which point it "locks" the flow automatically. From a lore perspective this could be a safeguard installed to prevent tapping of NTU by third parties).


As for drain time, relate it to base damage as per PS1. And let it take quite some time, the fight should first try to end naturally, which can take hours. I'd say a base that is never repaired should drain in half an hour, a base that gets frequent repairs (control is high) should last for an hour or two. Tweak drain by damage on that and also base the amount of stuff that can be damaged on that time.


The draining should thus be coupled to auto-repair of the base. Auto-repair should be very slow in comparison to engineers. So slow it's barely noticable during a fight. Why? For starters, to actually get a long term drain effect and effect on defensiveness when you destroy something, to make sure engineers have a job to do and lastly to prevent turret kill whoring for free experience points (which shouldn't exist in the first place...).

If you have a ringed defense, you could argue that the drain speed by control of a ring (walls (Turrets) - courtyard (CY Shield Gens) - innermost (terminals/SCU) would be 33% per ring.

So if you have 30 turrets, then each turret blown creates a drain of 1.1% (33/30) of the potential fastest drain speed. With four shield gens, then it's 8.25% (33/4) of potential total speed per gen and if you have 20 terminals (air/vehicle/equipment), then these would be 1.67% (30/20) potential of total speed each.


Small, medium and large outposts and bases could each have different standard NTU reserves and different amounts of defenses, thus different drain speeds. If there are few defenses, the reserve must be relatively high, to not have one broken turret completely screw over the entire base fight.

Last edited by Figment; 2013-06-25 at 06:48 PM.
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Old 2013-06-25, 07:27 PM   [Ignore Me] #45
moosepoop
Captain
 
Re: reintroduce the ANT


my idea is this

keep current slow passive resource gain
allow ANT to give resource bonus, actively speed up resource gain

-crystals around center of map with spawn timer
-ANT come harvest
-dump at tech plant to give global resource boost depending on type of crystal

mission generated:
- protect ANT convoy
- destroy convoy
- hold and defend mineral site

Last edited by moosepoop; 2013-06-25 at 07:39 PM.
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