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Old 2011-08-12, 01:00 AM   [Ignore Me] #46
Kouza
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Re: Making this work


Here is my thing, Back when EQ2 came out and decided they would do a monthly subscription they made a SHIT TON of money, because it actually became massive, because people could afford to stay on and Grind.

Now this FTP Model is coming out.... Do you really think all these companies are doing FTP to save you money? This is Sony we are talking about.

15 dollar monthly subscription is fine.... Who cant afford that? honestly? I don`t have a job, and I can afford it, along with my bills. I could afford it even better before I lost my job.

PROS of Monthly Subscription:
1. Hacking- Not many people like to pay money on a game they are banned from. Gets rid of a lot of hackers.

2. Maturity- Lots of little kids cant afford it, you end up with older players, who network to other older players about the fun they are having.

Pros of FTP

1. Little johny whose mom wont give him 15 dollars a month can play, and get cr5, and global about how he likes gum balls.

2. Hackers can fuck up, and create an extra account.

3. You end up having to pay 15 dollars a month any way, unless you want to spend twice the time grinding, not be able to customize your character the way you want to, Spec certain trees, use certain items, The list goes on.

I played World of tanks. It was fun, I will give it that, I felt like I was paying less when I shelled out 6.99 at a time instead of 15 every month. The truth was when it came down to it, The premium account (the thing you need to actually get decent EXP) cost 15 a month. Then you had to pay to "Convert Experience", meaning if you used your T-34 (Tier 5), and Got to the T-34-85 (Tier 6), You had to pay money to receive any sort of benefit from the T-34 after that, unless you wanted to play it with no gain.

FTP sucks.... Companies use the business model for a reason... Not because it saves you money.
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Old 2011-08-12, 01:06 AM   [Ignore Me] #47
Zulthus
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Re: Making this work


Originally Posted by Kouza View Post
Here is my thing, Back when EQ2 came out and decided they would do a monthly subscription they made a SHIT TON of money, because it actually became massive, because people could afford to stay on and Grind.

Now this FTP Model is coming out.... Do you really think all these companies are doing FTP to save you money? This is Sony we are talking about.

15 dollar monthly subscription is fine.... Who cant afford that? honestly? I don`t have a job, and I can afford it, along with my bills. I could afford it even better before I lost my job.

PROS of Monthly Subscription:
1. Hacking- Not many people like to pay money on a game they are banned from. Gets rid of a lot of hackers.

2. Maturity- Lots of little kids cant afford it, you end up with older players, who network to other older players about the fun they are having.

Pros of FTP

1. Little johny whose mom wont give him 15 dollars a month can play, and get cr5, and global about how he likes gum balls.

2. Hackers can fuck up, and create an extra account.

3. You end up having to pay 15 dollars a month any way, unless you want to spend twice the time grinding, not be able to customize your character the way you want to, Spec certain trees, use certain items, The list goes on.

I played World of tanks. It was fun, I will give it that, I felt like I was paying less when I shelled out 6.99 at a time instead of 15 every month. The truth was when it came down to it, The premium account (the thing you need to actually get decent EXP) cost 15 a month. Then you had to pay to "Convert Experience", meaning if you used your T-34 (Tier 5), and Got to the T-34-85 (Tier 6), You had to pay money to receive any sort of benefit from the T-34 after that, unless you wanted to play it with no gain.

FTP sucks.... Companies use the business model for a reason... Not because it saves you money.
I completely agree with this post -- There should be no F2P model whatsoever, every MMO game I've ever played that is F2P sucks because-

1. Little whiny kids
2. Hackers run rampant
3. Cash Shop

I also agree that $15 a month is extremely affordable, I don't see why people call it an unreasonable price for such a good game.

Let's not give PS2 a F2P model.
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Old 2011-08-12, 01:14 AM   [Ignore Me] #48
MasterChief096
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Re: Making this work


Originally Posted by Kouza View Post
Here is my thing, Back when EQ2 came out and decided they would do a monthly subscription they made a SHIT TON of money, because it actually became massive, because people could afford to stay on and Grind.

Now this FTP Model is coming out.... Do you really think all these companies are doing FTP to save you money? This is Sony we are talking about.

15 dollar monthly subscription is fine.... Who cant afford that? honestly? I don`t have a job, and I can afford it, along with my bills. I could afford it even better before I lost my job.

PROS of Monthly Subscription:
1. Hacking- Not many people like to pay money on a game they are banned from. Gets rid of a lot of hackers.

2. Maturity- Lots of little kids cant afford it, you end up with older players, who network to other older players about the fun they are having.

Pros of FTP

1. Little johny whose mom wont give him 15 dollars a month can play, and get cr5, and global about how he likes gum balls.

2. Hackers can fuck up, and create an extra account.

3. You end up having to pay 15 dollars a month any way, unless you want to spend twice the time grinding, not be able to customize your character the way you want to, Spec certain trees, use certain items, The list goes on.

I played World of tanks. It was fun, I will give it that, I felt like I was paying less when I shelled out 6.99 at a time instead of 15 every month. The truth was when it came down to it, The premium account (the thing you need to actually get decent EXP) cost 15 a month. Then you had to pay to "Convert Experience", meaning if you used your T-34 (Tier 5), and Got to the T-34-85 (Tier 6), You had to pay money to receive any sort of benefit from the T-34 after that, unless you wanted to play it with no gain.

FTP sucks.... Companies use the business model for a reason... Not because it saves you money.
No one here wants complete free form F2P, and only F2P.

Hackers would still be non-existent if PlanetSide 2 were F2P if you had to pay 60 dollars to buy the game. No hacker is going to pay 60 dollars for the game and get banned. To make it so he can't just keep making station accounts have your station account get signed to your copy of the game via its CD Key, thus not allowing you to play on other accounts with the same copy, meaning the hacker would have to shell another 60 dollars to hack again.

Those problems are extremely prominent in games like Silk Road, FlyFF, and pretty much every other Korean grindfest MMORPG out there that you can download for free, and play for free, but PS2 won't be like that.

Most people here advocate some form of F2P (maybe limited to BR or a slow EXP gain) with the option of purchasing a monthly subscription. I myself have proposed being able to purchase 40 hours for a set fee as well for people who don't play enough in one month to justify paying a monthly subscription. The cash shop is added in only for cosmetic stuff so it won't be pay2win or pay2gainEXPfaster.

I agree that those problems you mentioned are really bad in COMPLETE F2P games, but PS2 won't be completely F2P. At least I hope it won't.
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Old 2011-08-12, 01:19 AM   [Ignore Me] #49
Zulthus
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Re: Making this work


Originally Posted by MasterChief096 View Post
No one here wants complete free form F2P, and only F2P.

Hackers would still be non-existent if PlanetSide 2 were F2P if you had to pay 60 dollars to buy the game. No hacker is going to pay 60 dollars for the game and get banned. To make it so he can't just keep making station accounts have your station account get signed to your copy of the game via its CD Key, thus not allowing you to play on other accounts with the same copy, meaning the hacker would have to shell another 60 dollars to hack again.

Those problems are extremely prominent in games like Silk Road, FlyFF, and pretty much every other Korean grindfest MMORPG out there that you can download for free, and play for free, but PS2 won't be like that.

Most people here advocate some form of F2P (maybe limited to BR or a slow EXP gain) with the option of purchasing a monthly subscription. I myself have proposed being able to purchase 40 hours for a set fee as well for people who don't play enough in one month to justify paying a monthly subscription. The cash shop is added in only for cosmetic stuff so it won't be pay2win or pay2gainEXPfaster.

I agree that those problems you mentioned are really bad in COMPLETE F2P games, but PS2 won't be completely F2P. At least I hope it won't.
I still think that a $15 dollar/mo sub fee is still completely affordable though, even if I would only play a total of a week in a given month.

I have the feeling, that like EQ, their "cosmetic" cash shop will in time turn into a "rent this weapon for x days", or "increase your xp gain by x". Time will tell though.
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Old 2011-08-12, 01:22 AM   [Ignore Me] #50
Kouza
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Re: Making this work


Off topic.... If you are worried about 15 dollars a month you should not be playing this game... You should be getting a second job, or one period. I don`t Care how much it is in Europe, I`m sick of worrying about countries that are not my own, when they spit on us. Thank you.

Last edited by Kouza; 2011-08-12 at 01:30 AM.
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Old 2011-08-12, 01:58 AM   [Ignore Me] #51
exLupo
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Re: Making this work


Originally Posted by Kouza View Post
Off topic.... If you are worried about 15 dollars a month you should not be playing this game.
There's being worried about putting food on the plate and being worried about making a bad purchase. I don't care if I'm paying $1k for a tv or $3.50 for a gallon of gas, if what I'm buying isn't worth the price, it's not worth the price.

PS2 is going to be compared to both the MMO and FPS markets. MMOs are more and more moving to a freemium model and FPS are, with rare exceptions, totally free. Can you get in other FPS what you can in PS2? No. Can you get something that is similar in a whole lot of ways? Yes.

The buy-in price hurt PS back when every MMO was $15. Now that the market is moving away from that model, it will only do more damage today.
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Old 2011-08-12, 02:08 AM   [Ignore Me] #52
Kouza
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Re: Making this work


Originally Posted by exLupo View Post
There's being worried about putting food on the plate and being worried about making a bad purchase. I don't care if I'm paying $1k for a tv or $3.50 for a gallon of gas, if what I'm buying isn't worth the price, it's not worth the price.

PS2 is going to be compared to both the MMO and FPS markets. MMOs are more and more moving to a freemium model and FPS are, with rare exceptions, totally free. Can you get in other FPS what you can in PS2? No. Can you get something that is similar in a whole lot of ways? Yes.

The buy-in price hurt PS back when every MMO was $15. Now that the market is moving away from that model, it will only do more damage today.
If they make it good they will come. Basically when this game comes out they will have EVERY ps1 player, and more. If they make it good.... These players will play and, the game will expand.
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Old 2011-08-12, 02:19 AM   [Ignore Me] #53
Aractain
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Re: Making this work


Originally Posted by Kouza View Post
Off topic.... If you are worried about 15 dollars a month you should not be playing this game... You should be getting a second job, or one period. I don`t Care how much it is in Europe, I`m sick of worrying about countries that are not my own, when they spit on us. Thank you.
It will be interesting when you show up on the forums of End of Nations(RTS), Firefall, Tribes Ascend, APB and whatever else comes out free to play and shout at all people there that they should get a job.

Its not about money, its about state of mind and perspective.
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Old 2011-08-12, 02:24 AM   [Ignore Me] #54
exLupo
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Re: Making this work


Originally Posted by Kouza View Post
If they make it good they will come. Basically when this game comes out they will have EVERY ps1 player, and more. If they make it good.... These players will play and, the game will expand.
If you make it good, you'll get all of the:
AOC: ...Conan fans and more. Freemium.
Lotro: ...LotR fans and more. Freemium.
EQ2: ...EQ1 fans and more. Freemium.
DDO: ...DnD fans and more. Freemium.
WAR: ...DAoC fans and more. Partial free.
Galaxies: ...Star Wars fans and more. Dead.
AC2: ...AC1 fans and more. Dead.

These games are part of what is used to define the AAA MMO market. Without them you have WoW and that's it. The odds of brewing a perfect MMO and banking on the pre-existing fanbase, with the exception of WoW, is a losing proposition.

The current market leader, WoW, has a free segment and and an microtrans system. Even SWToR speculated to have a cash shop at launch.

The traditional "$15/mo for unlimited play" scheme is a dead model.
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There is no better cause to fight than the simple need that blood be spilled. Do not fight because you receive reward or praise. Fight because that other bastard exists solely to die beneath the heel of your boot.

And that was that.

Last edited by exLupo; 2011-08-12 at 02:28 AM.
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Old 2011-08-12, 02:31 AM   [Ignore Me] #55
Kouza
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Re: Making this work


Originally Posted by Aractain View Post
It will be interesting when you show up on the forums of End of Nations(RTS), Firefall, Tribes Ascend, APB and whatever else comes out free to play and shout at all people there that they should get a job.

Its not about money, its about state of mind and perspective.
Ok.... I look at my finances on a monthly stand point. Thus

Planetside: 15 dollars a month.

WOT: 40 dollars (First month nothing crazy, no tanks purchased just playing, converting EXP, and what not)

State of mind: WTF
Perspective: I just paid more.

As to me showing up on those forums complain about their payment methods, If I was playing any of those games that have already announced their F2P Billing Method. That would make my a Hypocrite because, id be playing it along side them.

I`m not saying I wont play PS2 If it is F2P I`m not some crazy F2P hating Nazi but, I have to realize that its likely going to cost more, if I want to experience the game to its full extent, which sucks, and is a turn off.

Id still hit a super model If I had to take her to four, fifteen dollar dinners but, Id rather take her to one forty five dollar dinner.
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Old 2011-08-12, 02:33 AM   [Ignore Me] #56
Kouza
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Re: Making this work


All I am saying is, I play games to get out of my real life, and take a break. Not to pull out my wallet, and budget my bank account every time I want to level up.
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Old 2011-08-12, 02:55 AM   [Ignore Me] #57
Senyu
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Re: Making this work


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Old 2011-08-12, 03:13 AM   [Ignore Me] #58
exLupo
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Re: Making this work


^^^ Cute. Idealistic. Not representative of reality.

If cover charges kept out the riff raff, we wouldn't need bouncers. Will a fee keep out some people who just want to troll? Maybe but GeneralVega and the thriving, "racist, homophobic tween" segment of the paying XBL community show otherwise.

MMOs, All MMOs, need an attentive CS/Admin staff to deal with issues from hacking to harassment. While it has been argued that freemium games have less income (leading to less staff), Nexon's success and the recent notice of AoC's income doubling after going freemium are evidence to the contrary.

Basically, SOE's gotta pony up for good bouncers. Simply asking for $15 at the door is not now nor has it ever been remotely adequate.
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Old 2011-08-12, 03:42 AM   [Ignore Me] #59
Senyu
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Re: Making this work


Ya but its a start. And the monthly payment helps the game receive the funding it needs to stay alive and continue developing more content to add as it grows
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Old 2011-08-12, 03:59 AM   [Ignore Me] #60
exLupo
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Re: Making this work


Originally Posted by Senyu View Post
Ya but its a start. And the monthly payment helps the game receive the funding it needs to stay alive and continue developing more content to add as it grows
That would be an argument for freemium as those titles, with rare exception, make more than schedule pay alternatives. On top of that, for a PvP game, you get more players which is, in itself, low cost content.
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