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Old 2012-01-01, 09:56 AM   [Ignore Me] #16
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Re: Planetside Cheaters


My original thinking was in fact to warn the suspected cheaters that they have been reported and are on the watchlist so that they have the opportunity to mend their ways. But I get your point that the process has to be evidence-based in order to elevate the list from being abused as a griefing channel.

Removed the unconfirmed and keeping the suspect list private.

Will need to start a new page also because wiki's have a way of keeping history very well.
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Old 2012-01-01, 09:59 AM   [Ignore Me] #17
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Re: Planetside Cheaters


this is pointless,trying to make a list is a friggin waste of damn time, if you hadn't noticed PS IS DEAD!!

so why in the hell would you make a list of cheaters in a game that is so far past its prime that even most of the ppl that love that game won't even play it anymore?
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Old 2012-01-01, 10:08 AM   [Ignore Me] #18
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Re: Planetside Cheaters


I don't see it as pointless. PS1 was released on May 2003. I immediately subbed on June 2003 and enjoyed it for a couple of years until the first wave of speed-hacked cheats plagued the game.

When I resubbed in Jan 2011 for 1 month, I unsubbed again within a few days when the barcode hackers was running rampant.

Now, the barcode hackers are no more which means SOE have done something.

Although the current player base is quite small, I think it is quite healthy still, at least compared to my past experiences.

Now that PS2 is around the corner, it is more important than ever to drive home the points to the developers that cheating ruins the game for many players. There are 2 ways they can go about it. Either actively manage cheating or give the player community the means to do it.

Not going to suggest that this will be an easy task but it is necessary one. Steam Valve VAC doesn't work either.

Last edited by pscheaters; 2012-01-01 at 10:21 AM.
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Old 2012-01-01, 12:41 PM   [Ignore Me] #19
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Re: Planetside Cheaters


I have a few examples of this that will perhaps put things in better perspective.

Salem Witch Trials

The Red Scare

The Reign of Terror

McCarthyism


This whole list is a bad idea, and infringes on the idea of innocent until PROVEN guilty. As this list goes, its innocent until accused by those who can't ever truly know.

The devs have said "We've got this." I believe them because they can actually do something about it in PS2.

In Higby we trust.

Last edited by CidHighwind; 2012-01-01 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 2012-01-01, 12:43 PM   [Ignore Me] #20
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Re: Planetside Cheaters


Originally Posted by yonman View Post
And just to point out the slander part - you may want to not display unconfirmed names. The damage to one's reputation of just appearing on this list could ruin people's gaming experience, even if only temporarily. In the real world, this would be slander and make you liable if you can't prove the claim ...
Libel as it is written as opposed to slander which is spoken.

You'll notice that SOE doesn't publicise the names or character names of the people that it bans. I guess there must be a reason........
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Old 2012-01-01, 01:07 PM   [Ignore Me] #21
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Re: Planetside Cheaters


Simply claiming someone cheats never works.

Like I will personally vouche for commando, he's a very skilled grunt. One of the scariest people I've ever fought on the ground when on different empire

I'd have to dig it up, but I have a similar list via google documents. But with evidence, and an explanation on various cheats in planetside, and how to identify them. I'll get it later this evening.

www.youtube.com/user/gigantor89

If you're really commited to this. Here's some videos.

Also "it takes a thief to catch a thief", I don't think that applies to planetside players who cheat. As the vast majority of the cheaters I've encountered are all really, really bad at planetside. I've only met a very small hand full of players would be considered even above average, who ended up being cheaters.
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Last edited by Effective; 2012-01-01 at 01:10 PM.
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Old 2012-01-01, 02:57 PM   [Ignore Me] #22
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Re: Planetside Cheaters


Originally Posted by CidHighwind View Post
This whole list is a bad idea, and infringes on the idea of innocent until PROVEN guilty. As this list goes, its innocent until accused by those who can't ever truly know.
Not really. Previous posters, were referring to a different version of the growing and much longer list that is still visible in the wiki's history, where unconfirmed "awesome" players are also listed.

This has since been truncated to the confirmed cheaters. And yes, it is surprising. Some of these players are in fact really nice guys, and perhaps even good players, but unfortunately, they are also using cheats.

The evidence will be placed on Youtube later when I feel that I have developed more advanced techniques of identifying the cheats. And yea, no trial. Confirmed. No doubts
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Old 2012-01-01, 07:17 PM   [Ignore Me] #23
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Re: Planetside Cheaters


This is fucking stupid. Bad player is bad, and mad. Cheaters exist(ed) in PS1, but most were either obvious or terrible. You got beat by CSHD and you're assuming it's cheating, I can guarantee this for 99% of your claims. Shut the fuck up and go away.
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Old 2012-01-01, 07:41 PM   [Ignore Me] #24
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Re: Planetside Cheaters


Originally Posted by ShockFC View Post
This is fucking stupid. Bad player is bad, and mad. Cheaters exist(ed) in PS1, but most were either obvious or terrible. You got beat by CSHD and you're assuming it's cheating, I can guarantee this for 99% of your claims. Shut the fuck up and go away.
Going to have to agree with Shock here.

Making claims before posting actual evidence is dumb.
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Old 2012-01-01, 08:42 PM   [Ignore Me] #25
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Re: Planetside Cheaters


Originally Posted by ShockFC View Post
Cheaters exist(ed) in PS1, but most were either obvious or terrible.
Heh I've had K/D as high as 50:1 to 100:1 legitimately. But your point is, if people are using cheats in a not very obvious way, then its ok? I disagree.

Having finally checked out and researched what the cheats do, even designers of cheats these days are clever enough to make their cheats non-obvious (15% ROF and no COF bloom?) and resilient to abuse (e.g. teleport timer?).

But the point is, it is detectable if you know what to look for. And coding counters to injection methods of cheating is the perfect intellectual challenge that I've been looking for.
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Old 2012-01-01, 08:46 PM   [Ignore Me] #26
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Re: Planetside Cheaters


Originally Posted by Effective View Post
Making claims before posting actual evidence is dumb.
Heh you see any GM post evidence before banning? Go away. I've got the evidence and I will reveal it when I am happy enough that I've rounded up a good portion of you guys.

Do not pretend to be good legitimate players and think if you can get away with it, then it is ok.

Last edited by pscheaters; 2012-01-01 at 08:48 PM.
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Old 2012-01-01, 08:48 PM   [Ignore Me] #27
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Re: Planetside Cheaters


Originally Posted by pscheaters View Post
Heh I've had K/D as high as 50:1 to 100:1 legitimately. But your point is, if people are using cheats in a not very obvious way, then its ok? I disagree.

Having finally checked out and researched what the cheats do, even designers of cheats these days are clever enough to make their cheats non-obvious (15% ROF and no COF bloom?) and resilient to abuse (e.g. teleport timer?).

But the point is, it is detectable if you know what to look for. And coding counters to injection methods of cheating is the perfect intellectual challenge that I've been looking for.
K/D is not a good way to determine if a player is good or bad.

Determining if someone is a cheater is completely different, for example, a not obvious cheat is a 10% increase on rof, and a slightly decreased COF, to just give a little advantage. There really isn't a way to determine if someone might be cheating. Due to the was CSHD works, time no longer becomes a value that can be trusted in determining these cheaters.

That being said, cheats like Radar hacks, no reload, infinite afterburn are easy to notice and record (as I have done before in the past). It's much easier to show this to people, as these have reliable values that can be tested against.


Originally Posted by pscheaters View Post
Heh you see any GM post evidence before banning? Go away. I've got the evidence and I will reveal it when I am happy enough that I've rounded up a good portion of you guys.

Do not pretend to be good legitimate players and think if you can get away with it, then it is ok.

Also, no GM's don't post evidence, which I believe is dumb. I do, when making claims that someone might be cheating, I've done this multiple times already. For example


By "rounding you guys up" I assume (correct me if I'm wrong) you mean members of TRx and other cheaters. We (TRx) don't condone cheaters, at all. That alongside the fact that very few TRx play planetside now, the chances of you recording (and getting an actually decent recording that just isn't some gimmick in CSHD) anyone I haven't recorded already close to none.

You don't have any evidence. Period.
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Last edited by Effective; 2012-01-01 at 08:55 PM.
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Old 2012-01-01, 09:26 PM   [Ignore Me] #28
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Re: Planetside Cheaters


Am I mad? Yes, of course, it takes a certain degree of madness to want to go so far to take you guys down. I do not get paid for doing this whilst I can get paid a lot more using my time and skills in a different capacity but its the holidays and I got bored.

I was going down the path you were going but there are better ways. Lets say:

Level 1 - unassisted observation through game client (which is what you have done)
Level 2 - assisted observation through game client (using cheats to spot cheats or GM's using GM privileges, however, observation is still based on behavioural evidence)
Level 3 - assisted observation and measurement of datastream (www.winpcap.org, I am sure SOE have tools to do this server-side already). Yes, latency/lag may contribute to a certain degree of variation in ROF, but if the same person is consistently always falling on the +x% side (over 30 minutes), then there is 99.5% statistical confidence, that the person is using ROF cheat. TRxCommando does not die and respawn often so its easy to track him using same faction (dont need alt, main is TR infil anyway).
Level 4 - only people I am willing to share this is with game developers...

Now I get which soft spot I've hit. To be honest, throughout this entire thread, I was not even thinking or referring to TRx at all but all the players who are using cheats. This very post is in fact the first time throughout this entire thread that I am even mentioning TRx in response to your defense.

TRxCommando is a confirmed cheater. Sorry cant take that back.

Last edited by pscheaters; 2012-01-01 at 09:33 PM.
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Old 2012-01-01, 09:38 PM   [Ignore Me] #29
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Re: Planetside Cheaters


Originally Posted by Effective View Post
K/D is not a good way to determine if a player is good or bad.
Agreed. I had to resort to lame high K/D and survivability techniques like low population farming, constant spawn-camping and carmageddon (before the nerf) to get this. But the point is, I have been around long enough to know what I am talking about ...
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Old 2012-01-01, 09:41 PM   [Ignore Me] #30
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Re: Planetside Cheaters


Originally Posted by pscheaters View Post
I was going down the path you were going but there are better ways. Lets say:

Level 1 - unassisted observation through game client (which is what you have done)
Level 2 - assisted observation through game client (using cheats to spot cheats or GM's using GM privileges, however, observation is still based on behavioural evidence)
Level 3 - assisted observation and measurement of datastream (www.winpcap.org, I am sure SOE have tools to do this server-side already). Yes, latency/lag may contribute to a certain degree of variation in ROF, but if the same person is consistently always falling on the +x% side (over 30 minutes), then there is 99.5% statistical confidence, that the person is using ROF cheat. TRxCommando does not die and respawn often so its easy to track him using same faction (dont need alt, main is TR infil anyway).
Level 4 - only people I am willing to share this is with game developers...

TRxCommando is a confirmed cheater. Sorry cant take that back.
I personally refuse to use cheats to help determine cheaters, nor do I have the means to access GM abilities (So yes, I'm limited to a certain degree). Consistently falling on +x%, they could just be lagging all the time, Commando, doesn't live anywhere near the server, so his ping is constantly going to be high, and always is.

Not dieing is not a sign someone is cheating, respawning often is a sign of not dieing often.

GM's will not use player recorded videos as evidence for banning.
Making a claim, then hiding any so called evidence from the public, will get you nowhere with actually getting players banned



Unless they changed this policy, then you're out of luck.
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Last edited by Effective; 2012-01-01 at 09:43 PM.
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