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Old 2004-01-16, 04:38 PM   [Ignore Me] #31
Rbstr
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yeha i agree the 1 shot then tri shot was a bug, they just need to make it so there is a reload time before you can trishot if you jsut fired single shot
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Old 2004-01-16, 05:12 PM   [Ignore Me] #32
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If reducing the rate of fire is not a "nerf" then nothing is.

If they buffed everything except for 1 weapon, that weapon would have been nerfed because its compairative power was decreased.

Lower a stat on a weapon (one that is more usefull at higher values) and that weapon has been nerfed . . . just because that is the definition of a nerfing.
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Old 2004-01-16, 05:18 PM   [Ignore Me] #33
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Originally Posted by Spee
Just....Delete HA.



[/tiredofit]
/agree

/agree with spee delete HA I'll be happy with my cycler
/AGREE!!!!! The cycler is all you really need.
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Old 2004-01-16, 05:21 PM   [Ignore Me] #34
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A) I completly agree with the point that HA owns indoors. The problem is that Jackhammers are the best of the best. They are a shotgun. So if you get inside and have your own MGC/Lasher then you lose.

B) This is a nerf. However its a practical one. If you dont like NC changes then get the hell out of this game. Your not welcome. If they were to nerf the VS maxes I would dislike the change but understand that it was needed. And if they nerfed them REALLY bad then I would just quit. I expect you to do the same.

C) The argument that the NC average 18% more kills is flawed. We have no way to determine WHY that average is there.
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Old 2004-01-16, 05:23 PM   [Ignore Me] #35
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Originally Posted by Manitou
Leave it alone - no nerf needed.
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Old 2004-01-16, 05:29 PM   [Ignore Me] #36
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Originally Posted by _-Gunslinger-_
A) I completly agree with the point that HA owns indoors. The problem is that Jackhammers are the best of the best. They are a shotgun. So if you get inside and have your own MGC/Lasher then you lose.
Well this is a bit of another topic, but I have to disagree wholeheartedly. There are alot of different ranges indoors, and the JH is most definitely NOT the master of all indoor ranges. At anything over 15m or so, between a JH user and a Lasher/MCG user, if both start firing at roughly the same time, the JH should lose. At anything closer, or if the JH user has surge, the JH should win. All 3 HA weapons have their own distinct strengths indoors.
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Old 2004-01-16, 05:45 PM   [Ignore Me] #37
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Originally Posted by infinite loop
Well this is a bit of another topic, but I have to disagree wholeheartedly. There are alot of different ranges indoors, and the JH is most definitely NOT the master of all indoor ranges. At anything over 15m or so, between a JH user and a Lasher/MCG user, if both start firing at roughly the same time, the JH should lose. At anything closer, or if the JH user has surge, the JH should win. All 3 HA weapons have their own distinct strengths indoors.
IL, you have a good point... but the JH is the only one that got the excellent combo implant. JH+Surge+Agile=winning combo. The JH has an implant/armor combo that directly helps negate it's one weakness. Now if there was an implant/armor combo to assist the MCG and Lasher maintain medium range... then the JH would lose it's top slot.

Maybe the new buffed Rexo would help... if you can't keep that surgile JH at medium range, perhaps you can survive an extra shot or two allowing you to fight back...
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Old 2004-01-16, 05:51 PM   [Ignore Me] #38
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A huge factor also, is the element of surprise. If I surge up to you with any weapon before you see me, you deserve to die. In that respect, the implant helps any weapon. But I hear what you're saying, surge does help make up for the JH's deficiencies, where there isn't one directly helping the other HA. Unless you count personal shield/second wind in that respect. But regardless, a good MCG or Lasher user should beat any JH user if he sees him coming. I really think that good JH users rely on surprise more than other players, but that's just a suspicion of mine, not based on any real fact.
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Old 2004-01-16, 05:56 PM   [Ignore Me] #39
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Originally Posted by infinite loop
Well this is a bit of another topic, but I have to disagree wholeheartedly. There are alot of different ranges indoors, and the JH is most definitely NOT the master of all indoor ranges. At anything over 15m or so, between a JH user and a Lasher/MCG user, if both start firing at roughly the same time, the JH should lose. At anything closer, or if the JH user has surge, the JH should win. All 3 HA weapons have their own distinct strengths indoors.
This is true with the MCG keep some distance back away or if you have to retreat into a hallway hopefully you got some backup there. If your using a lasher however hope your in a hallway not much dancing room in there so if you don't get a direct hit your lashes will still get him.
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Old 2004-01-16, 06:23 PM   [Ignore Me] #40
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Originally Posted by _-Gunslinger-_
C) The argument that the NC average 18% more kills is flawed. We have no way to determine WHY that average is there.
Not to sound to derogatory towards your thoughts, but IMHO common sense dictates this one. As previously mentioned... What is the ONLY difference between the empires? Their equipment.

Other theories for this imbalance that Ive seen posted in various threads are humorous at best. Ive heard a theory that its the empires goal that so greatly effects their performance. The NC fight for the noble cause of freedom while the TR are evil oppressors and the VS are a loony cult. Who can muster the effort to fight for an oppressor or a cult? Hearing this suggestion made my beer come out of my nose I was laughing so hard. Then I realized the posted was not joking then I though OMG some people are either oblivious to reason, have a not-so-hidden agenda, or are just trying to spark a heated debate because they live for the flame war. The other one that kills me is the DEV plot favoring the NC theory. Some of guys make my stomach hurt. LOL Anyway, I digress.

OK, back to logic because there is a clear problem with the NC (their statistically proven outof-balance killing effectiveness) and the only possible cause is the one thing that differs between the empires. I dont think we need an Einstein to perform quantum calculations and come up with the theory regarding the JH and Van.

This might be proven wrong, but until then what else do you think could cause such a disparity in the statistics? Do the NC have the market corned on skill? Do they just have masterful genius level tactical and strategically leaders on all 3 servers? What could possibly explain this problem? Ive yet to hear anything that makes sense.
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Old 2004-01-16, 06:30 PM   [Ignore Me] #41
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Ash - just curious, where are you getting these stats from? Just by eyeballing thott's, I can't see a disparity. Maybe I'm missing something.
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Old 2004-01-16, 06:37 PM   [Ignore Me] #42
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Originally Posted by infinite loop
A huge factor also, is the element of surprise. If I surge up to you with any weapon before you see me, you deserve to die. In that respect, the implant helps any weapon. But I hear what you're saying, surge does help make up for the JH's deficiencies, where there isn't one directly helping the other HA. Unless you count personal shield/second wind in that respect. But regardless, a good MCG or Lasher user should beat any JH user if he sees him coming. I really think that good JH users rely on surprise more than other players, but that's just a suspicion of mine, not based on any real fact.
Yeah, when I use the JH I like to set an ambush in a hallway using one of the little niches they have in some areas. I just turn on audio amp, crouch, have my JH ready and watch for a red dot to get just close enough to where he can't quite see me yet... then it's hammer time... usually I bust people with their weapons still holstered... I kill them and then get a hate tell about how I'm a lame surgile+JH user....

Um... no, you got owned by an ambush not by a surgile hammer. I was patient and you were careless...

IMHO: The JH is the most effective of the 3 HA though. With my TR character I keep my locker stocked with Hammers just in case I need them. With my NC character there is nothing I really want. One day I amused myself by making a nice spread of all the empire specific weapons and AT weapons in my locker. It looks like one of those Hollywood style Small arms arsenals you always see the Hero owning. They press a button and the secret storage wall slides open to reveal a display of various handguns, SMGs and rifles. Ash, BadAsh, secret agent. Licensed to kill." LOL
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Old 2004-01-16, 06:46 PM   [Ignore Me] #43
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I think this is a fair change. Considering I don't use HA, its fine with me hehe.

Even as an NC I think its fine. Its true, it didn't make sense anyway.
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Old 2004-01-16, 06:50 PM   [Ignore Me] #44
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Originally Posted by BadAsh
As previously mentioned... What is the ONLY difference between the empires? Their equipment.
BUZZ Johnny, tell the man what he *could* have won!

Well Bill, if he had answered that the intelligence of each empire's CR5's differs greatly, maybe he could have won the booby prize.
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Old 2004-01-16, 06:53 PM   [Ignore Me] #45
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Originally Posted by infinite loop
Ash - just curious, where are you getting these stats from? Just by eyeballing thott's, I can't see a disparity. Maybe I'm missing something.
Here:

http://www.thottbot.com/planetside/2...1/BR/kills.php

For each empire it shows how many average kills per enemy empire. Just add those together to get the total average kills.

Totals:
TR: 1369
NC: 1651
VS: 1368

Look how even the TR and VS are!!! That's as good as it gets! We just need to either bring those two up to the NC effectiveness level or lower the NC to be equal to the other two or some combination of adjustments... I think a good power balance is in the best interest of the game as a whole.
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