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Old 2004-02-05, 12:21 PM   [Ignore Me] #106
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Queensidecastle: So you're saying you're mad because you're losing your free AV ride?
Thats actually a pretty humorous twisted bit of perspective. Free AV ride? Funny, I thought that I had been spending 3 points on a multi-use cert that has been the same cert since the release of the game for almost a year. I can see how you would logically imagine that scenario. Wait, no I cant because that would be retarded
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Old 2004-02-05, 12:29 PM   [Ignore Me] #107
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Originally Posted by Firefly
That only happens in GI Joe.
But erm...GI Joe has no British Soldiers in it....its about an American GI Joe going about Rambo style.... isn't it?
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Old 2004-02-05, 12:29 PM   [Ignore Me] #108
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Yes the buff will affect everyone, however in the scheme of what you can carry in Agile and Reinforced it's a tiny little buff, vs the infiltration suit which can now store enough jammers to get through an area lightly defended with deployables, and even toss a few plasmas in there increasing our damage potential several times over.
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Old 2004-02-05, 12:30 PM   [Ignore Me] #109
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Whether they pulled it out of their ass or not. Look at it this way. And this isn't a logic thing, a twisty thing, or anything else, just an attempt to compromise on viewpoints and find a happy little tree in the middle ground.

Heavy Assault: four certs, one weapon (presume you don't loot).
SA Currently: three certs, three weapons (presume no CC)
AV Currently: three certs, one weapon (again, presume no loot)

SA future: three certs, two weapons (no CC, presume there's no cross-cert use of Deci)
AV future: three certs, two weapons (presume no cross-cert usage of Decimator)

Now, I put HA in there because it's four friggin cert points for one weapon. I put current and future SA/AV simply to show that at least it brings a little balance. I thought it was ludicrous to pay three and four certs for one weapon, and then have a cert with three weapons at three certs. At least now (and this is the middle ground) you get two weapons for three certs, as opposed to one for three.

EDIT:
Originally Posted by Onizuka-GTO
But erm...GI Joe has no British Soldiers in it....its about an American GI Joe going about Rambo style.... isn't it?
No. There are Brits in GI Joe. And the UK version of GI Joe is "Action Force".
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Old 2004-02-05, 12:40 PM   [Ignore Me] #110
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As far as the infiltration topic, I agree. It is not for infiltrators but it will help them. I almost never see infiltrators using grenades ever to attack with and on the rare occasion I do, its plasma and they dont have a chance at actually killing you with them. The only time Grenades are good for Infils is if they are pitching them off walls or down stairs and that is no different that anyone else does with thumpers and tends to be grief heavy. Grenades have always limited the inventory for infiltrators to the point of not being usefull since killing people wilth pistols and boomers is 10x more consistant. With this change grenades can actually be used as weapons and enough jammers can be carried that you can drop some CE w/out sacrificing your inventory options
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Old 2004-02-05, 12:44 PM   [Ignore Me] #111
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Originally Posted by Firefly
Whether they pulled it out of their ass or not. Look at it this way. And this isn't a logic thing, a twisty thing, or anything else, just an attempt to compromise on viewpoints and find a happy little tree in the middle ground.

Heavy Assault: four certs, one weapon (presume you don't loot).
SA Currently: three certs, three weapons (presume no CC)
AV Currently: three certs, one weapon (again, presume no loot)

SA future: three certs, two weapons (no CC, presume there's no cross-cert use of Deci)
AV future: three certs, two weapons (presume no cross-cert usage of Decimator)

Now, I put HA in there because it's four friggin cert points for one weapon. I put current and future SA/AV simply to show that at least it brings a little balance. I thought it was ludicrous to pay three and four certs for one weapon, and then have a cert with three weapons at three certs. At least now (and this is the middle ground) you get two weapons for three certs, as opposed to one for three.

EDIT:

No. There are Brits in GI Joe. And the UK version of GI Joe is "Action Force".
I totaly agree with your assement, SA doe not stand for All Purpous(sp) Assualt it stands for Special Assualt, special as in special case senerios.

3 certs for 1 ineffective weapon is just a bit overpriced. But 3 certs for one overpowered weapons and one ineffective weapons about to be buffed is ok just about right.

IMHO the RR and thumper are good enough to merit a 3 cp cert all on thier own.

Most people get SA just for the Deci anyway, it not like your losing anything
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Old 2004-02-05, 12:52 PM   [Ignore Me] #112
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I'm still dumbfounded that 3 certs is acceptable for the Bolt Driver alone and a 'ripoff' for the Thumper and Rocklet.
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Old 2004-02-05, 12:53 PM   [Ignore Me] #113
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Originally Posted by Queensidecastle
I almost never see infiltrators using grenades ever to attack with and on the rare occasion I do, its plasma and they dont have a chance at actually killing you with them. The only time Grenades are good for Infils is if they are pitching them off walls or down stairs and that is no different that anyone else does with thumpers and tends to be grief heavy.
They do limit the inventory, but I use them frequently in various capacity.

I've killed a few goobers with Plasma. I tossed a Jammer at someone because they were looking for me with darklight, and then I AMP'd his ass. I also use the Jammer to set off my ACE boomers that I place when Flail hunting. Another trick I use is carrying a frag grenade to divert attention from myself (in addition to possibly damaging a target), and then using the diversion to put bullets or a knife in someone.

They have their uses, but you are correct. They are by and large useless except under exceptional use.

EDIT:
Originally Posted by Madcow
I'm still dumbfounded that 3 certs is acceptable for the Bolt Driver alone and a 'ripoff' for the Thumper and Rocklet.
The Bolt Driver is almost a one-shot kill weapon, two shots at optimal. The three-cert cost for that one weapon is acceptable to me, and thus not an issue.
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Old 2004-02-05, 12:56 PM   [Ignore Me] #114
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Thats because it is a pure false analogy and false analogies dont make any sense

The sniper at 3 certs has been that way since release for almost a year. The SA cert has been in tact at 3 weapons since release for almost a year. So if you have a problem with that inequity, then you have had a problem with it since release. If you havent had a problem with that then you considered each package worth its 3 points. Removing Deci from SA reduced the value of the SA package. Its really not rocket science.
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Old 2004-02-05, 12:56 PM   [Ignore Me] #115
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Killing with plasma 'nades as an infiltrator used to be one of my joys, but I got fed up with the inventory restriction so I'm hopeful I can get that going again. Stand on top of a tall rock in a high traffic area and rain hell down on a number of people, watch them drop as they run around looking for the guy with the Thumper.
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Old 2004-02-05, 12:58 PM   [Ignore Me] #116
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The Rocklet and Thumper will also be much more practical after the ammo changes next patch.
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Old 2004-02-05, 01:01 PM   [Ignore Me] #117
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Originally Posted by Firefly
The Bolt Driver is almost a one-shot kill weapon, two shots at optimal. The three-cert cost for that one weapon is acceptable to me, and thus not an issue.
And I agree with that, I don't think it's unacceptable. The Bolt Driver is also useful in less situations than the Rocklet and Thumper. I don't believe 3 certs for those 2 weapons is out of line either.

Originally Posted by Queensidecastle
Thats because it is a pure false analogy and false analogies dont make any sense

The sniper at 3 certs has been that way since release for almost a year. The SA cert has been in tact at 3 weapons since release for almost a year. So if you have a problem with that inequity, then you have had a problem with it since release. If you havent had a problem with that then you considered each package worth its 3 points. Removing Deci from SA reduced the value of the SA package. Its really not rocket science.
SA has always been underpriced for what it was. I've said it before and I've seen others say it before. You had a bargain bin cert and got used to it, that doesn't mean that the change is wrong. Did they reduce the value of the SA package? That's certainly one way of saying it, although I would say they made the package more in line with the cost. The K-Mart cert is gone, hallelujah. The analogy is still intact and rocket science is kept safely away from this board. I'm sure NASA is breathing a sigh of relief.
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Old 2004-02-05, 01:04 PM   [Ignore Me] #118
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Originally Posted by Queensidecastle
Removing Deci from SA reduced the value of the SA package. Its really not rocket science.
Sure it's not, except when you fail to factor in this:

Originally Posted by Warborn
The Rocklet and Thumper will also be much more practical after the ammo changes next patch.
The ammo increases bring it somewhat back up. AND it's not going to be a gap in coverage, since it reportedly happens in one patch.

It's not a false analogy to say, "three certs for three (or four) weapons is overpriced compared to four certs for one weapon or three certs for one weapon or three certs for one empire-specific piece of shit." It's just a failure to face facts and use a little math.
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Old 2004-02-05, 01:07 PM   [Ignore Me] #119
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I already had a complete discussion on the fact that Sony decided to tell us the Deci was moving and didnt announce any of those other changes. Now that we know what else is coming, it is not nearly as bad. This is still contingient in what order we recieve the patches. Why do I have to type this over again?
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Old 2004-02-05, 01:15 PM   [Ignore Me] #120
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Because you keep repeating the same argument. And you ignore the fact that according to the Ammo Change notes, it says these changes are supposed to happen "patch-after-next". Ammo changes and weapons changes.
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