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View Poll Results: Do you think Planetside is heading for worse or better?
Worse 14 17.72%
Better 53 67.09%
I don't care 7 8.86%
Worse, I'm going to cancel my subscription 5 6.33%
Voters: 79. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2004-03-18, 04:19 PM   [Ignore Me] #76
Kikinchikin
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amen loop.

I think you're going to get people that are angry for the most part because they can't use surge with weapons in scenarios like this:

You hope off a base wall and see 3 guys a ways down the wall running. You're equipped with only an MCG. What do you do now? No surge so you won't catch em.

You're creaping up on snipers, and you want to close the gap quicker, but an enemy knows where you are and is shooting at you. It's gonna take a lot longer time now, and you can't return fire.

You're trying to avoid enemy fire and still return some. Can't do it as easily now.

Surge has many practical uses that don't involve warping, but do involve having your weapon out. This was not the way to fix it. If anything at least allow people to carry any weapon aside from HA while surging. I dunno, but it seems like they are jipping people of an implant that has many good, tactical uses other than warping.
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Old 2004-03-18, 04:20 PM   [Ignore Me] #77
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yeah, but no one's fuckin' with my analogy! yeah! that's right! YEAH!

"ladies and gentlemen, that was an invitation to use something in oddfish's analogy against him. Please take this opportunity to rip him a new one, he greatly deserves it for his constant and undeniable arrogance. the fucker."
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Old 2004-03-18, 04:20 PM   [Ignore Me] #78
Krinsath
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Originally Posted by infinite loop
I'm a bit confused why you are mixing the speedstepping issue with warping. They are mutually exclusive. If they are saying that the cause of warping is due to some fundamentally flawed code in the engine/framework, and it isn't cost-effective to fix it, then fine, I wish they'd just admit that. Instead, they're saying some nonsense about offensive combat with surge not being an intended form of gameplay that they designed. They don't even mention warping, and they're just trying to cover it up. If it's fixable, then fix it! Why is that so difficult to understand?
I agree that speedstepping and warping are totally unrelated, though they do manifest the same symptoms.

The Devs did not want the fast "boom boom dead" feel of the other FPSes because that doesn't encourage serious teamwork and takes away from the tactical feel. That is the general premise of PS: Teamwork. Using a group of people with different roles to accomplish the same objective, not "one guy does everything"


Originally Posted by Infinite Loop
My satire was used because you're suggesting that all surgilers bunny hop to induce warping. That's just plain ignorant, as a huge percentage of people I play with as NC use surgile, but I rarely see anyone warp. Again, using surgile does not necessitate bunny hopping.
Much like warping does not necessitate jumping. If you don't see anyone warp, congratulations. What about the fair number of people who DO have this problem? They don't deserve a solution? They're paying just as much as you are.

Originally Posted by Infinite Loop
It's this negative attitude towards players leaving that gets me. Don't you think having more subscriptions is a good thing? Or only subscriptions of people who use a playstyle that you approve of? Oh and the NC are most definitely receiving a nerf, big time. The range issue and imbalance of the JH will come to light after this next patch. And your surging argument is complete and utter nonsense. While I'm surging up to the enemy position, I'm more than likely to be taking damage while not dishing any out myself. That would equal me losing that battle.
Subscriptions are a good thing, but the Surge issue could just as easily have cost PS as many subscriptions from people who were looking for something other than Quake and discovered the Surge bugs or people who got fed up with the bugs and left as this change will. Maybe not. Fact is that you don't know. Please refrain from acting like you do.

I also believe that Surgile are the reason the JH has been nerfed to uselessness outside of point-blank. Maybe after they have "gotten rid" of that style, the Devs will be able to see the numbers proving it. If that is the case, I'm going to have to laugh my ass off that Surgiles shot themselves in the foot by inflating the numbers.

Originally Posted by Infinite Loop
Whether or not they wanted the twitch gamers to play or not, they got them, and now they're basically trying to get rid of them. Sometimes I like the fast surgile play, other times I prefer to tank around in my rexo. It's the variety that keeps it fresh and on your toes.
They're not trying to get rid of them, they're saying "This is a different game, the same tricks don't work." If the Surgile chooses to leave, that's their choice (though I feel it is a very immature one, that's opinion). As you yourself point out, there are a variety of equally fun playstyles that have nothing to do with Surge.

Originally Posted by Infinite Loop
I'm not defending warping. I am defending a playstyle.
As is your right. However, the playstyle is not being done away with, simply modified. You have exactly zero concrete data on how this will affect things. As I mentioned to Queensidecastle, until the patch is on the Test Server, please hold your opinions on what the effects will be to yourself, the community has gone round and round on this enough.

Originally Posted by Infinite Loop
Exactly what statistics are available to back up this statement? How do you know that a majority of the playerbase is behind this change? How do you know that only a handful of players are going to be affected? I think you're going to be surprised, and not in a good way, how detrimental this change is going to be to the long-term health of PS.
The fact that the boards are pretty evenly divided says the majority of the playerbase supports it. Why does that work that way? Because if someone told you that anyone who had loop in their name was going to be banned, you can be damned sure everyone with "loop" in their name is going to be on the boards protesting. Those in favor would have a smaller percentage voicing their support, as theirs is the side being served. Hence, if you have 80% of the surgiles, and 50% of the rest of the player base, that would equate to a majority supporting the change. Are these solid statistics? No...but then again you have none either.

As far as it being a bad long-term desicion, refer to above. For all you know, there could be next to no effect other than to make things even...and if that kills off Surgile, that kind of tells me that it wasn't that viable of a playstyle to begin with.
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Old 2004-03-18, 04:30 PM   [Ignore Me] #79
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Man, all I gotta say is, you have the surgile playstyle a bit misunderstood. This nerf will in fact kill it, because it centers around having a weapon out while surging. So umm, how am I supposed to continue with this playstyle again? Ok, my point is made, I'm done here.
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Old 2004-03-18, 04:34 PM   [Ignore Me] #80
Krinsath
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Originally Posted by infinite loop
Man, all I gotta say is, you have the surgile playstyle a bit misunderstood. This nerf will in fact kill it, because it centers around having a weapon out while surging. So umm, how am I supposed to continue with this playstyle again? Ok, my point is made, I'm done here.
Use surge to get around the guy firing at you. Why should someone who has to move down a hallway have an advantage over someone who's in a prepared firing position? Simple answer: they don't. Surgiles will need to adapt a bit perhaps, but so will all those Lasher users that now actually have to aim to kill people.
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Old 2004-03-18, 04:39 PM   [Ignore Me] #81
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yeah.. besides, one thing i think we overlook is the fact that if a human being zipped about the landscape firing a weapon he'd be so amazingly inaccurate it would be impractical to do it in the first place. I mean, i think that surging and shooting should've been so amazingly inaccurate as to be useless. let's be honest, if you're sprinting around at top speed in real life, without surge, aiming is pointless, you're bullets are gonna fly everywhere.. let's put nerfing aside, surgile+shooting=unrealistic to begin with.
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Old 2004-03-18, 05:08 PM   [Ignore Me] #82
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surgile+shooting=unrealistic to begin with
that statement is so wrong, man. ever heard of a HART picking you up in Los Angeles, taking you to orbit and dropping you out of a pod in New York? or ever seen someone get blown to shit by a tank and turn to red dust? for that matter, wheres the blood in Planetside? surely, humans in the future still bleed? or are these humans spawned from some Programmers imagination because hes creating a video game and not a simulator?
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Old 2004-03-18, 05:09 PM   [Ignore Me] #83
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Old 2004-03-18, 05:18 PM   [Ignore Me] #84
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Infinite Loop I hate to tell you this, but Planetside doesn't revolve around surge.
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Old 2004-03-18, 05:21 PM   [Ignore Me] #85
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originally posted by kidriot:
that statement is so wrong, man. ever heard of a HART picking you up in Los Angeles, taking you to orbit and dropping you out of a pod in New York? or ever seen someone get blown to shit by a tank and turn to red dust? for that matter, wheres the blood in Planetside? surely, humans in the future still bleed? or are these humans spawned from some Programmers imagination because hes creating a video game and not a simulator?
okay, here's the problem. the futuristic addition of the HART concept is part of the sci-fi space based concept of the game. no blood because having to render blood and what not might have been to hard to code or some junk. spawning is crucial to the game because that's how it works. but the aiming and shooting are based on REAL LIFE PHYSICS.. the HART and Respawn are NOT based on real life physics. if you base something in real life then it should always maintain it's real life characteristics. I can't even believe you'd compare the surgile+shooting flaw to the existence of the HART and respawning and lack of blood. that's so stupid. the aiming code in this game is based upon a realistic concept of shooting a firearm. SO, if i run and gun, no matter how fast, i should be ubelieveably inaccurate, and at close to 30mph i shouldn't be able to hit shit. that's the realism of the aiming concept. you're argument makes little to no sense as a comparison.
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Old 2004-03-18, 05:30 PM   [Ignore Me] #86
Krinsath
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Originally Posted by oddfish
okay, here's the problem. the futuristic addition of the HART concept is part of the sci-fi space based concept of the game. no blood because having to render blood and what not might have been to hard to code or some junk. spawning is crucial to the game because that's how it works. but the aiming and shooting are based on REAL LIFE PHYSICS.. the HART and Respawn are NOT based on real life physics. if you base something in real life then it should always maintain it's real life characteristics. I can't even believe you'd compare the surgile+shooting flaw to the existence of the HART and respawning and lack of blood. that's so stupid. the aiming code in this game is based upon a realistic concept of shooting a firearm. SO, if i run and gun, no matter how fast, i should be ubelieveably inaccurate, and at close to 30mph i shouldn't be able to hit shit. that's the realism of the aiming concept. you're argument makes little to no sense as a comparison.
Just as an FYI, the blood was left out due to ESRB concerns and SOE wanting the game to receive the Teen rating instead of Mature....apparently, killing people = OK!...Killing people with blood = BAD!

Just another illustration of lazy parents ruining everything...if you don't want your kids to play violent video games, then don't just let them sit at the computer all day without being watched. Getting tired of things being left out because Little Johnnie might be warped...like he isn't going to be already with such repressed parents.
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Old 2004-03-18, 05:47 PM   [Ignore Me] #87
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You're right honestly. I probably am a bit too quick to accuse them of taking the easy way out. But like you said, we don't know, because they won't tell us! If it's a technical limitation, I will fully accept that and deal with it. But why must they dance around the issue?
As I said, I too wish they'd just come out and say it. I kinda doubt they will though.

As to why they haven't, I can give you a theoretical reason: Because companies generally don't want to publically admit to mistakes if they don't have to. Even considering how complicated PS is, and that I doubt anyone would really be up in arms about it, it's often corperate policy to not admit you messed up unless you really have to.
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Old 2004-03-18, 05:55 PM   [Ignore Me] #88
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Originally Posted by Happy lil' Elf
As I said, I too wish they'd just come out and say it. I kinda doubt they will though.

As to why they haven't, I can give you a theoretical reason: Because companies generally don't want to publically admit to mistakes if they don't have to. Even considering how complicated PS is, and that I doubt anyone would really be up in arms about it, it's often corperate policy to not admit you messed up unless you really have to.
Look at the bitchfest that's raised anytime they change what they said originally. If they come out and say "we can't fix it" and then by some lucky happenstance, they figure out "wait...if we do X" then people will come out of the woodwork screaming that the Devs KNEW it all along and just wanted to nerf Surgiles as part of some grand plot orchestrated by Sporkfire through coded messages on the forums (LOOK AT THE THIRD LETTER OF EVERY POST TITLE! HE SPELLS OUT "JH BUFF NEXT PATCH" *waits for the gullible amongst us to return*).

Conspiracy nuts are everywhere....watch your back, they're watching you. (For those who missed it, that's irony)
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