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Old 2012-07-11, 12:03 PM   [Ignore Me] #46
Flaropri
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Re: Will Planetside 2 be playable with a gamepad / xbox 360 controller?


Originally Posted by 2coolforu View Post
Wrrrry

Seriously, you can buy like a really decent mouse for £15.
I'm not sure if you guys just get shafted on prices or if you have really high standards for decency (or both).

I got my mouse for I think less than $10 USD and it works quite well for my gaming needs. Granted this was a while ago, haven't accounted for inflation. Basic Optical from Microsoft. *shrug*


On the topic of console controls: Mouse control is always superior to game-pads, simply due to additional precision. However, I can perfectly understand a given person being used to playing the game on a controller and thus feeling like they are better than mouse/keyboard. Personally, the only console FPS I played at any length was Golden Eye and Perfect Dark on N64. It'd take getting used to, but if I could play them with mouse/keyboard I would.

I did mess around with Halo at a friends house once, and I can say I prefer the PC port simply for the controls.

Last edited by Flaropri; 2012-07-11 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 2012-07-11, 12:05 PM   [Ignore Me] #47
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Re: Will Planetside 2 be playable with a gamepad / xbox 360 controller?


Originally Posted by The Kush View Post
All the PC elitist claim a mouse and keyboard is more precise and gives you an advantage, let's see the data.

Oh thats right, you can only post a couple bull shit articles that some elitist wrote.
You're right. It doesn't look like anybody has done an in-depth study.

There's only articles like this:

http://techcrunch.com/2010/07/21/did...-were-too-bad/

Lots of them... eveywhere. There seems to be a general concensus everywhere that the mouse and keyboard crushes the gamepad, but still it hasn't been really tested.

To most people, it's really obvious. Just watch footage of any FPS on PC and compare it to footage on the xBox. I can instantly tell the difference and detect the imprecise movement of the controller on the console.

Speaking from my experience... Within the L4D2 scavenge community, which will kick you from a game without hesitation if you are slow or inept in any way, nobody plays with a gamepad. EVER. Why? Because they'll be slow and inept and will get kicked without hesitation.

I think we need to do a more substantial study with several users before we can draw a true conclusion.
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Old 2012-07-11, 12:08 PM   [Ignore Me] #48
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Re: Will Planetside 2 be playable with a gamepad / xbox 360 controller?


Originally Posted by WildVS View Post
I used to think this was solely a console players request but on official forums last year I was spouting off the same "get a mouse noob" comment. Until the requester pointed out he had arthritis or some other handicap and the controllers were a matter of ergonomic necessity. At that point I felt like crawling under a rock
Exactly. I have a friend with severe carpal tunnel and a mouse/keyboard really seems to bother him, but a controller doesn't. I'll be playing with a keyboard, but I'll have trouble with the non-neutral hand placement, as lifting weights has given me some of the same problems. My laptop's keyboard (just like the OP's friend's) Isn't ergonomically designed, its flat. This causes unnatural wrist tension as a sacrifice for portability. It isn't always about "Ozmgz, why would you not be super comepetive and get the edge using a mouse!".

Shit, I even have a friend trying PS2 who has NEVER played a PC game and has used a controller all his life. Considering he may not be a planetside 'lifer' like some in here, it doesn't make sense for him to learn a new format when he'll move on in less than a year. Unless planetside really does change the industry, that is .

I hate it when someone asks a simple qeustion, and instead of being helpful, everyone tries to turn it into elitism.

To answer OP's question, I don't think support is confirmed yet, but I can't imagine a modern game NOT having support. And I'll take anything that increases that player base, because at this point its more important to me for PS2 to be popular at launch than elite

Last edited by OnexBigxHebrew; 2012-07-11 at 12:09 PM.
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Old 2012-07-11, 12:10 PM   [Ignore Me] #49
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Re: Will Planetside 2 be playable with a gamepad / xbox 360 controller?


My thread
http://www.planetside-universe.com/s...ad.php?t=40618

Original thread with dev comment
http://www.planetside-universe.com/s...ght=Controller
Originally Posted by CyclesMcHurtz View Post
Most developers don't know how to make the controller good. I used to stomp all over PC players when testing the PS3 builds on my last project.
So as everyone can clearly see now, the elitist on the last page cant provide any solid evidence, thanks noobs do your research next time you make an argument.

Cheers!

Kush out
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Old 2012-07-11, 12:16 PM   [Ignore Me] #50
Envenom
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Re: Will Planetside 2 be playable with a gamepad / xbox 360 controller?


Originally Posted by The Kush View Post
My thread
http://www.planetside-universe.com/s...ad.php?t=40618

Original thread with dev comment
http://www.planetside-universe.com/s...ght=Controller


So as everyone can clearly see now, the elitist on the last page cant provide any solid evidence, thanks noobs do your research next time you make an argument.

Cheers!

Kush out


Also, to quote the article posted above:

Every single time the PC gamer killed the console gamer. And I don’t mean killed as in “fragged,” but killed as in the PC gamer knocked the teeth out of the console gamers every single time.
I like your tenacity though. You get a brownie point.
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Last edited by Envenom; 2012-07-11 at 12:18 PM.
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Old 2012-07-11, 12:21 PM   [Ignore Me] #51
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Re: Will Planetside 2 be playable with a gamepad / xbox 360 controller?


Originally Posted by Envenom View Post


Also, to quote the article posted above:



I like your tenacity though. You get a brownie point.


You just quoted the article he said had no solid evidence or data. Just opinions. Are you seriously that retarted?
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Old 2012-07-11, 12:23 PM   [Ignore Me] #52
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Re: Will Planetside 2 be playable with a gamepad / xbox 360 controller?


Here is a good comparison, although still biased.


He turned off aim assist and turned up sensitivity on the controller to 10. I think he should have left aim assist on. The mouse and keyboard still would have won.

And this:


To quote Fatality. "A console with a controller has no control."

Last edited by Luieburger; 2012-07-11 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 2012-07-11, 12:27 PM   [Ignore Me] #53
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Re: Will Planetside 2 be playable with a gamepad / xbox 360 controller?


Originally Posted by Luieburger View Post
Here is a good comparison, although still biased.

Gamepad Vs. Mouse and Keyboard w/ Commentary - YouTube

He turned off aim assist and turned up sensitivity on the controller to 10. I think he should have left aim assist on. The mouse and keyboard still would have won.
Man, does anyone even care about the OP in here? lol.
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Old 2012-07-11, 12:30 PM   [Ignore Me] #54
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Re: Will Planetside 2 be playable with a gamepad / xbox 360 controller?


Originally Posted by The Kush View Post
I agree. Quake is the one game that I clearly see the keyboard and mouse being better. Halo is a game I see the controller being better. It depends on what the game is tailored to.
If you wanted to argue that keyboard and mouse were equal to a controller in Halo, I'd probably agree with you. If you were to argue that a controller is better in Street Fighter, I'd agree with you.

But a controller is better in Halo? Better as a personal preference maybe, but a keyboard and mouse will have no problem keeping up with a controller in Halo.

FPS games are essentially point and click. Why not use a controller for everything on a PC? Web browsing, Photoshop, etc.

A controller will never be better for controlling an FPS game unless they deliberately gimp the keyboard and mouse artificially. But there will be games where they are closer to even.

In Planetside 2's case, from what I've seen I'd argue that it's somewhere in between. Controllers won't be completely disenfranchised (especially with all of the F2P noobs that will probably be running around making for easy targets), but keyboard and mouse still will have an advantage, especially on faster paced classes like Light Assault.
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Old 2012-07-11, 12:30 PM   [Ignore Me] #55
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Re: Will Planetside 2 be playable with a gamepad / xbox 360 controller?


Originally Posted by Luieburger View Post
Here is a good comparison, although still biased.

Gamepad Vs. Mouse and Keyboard w/ Commentary - YouTube

He turned off aim assist and turned up sensitivity on the controller to 10. I think he should have left aim assist on. The mouse and keyboard still would have won.

And this:

PC vs Console ( which one is better) - YouTube

To quote Fatality. "A console with a controller has no control."
You are intelligent my friend. I appreciate you acknowledging fallacies. As you have said, the articles and videos are all very biased. I'm the type of person that isn't going to say one or the other is better until you show me solid evidence backed by statistics. Otherwise it's one opinion over another, and that's a fools game.

Originally Posted by Xyntech View Post
If you wanted to argue that keyboard and mouse were equal to a controller in Halo, I'd probably agree with you. If you were to argue that a controller is better in Street Fighter, I'd agree with you.

But a controller is better in Halo? Better as a personal preference maybe, but a keyboard and mouse will have no problem keeping up with a controller in Halo.

FPS games are essentially point and click. Why not use a controller for everything on a PC? Web browsing, Photoshop, etc.

A controller will never be better for controlling an FPS game unless they deliberately gimp the keyboard and mouse artificially. But there will be games where they are closer to even.

In Planetside 2's case, from what I've seen I'd argue that it's somewhere in between. Controllers won't be completely disenfranchised (especially with all of the F2P noobs that will probably be running around making for easy targets), but keyboard and mouse still will have an advantage, especially on faster paced classes like Light Assault.
Yes better on Halo because I can throw a grenade, bash my weapon at you, duck and crouch, and shoot while moving side to side. On a keyboard you would still be trying to find your keys, thats if you even have purchased a keyboard that allows simultaneously pressing of different keys, which can be rather expensive.

Originally Posted by CyclesMcHurtz View Post
Not everyone likes this - it's harder on the hands and wrists for some to use a mouse and keyboard. Twitch games are easier to control with a properly setup pad (there are difficulties - see below). I've played a certain action MMO with both, and boy let me tell you the mouse is MUCH less fun in that case.




This is actually a major failing point of many developers - this is how they map the mouse to the joystick, thinking it helps. It usually has the opposite effect and actually makes the controls much less predictable and usually presents problems (getting STUCK on the wrong target, having extra code to figure out what target you want, which is always wrong at some point).

On other projects I have discussed this at length. In game, the controller has a definite advantage if done right - a mouse has no defined center point, it's all feel - the controller has a defined center point. This can be designed around.

The key is to design the control scheme to fit the device (mouse, keyboard, joystick, controller, foot pedals, whatever). This takes much more time than developers usually spend - it's more about mapping mouse x/y to right joystick, button A to F key and so on.

There are other limitations to keyboards that present a significant problem as well - the number of keys that can be pressed at once, and what the keyboard can tell you about them. All keyboards have limitations, while the controllers actually report each and every button press and pressure accurately. I have one keyboard where if I hold down [A] and [W], I cannot press [G] - it simply doesn't register. There are many places to find this out, but all keyboards have a particular setup that just won't work.

The job of the UI designers is to understand all of this and set up a system that allows everyone to have a great experience interacting with all aspects of the game. We make choices, and at some point we will definitely get the default setting wrong -I know this. I read the interwebs
I'll trust the professionals, this is a PS2 dev stating facts.
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Old 2012-07-11, 12:39 PM   [Ignore Me] #56
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Re: Will Planetside 2 be playable with a gamepad / xbox 360 controller?


Originally Posted by The Kush View Post
You are intelligent my friend. I appreciate you acknowledging fallacies. As you have said, the articles and videos are all very biased. I'm the type of person that isn't going to say one or the other is better until you show me solid evidence backed by statistics. Otherwise it's one opinion over another, and that's a fools game.
This isn't an outrageous claim that requires extraordinary proof, but I'll concede that I haven't seen much in the way of hard empirical evidence backed studies on the matter.

All of the gameplay footage and personal experience I've had is enough to convince me though. FPS games may sometimes be more fun on a controller (if they play like shit with a keyboard and mouse), but I've never seen one where a keyboard and mouse couldn't have kept up just as well. I can't say the same for all keyboard and mouse based shooters being viable on a controller, which is more than enough evidence for me.
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Old 2012-07-11, 12:53 PM   [Ignore Me] #57
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Re: Will Planetside 2 be playable with a gamepad / xbox 360 controller?


Originally Posted by Xyntech View Post
This isn't an outrageous claim that requires extraordinary proof, but I'll concede that I haven't seen much in the way of hard empirical evidence backed studies on the matter.

All of the gameplay footage and personal experience I've had is enough to convince me though. FPS games may sometimes be more fun on a controller (if they play like shit with a keyboard and mouse), but I've never seen one where a keyboard and mouse couldn't have kept up just as well. I can't say the same for all keyboard and mouse based shooters being viable on a controller, which is more than enough evidence for me.
Xyntech please refer to the dev statements above for your answer. It's not the hardware, it's the devs doing an awful job at the software for the hardware.
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Old 2012-07-11, 12:57 PM   [Ignore Me] #58
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Re: Will Planetside 2 be playable with a gamepad / xbox 360 controller?


Originally Posted by Xyntech View Post
This isn't an outrageous claim that requires extraordinary proof, but I'll concede that I haven't seen much in the way of hard empirical evidence backed studies on the matter.

All of the gameplay footage and personal experience I've had is enough to convince me though.
Same here. To me (and a majority of others) it is just plain obvious which control option has the most limitations, and which one is more accurate.

Yet, we don't have a good study. This sounds like a study for a user interface design grad student to take up and publish results.

I can understand some people picking the controller because of personal preference, but they do need to realize that they will be nerfing themselves. I think we've made that clear to the OP.

Heck... I use a non-gas push mower to mow my lawn, but I understand that I use it because of personal preference. The gas or electric mowers get the job done a lot better, much faster, and come with a lot of nice features. Yet, I still chose the old squeaky non-gas push mower because of personal preference. I'm not stupid. I realize the difference.

I think the same thing goes for controller preference, and yes... even for the console vs PC arguments. I'm ok with people choosing to use inferior hardware, but I'll definitely take the time to let them know that there are better options out there and explain why those options are better.
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Old 2012-07-11, 01:01 PM   [Ignore Me] #59
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Re: Will Planetside 2 be playable with a gamepad / xbox 360 controller?


To the people claiming that you need to be able to press 10 keys at once, I ask: why? I can't think of any reason why a person would need more than three or four keys pressed at any given time. Sprinting forward while zig-zagging with the strafe keys is about the most multiple inputs I can think of, and that's only three buttons at a time. Most good-quality keyboards can handle at least three simultaneous keys, so it's a non-issue.

In any case, the OP's question about whether gamepads will be usable. Since they are simply joysticks in a different configuration, the answer is yes. How playable the game is when you're using one is a different story, and highly dependent on the gamepad, the actions bound to it, how it's used, and the player.
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Old 2012-07-11, 01:06 PM   [Ignore Me] #60
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Re: Will Planetside 2 be playable with a gamepad / xbox 360 controller?


Originally Posted by The Kush View Post
Xyntech please refer to the dev statements above for your answer. It's not the hardware, it's the devs doing an awful job at the software for the hardware.
Certainly some developers have done an excellent job at squeezing as much speed and accuracy out of a thumbstick as is humanly possible, but that doesn't change the fact that a mouse is specifically designed to do one thing very well: Point and click. Point and click is exactly the same as the central gameplay mechanic of FPS games, so... There you go.

An FPS that plays shitty with a keyboard and mouse can still be successfully played competitively against a gamepad, it's just an annoying experience. The same can't be said for a gamepad in the opposite scenario.

That should be a pretty strong indication right there. You have to put a lot of effort to make a gamepad be a viable FPS control method. A lot of effort into making the game play into a gamepads strengths, and a lot of effort towards making the gamepads software interface have the right balance of sensitivity.

I can play well with a shitty mouse, regardless of software, and while I won't be as good as when I'm playing with a better mouse, and software that is more comfortable and familiar, it still will be viable.

I could design an FPS that is specifically designed to be controlled well by those bongo drums from the N64, but that wouldn't make it a superior FPS control method.
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