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Old 2012-07-02, 01:49 PM   [Ignore Me] #31
robocpf1
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Re: Lasher, Jackhammer and MCG.


Originally Posted by p0intman View Post
fuck ha. guass/sweeper for the motherfucking win.
I agree with p0int.

You guys use Heavy Assault?

Scrubs.
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Old 2012-07-02, 02:43 PM   [Ignore Me] #32
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Talking Re: Lasher, Jackhammer and MCG.


Originally Posted by Kalbuth View Post
You're getting overly defensive
Bro, you better come at me or die tryin' Show respect to the best player or face an early grave.
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Old 2012-07-02, 02:52 PM   [Ignore Me] #33
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Re: Lasher, Jackhammer and MCG.


Originally Posted by Verruna View Post
In my mind planetsides netcode/player warping combined with lasher orbs having to be led and general inaccuracy of the weapon itself makes the lasher a piece of garbage in its current state. If you manage to direct hit land all your orbs its decent though, LOL. Its not completely useless but its the worst HA.
This. With strafe warping, the only way you will beat someone is if they strafe predictably or by luck. The warp is too fast for the lasher's orbs unless you're shoving it up their butts. So what is happening is that you are either 1) leading, in which they will not move into the orb, or 2) aim directly at them, and they will strafe away from it.

The lasher definitely has its uses, but it's nowhere near as effective as the MCG outdoors just under MA range or the JH when wallhumped. Lasher spamming doors/hallways and while retreating around corners is good. It can beat a JH pretty easily at longer ranges.

But to be honest, I only really keep HA on my VS character to loot JHs and MCGs. Recently I've been getting back into the sweeper (kept forgetting they buffed it to 12 shots in a clip) and I find it comparable. If I keep doing well I might pump those points into something more useful.
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Old 2012-07-02, 02:53 PM   [Ignore Me] #34
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Re: Lasher, Jackhammer and MCG.


Originally Posted by Xaine View Post
Thank you for your reply, and i'm not trying to be a cock here.

But didn't you just contradict yourself pretty heavily there?

You said its frustrating that it never shoots where you want it too, and then you said learn to place your shots. :P

This is why I prefer the Sweeper. Sure its worse than a JH, but fuck me, at least its reliable. I know its range, i know what it can do and what it can't do.

Every time i pick up the Lasher i just never know if its going to hit every time, or miss every time.

I do play with a 180~ ping constantly because I'm in London, that coupled with the already suspect latency issues and hit recognition in Planetside makes some gunfights rather interesting.

Like, for example, me in a tower with an AI Max. A guy runs up the stairs towards me.. i move around the corner and start blasting him in the face, he looks at me for a second, puts away his gun, turns around and runs back down the stairs in a straight line and round the corner, while i'm constantly shooting him in the back, with hit markers everywhere. In an AI MAX. Its a Rexo i'm shooting at.

He doesn't die and just runs around the corner.


The thing i'm really looking forward to in PS2, more than anything, is having it so when i SHOOT people, they ACTUALY DIE.
Well no, what I'm trying to say is that if you just pick up the Lasher and go without any experience it is the most frustrating gun in the game because it doesn't ever shoot where you want it to. Once you use it enough however you start to learn where the orbs go in the cone and you can compensate your aim for it. It's taken me a long time with the new Lasher but I'm starting to get pretty good with it. If you're further away from an enemy than the distance between the two doors on a tower, never aim straight at him. You'll have to move the crosshair slightly to the left or to the right. If your first shot goes left, the next is going to go right. Etc.
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Old 2012-07-02, 05:38 PM   [Ignore Me] #35
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Re: Lasher, Jackhammer and MCG.


Originally Posted by Zulthus View Post
Well no, what I'm trying to say is that if you just pick up the Lasher and go without any experience it is the most frustrating gun in the game because it doesn't ever shoot where you want it to. Once you use it enough however you start to learn where the orbs go in the cone and you can compensate your aim for it. It's taken me a long time with the new Lasher but I'm starting to get pretty good with it. If you're further away from an enemy than the distance between the two doors on a tower, never aim straight at him. You'll have to move the crosshair slightly to the left or to the right. If your first shot goes left, the next is going to go right. Etc.
Ah i see, thank you for clarifying.
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Old 2012-07-02, 06:49 PM   [Ignore Me] #36
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Re: Lasher, Jackhammer and MCG.


I posted a HA balance thread that like everybody agrreed with...SOE then instead of only simply increasing the clip size to 40 and adding AP giving it a base single target damage of 1040 which is made up by the lash effect. made it equal with the other HA's, but instead they increase the orb speed, buff the clip and add AP and made it fucking OP, they then nerfed the lash, nerfed the clip and we;re left with the POS we have today.

hopefully with PS2 there will be several HA's so we might not get totally fucked this time.

The main issue with the lasher was always that you kill 2-3 people then you gotta reload, the MCG or JH you just hero mow cunts.
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Old 2012-07-02, 06:54 PM   [Ignore Me] #37
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Re: Lasher, Jackhammer and MCG.


Damage isn't the issue with the lasher, it's time-to-kill, part of that is accuracy and part of it is the time it takes between firing and making contact.

Old Lasher issues: Slow travel speed, not effective against AV, can hardly hit moving vehicles except at point blank.

New Lasher issues: Lash effect is near-useless, lower 1v1 or group fight TTK vs moving targets than other HA, can only reliably hit moving vehicles about 50m away, still can't effectively take non-AI MAX 1v1 with AV rounds.

Just give us the original lasher back but make the orbs travel faster. Maybe make us use a different ammo type for the AV rounds (even though that is very non-VS).
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Old 2012-07-02, 07:23 PM   [Ignore Me] #38
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Re: Lasher, Jackhammer and MCG.


Originally Posted by Neurotoxin View Post
Damage isn't the issue with the lasher, it's time-to-kill, part of that is accuracy and part of it is the time it takes between firing and making contact.

Old Lasher issues: Slow travel speed, not effective against AV, can hardly hit moving vehicles except at point blank.

New Lasher issues: Lash effect is near-useless, lower 1v1 or group fight TTK vs moving targets than other HA, can only reliably hit moving vehicles about 50m away, still can't effectively take non-AI MAX 1v1 with AV rounds.

Just give us the original lasher back but make the orbs travel faster. Maybe make us use a different ammo type for the AV rounds (even though that is very non-VS).
But the faster orbs with the lash was what made the uber-lasher so uber.

As was said earlier in this thread the original idea of a "lasher" and to balance the slow inaccurate orbs by adding the lash was just a bad idea. There was some discussion on the PS forums back during the OP lasher days that whatever they did seemed to increase hit detection of the lash possibly?
Anyway the Lasher now could use very slight tweaks. Basically shrink slightly the starting COF and give it one more shot before it blooms.
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Old 2012-07-02, 09:31 PM   [Ignore Me] #39
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Re: Lasher, Jackhammer and MCG.


Lashers:
v1.0: Crap (low damage, low rate of fire, slow moving orbs)
v2.0: OP (higher rate of fire, no damage degradation)
v3.0: Mediocre (decent CoF, low TTK, less ammo than other HA)
v4.0: Op (orb speed increase, lash does a crap ton of damage)
v5.0: Today (AP Mode, no lash damage)

Obviously these are just the big changes and it should be noted that around v3.0 and before the lasher did decent damage against armor and infantry. You could hold back doors with just a horde of lasher users and not worry about MAX crashes. After its AV nerf a suppressor with AV ammo had a faster TTK on MAXs and that was including the switch time.

The lasher does have 1 consistent good point. The lash can be used to light up cloakers. Substitutes for plasma.
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Old 2012-07-02, 09:38 PM   [Ignore Me] #40
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Re: Lasher, Jackhammer and MCG.


Originally Posted by Neurotoxin View Post
Damage isn't the issue with the lasher, it's time-to-kill, part of that is accuracy and part of it is the time it takes between firing and making contact.

Old Lasher issues: Slow travel speed, not effective against AV, can hardly hit moving vehicles except at point blank.

New Lasher issues: Lash effect is near-useless, lower 1v1 or group fight TTK vs moving targets than other HA, can only reliably hit moving vehicles about 50m away, still can't effectively take non-AI MAX 1v1 with AV rounds.

Just give us the original lasher back but make the orbs travel faster. Maybe make us use a different ammo type for the AV rounds (even though that is very non-VS).
If they give the old lasher back it would be best to no increase the travel time but leave it slow and upp the damage slightly(not the lash though) so while its hard to aim, you would be rewarded with a good TTK if you do aim well.

its stupid the the gun thats hardest to aim has the same TTK as the other guns.
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Old 2012-07-02, 10:05 PM   [Ignore Me] #41
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Re: Lasher, Jackhammer and MCG.


Originally Posted by DjEclipse View Post
Oh fuck no. I just want a totally new PS2 redesign, and all will be forgiven.
well yea, but this is PS1 discussion.

for PS2? Vortex whip or bust.
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Old 2012-07-03, 02:32 AM   [Ignore Me] #42
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Re: Lasher, Jackhammer and MCG.


Originally Posted by infy View Post
Weapons in ps doesn't really matter, it's all bout your aim. Sometimes i can kill people with the lasher way faster than the mcg/jh, clientside oi?


check out some of my vids :


Inf3rNaL #1 - YouTube
Thanks, this helped me a lot.

What's the first dub song btw?
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Old 2012-07-03, 06:50 AM   [Ignore Me] #43
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Re: Lasher, Jackhammer and MCG.


Originally Posted by Leet View Post
Thanks, this helped me a lot.

What's the first dub song btw?
Camo & Krooked - All Fall Down
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Old 2012-07-03, 10:16 AM   [Ignore Me] #44
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Re: Lasher, Jackhammer and MCG.


Originally Posted by Xaine View Post
This is the first time i've played PS1 in a while. I've seen the Lasher go through many changes, but currently i've come to the opinion that..

Its fucking awful.

You see TR running around with stolen JHs, and NC with MCGs.. and you see the VS with either... but i can't remember the last time i saw either the TR or NC with a Lasher.

I'd rather use the sweeper, and i do. The range is very short, yeah - but its TTK is actually good and it kills people? I do FAR better wth the sweeper than with the Lasher. Every time i come up against a JH or a MCG with a Lasher i get destroyed.

Am i just a baddie, or what?
I don't have many issues with the lasher personally, at most, I might miss 1 or 2 orbs, but I usually hit everything. Unless someone gets the jump on me and I'm not really paying attention.

The major reason you don't see alot of TR/NC running around with Lashers is they're a pain in the ass to store. In it's own sweet spot the lasher is better then both. The JH is superior at short range, the mcg is superior at long range.

Are you a baddie? Maybe, but just with a lasher.

Originally Posted by cryosin View Post
The problem with the Lasher is that it is simply a worse MCG.

It has a longer TTK, more recoil, slower rate of fire and you basically cant strafe and shoot the thing unless you're point blank.

The sad part is, its still our best indoor weapon outside of the sweeper(which is just worse than a Jackhammer).

I end up using it because I at least have a chance against other HA's, but it is un-deniably worse.

The Lasher was originally balanced around its "lash". It wouldn't always win 1v1, but its lashing made it very good in large numbers, which is what planetside is all about.

Unfortunately, the lash has been reduced to nothing. It literally does about 5% armor damage, regardless of which firing mode you use. That's right, 5%(maybe less?) of their ARMOR.... meaning you gotta chew through armor before it even matters. Essentially, the lash doesn't exist. Not to mention, the orb has to travel at least 10 feet before the lash effects anything.

I think if the lasher took 1 less hit to kill a rexo it would be balanced right now, but at this point it doesn't matter. They could never figure out how to balance the lash over the main target, and that's why it was always OP or UP.
You're wrong on a couple of points. The lasher's TTK is actually superior to the MCG's in rexo vs. rexo. MCG has a faster agile TTK, but then the sweeper beats both weapons in terms of agile ttk's. And it's very possible to strafe with the weapon, it just requires a funny thing called practice.

Making it require 1 less orb would basically make it a jackhammer with more range. The issue is not the damage, the TTK, the projectile speed or it's lash. The major issue is that the COF simply expands to it's max to quickly, making it a bitch to land that final orb on a target. Such as, simply decreasing the MAX cof slightly would fix this issue OR 1 less shot before the lasher COF begins to bloom.

Originally Posted by Xaine View Post
Given that I've played several FPS games competitively, I seriously doubt my aim is the issue here.

After about 4 shots the orbs start flying everywhere in a 45 degree cone in front of you. You can burst it, but then the TTK gets even worse.

The Jackhammer actually has a semi decent range for a shotgun. You can't kill the NC before he can run at you with the JH and destroy you.

The MCG has better range, less recoil and even at point blank the TTK seems pretty similar.

But yeah, PS2 soon I guess. Just you'd think in 9 years they would have managed to balance it.
Planetside is not most other FPS's, and I despise it when people try to compare it to other FPS games. Most FPS's weapons do not have travel time for their bullets, the only weapons in PS that lack travel time are shotguns, so every other weapon in the game requires a set amount of time for the projectile to reach the target. This obviously affects the lasher the most. So rather then straight Aiming being the issue, the ability to lead the target is what most players who complain about the lasher suffer from.

I usually land all but 1 or 2 of my orbs, and those are the last ones where the COF begins to expand.

You should never lose to a JH if he requires more then 4 shots to kill you.
You should never lost to an MCG at > 10 meters.


Originally Posted by Arkaiden View Post
Not only is it inaccurate, but the rounds are slow as dirt. Anyone even remotely in the way of a round from 50 feet out can dodge it.

Meanwhilst, I repeatedly got sniped by mcgs from 100 yards out.
Stop using the lasher in situations it's not meant to be in. Think of it like a shotgun in terms of range. Try using a pulsar.

Originally Posted by Bravix View Post
My major gripe is it's innacuracy and hit recognition.
Everyone suffers from hit recon issues. It's only happened one time with my new comp/internet, but it did take 50 mcg rounds to kill a rexo chinese player. It's not really the lasher, but an overall CSHD issue.


------------

For the posts regarding warping. The MCG suffers just as badly as the lasher against warpers, and you're fooling yourselves if you think it doesn't, the JH is fine with people who the simple method of waiting for the enemy to get into the crosshairs before firing.

-------

Regarding Lasher vs. MAX, every AP HA except AP JH is meh against max units.

--------

Regarding the old lasher's lash, this was retarded OP in several ways. 2 VS could hold the back door of a base without having to do anything but reload and get ammo, the lash completely prevent pushes down corridors unless you had an assload of max units. Then on top of that, it made it so hard to sneak into bases as a cloaker where passing lasher fire proceeded to melt your face.

In short, mixing HA ttk's with Special assault attributes is dumb.
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Old 2012-07-03, 11:19 AM   [Ignore Me] #45
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Re: Lasher, Jackhammer and MCG.


Originally Posted by Effective View Post
For the posts regarding warping. The MCG suffers just as badly as the lasher against warpers, and you're fooling yourselves if you think it doesn't, the JH is fine with people who the simple method of waiting for the enemy to get into the crosshairs before firing.
As I'm probably the only one having mentioned warping, really guys, relax. It's like I insulted you. Not my intention.
1) I never ever mentioned lasher suffering more from warping
2) I'm not even complaining about it. Just mentionning facts.
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