Improvement: Sniper scopes need more work

[Lanka]

Originally Posted by AnamNantom

Just to put my two cents in, my impression of an alternative would be to blur the background outside of the scope.

In the screenshots and video of PS2, I've seen use of a similar effect. If you take an object and hold it near one eye, that object is out of focus until you intentionally focus on it.

At least this way, it would be a slight compromise between the idea of blacking it out and showing a clear scene around the scope.

Sure, it'd still give you some situational awareness if something moves near you, which is kinda the point. It's been used in other games just for that effect too, so it's really not something far fetched.

For scoped weapons it better not be under "Depth of field" though - not all people like to keep that blurry crap on and turning it all off would give clear edge over people using it.

[akiadan]

I agree with the
Balance > utility/realism thing.

I feel that if im going to scope in 24/7 I deserve to be T-bagged and stabbed and killed in creative ways over, and over again.

[fb III IX ca IV]

I made a thread about a similar idea here. With assault rifle scopes, it seems like PS2 is going to take the route that most video games do and render the scene outside the scope, but the whole screen zooms in rather than just the scope, which is wrong. See the thread for pictures.

[MrMorton]

you guys do realize that rendering a zoomed image of what is going on, with an unzoomed background, is almost twice as difficult to render as you cannot just render the scene and place the scope overlay on top, but rather you have to render the scene twice, and then place that second render on top of the first in the confines of the scope (of course optimizing what actually gets rendered can help with that, but that requires a very specific feature in a game engine, which i would assume ps2 doesn't have). The only engine I know that is optimized for that type of picture in picture rendering in fps games is tripwire's modded version of ue3 that they used for ro2.


basically, people haven't done it because the effort involved to make it happen is disproportionate to the effect it has on gameplay.

[fb III IX ca IV]

Originally Posted by MrMorton

you guys do realize that rendering a zoomed image of what is going on, with an unzoomed background, is almost twice as difficult to render as you cannot just render the scene and place the scope overlay on top, but rather you have to render the scene twice, and then place that second render on top of the first in the confines of the scope (of course optimizing what actually gets rendered can help with that, but that requires a very specific feature in a game engine, which i would assume ps2 doesn't have). The only engine I know that is optimized for that type of picture in picture rendering in fps games is tripwire's modded version of ue3 that they used for ro2.


basically, people haven't done it because the effort involved to make it happen is disproportionate to the effect it has on gameplay.

Yes, I realize that, and have mentioned it in my thread, but with modern computers it is not as much an issue as it is with consoles. There could still be an option to disable it if you wanted more performance.

[EnderGraff]

Originally Posted by jabber

the black field is a trade off for using a higher magnification scope

balance > realism

I feel like this says it all. I mean, the game is set in space for gods sake, realism isn't really top priority at this point xD

However, as an avid hunter who has experience using hunting rifles that have significant recoil, I can tell you a few things. Yes, keeping both eyes open is possible once you get used to the feeling.

I can also tell you that many scopes require the shooter to move their eye fairly close to the actual scope in order to see the full image, so it doesn't look anything like Red Orchestra 2


The eye of the shooter is much to close the the scope to actually see their surroundings like the above image depicts.

I cannot speak for lower magnification scopes like the iconic ACOG 4x scope featured in most modern games, but with longer, higher zoom scopes (6x, 8x, 12x), you do not see much of your surroundings, even with both eyes open.

What you end up seeing is the blacked out surrounding of the scope, and if you keep the other eye open, you can see the what you are aiming at without the ring of the scope. Imagine if you took the image of the cross hair from your right eye (scope eye) and placed it over the image from your left eye (non-scoped). That is pretty much what you can see with both eyes open.

[XxAxMayxX]

I guess u have a point but this isn't the only game that has the black rims. It does give you disadvantages but thats only with sniper rifles.

[Pinkie Pie]

i agree with the idea of not having it cover up EVERYTHING. i like having some awareness of what's on it's way to put a knife in my ear.
+support.

[Lanka]

RO Osfront had option for 3d scopes. And PR-mod for BF2 had pretty good compromise with 3d scopes; any weapon with zooming scope blurs everything around the scope - it still zoomed everything, but it gives fairly good situational awareness.

So something between those two: only zoom the scope&blur everything around it.

I say have the feature in but behind an option. "It takes too much resources to render" isn't valid argument to implement feature that can be toggled on and off. Breaking news - PC tech moves forward every year and something that might now kick PC to its knees may run just fine with next generation of hardware. Long as the devs remember than PC gamers love settings menus with hundreds of options to fiddle around with it should be fine..

[vVRedOctoberVv]

@Lanka

He didn't say JUST about performance

He said it is not something any engine "just does". It's not just a case of "patch this in" sort of thing. Unless you're tweaking stats, most things have to be coded (which is not simple) and more to the point, when you're doing something like rendering multiple versions of the same thing at the same time at different levels of zoom and detail, it's something the ENGINE itself has to be SPECIFICALLY designed to do. If they did not BUILD it with that capability in mind, then it would have to be coded in, not just the act itself, but the support FOR the act.


-edit

The point of that idea being, it's not that it can't be done, or that systems can't support it, but it is a lot of work for very little gain.

[Gonefshn]

These are futuristic scopes, if you put your eye flush with the scope it would be black on all sides.

Either way, the FOV in the video from the OP is actually much worse than the one in the PS2 screen.

I prefer the black edges it locks you into your role and allows people to counter you more easily in your blind spots. Makes it fair.

[Synapse]

Originally Posted by fb III IX ca IV

Yes, I realize that, and have mentioned it in my thread, but with modern computers it is not as much an issue as it is with consoles. There could still be an option to disable it if you wanted more performance.

Yes, because rendering is totally not a worry when you have 1500 people all shooting at each other onscreen, unlike consoles which have _so_much_ to render.

If its hard on consoles its triple hard for PS2. They need to be absolutely spartan with their rendering pipeline if they are to avoid slowdowns with a thousand plus dynamic characters throwing missiles and dynamic lighting object at each other.

The rendering arguement is absolutely valid.

[Lanka]

Originally Posted by vVRedOctoberVv

@Lanka

The point of that idea being, it's not that it can't be done, or that systems can't support it, but it is a lot of work for very little gain.

I'm quite sure I meant if it can be done, it should, even if it'd hit the performance hard. Obviously if the engine simply can't do it..

[vVRedOctoberVv]

@Lanka
Yeah, of course. Sorry. I don't care for the "performance" argument either. I'm all for balls-to-the-walls everything :P