Jailed for telling a joke.

ChipMHazard · 2013-07-14, 09:28 AM

Just heard about this case. Justin Carter, and 18/19-year old Texan, was jailed for having made an offensive joke on Facebook or in League of Legends itself, a bit of confusion on where it happened.

The stupid joke being:
"I think Ima shoot up a kindergarten / And watch the blood of the innocent rain down/ And eat the beating heart of one of them."

Don't know why anyone would take that seriously in the first place, but he apparently also wrote "LOL" and "JK". The joke was made after having been called crazy in an internet argument. This however wasn't enough as he was reported by some woman and arrested back in february with the bail set at $500,000 for having made a terrorist threat, which can give him up to ten years.
He has made bail via donations, but not before having been beaten, and perhaps worse, while in jail.

First time I've heard about someone being punished so harshly for having made a stupid comment on the internet. So is where the US is going? Arresting people for making bad/offensive jokes over the internet? I'm all for ones actions having consequences but this just looks like complete overkill.

Edit: Thanks for the correction, Beast

Baneblade · 2013-07-14, 01:19 PM

Well it was in bad taste, but I don't see how he can get jail time from it... legally.

THrONeBeaST · 2013-07-14, 02:01 PM

he was charged with making "terroristic threats," which is a third-degree felony and can keep offenders in jail for up to ten years.

Good ole government after 9/11

Figment · 2013-07-14, 02:50 PM

Considering previous threats on social media having resulted in actual killing sprees and people in Texas owning loads of guns. Eh. Don't post that shit in public.

Honestly, this is just as bad as a prank bomb report. Context aside, such a comment is not suited for public websites, since nobody can tell if you actually are kidding.

(Note: it should be the police's task to verify whether or not context is relevant and a warning and fine etc is in place instead, but that depends on the laws made).

ChipMHazard · 2013-07-15, 04:39 AM

Originally Posted by Figment

Considering previous threats on social media having resulted in actual killing sprees and people in Texas owning loads of guns. Eh. Don't post that shit in public.

Honestly, this is just as bad as a prank bomb report. Context aside, such a comment is not suited for public websites, since nobody can tell if you actually are kidding.

This wasn't a threat though and it might not even have been posted on Facebook. Also it was "discussion" between two gamers and we all know how stupid those can get. You should be allowed to post shit on the internet, just like people should be allowed to call you up on the bullshit you wrote. No one should be punished by the legal system because they made a stupid and vague comments like this.

No it's not. Not even close. When you make a prank call about bombing a location then you are calling up a specific place and making a threat towards the people there specifically. This was a completely vague "threat". I'm all for people being punished for having made threats towards specific groups of people, individuals, institutions etc. Harrasment, death threats etc. But someone trying to disprove his level of mental instability by making a stupid comment like this this? No.
Also he did apparently write "Just kidding", which obviously doesn't automatically get on off the hook, but taken in the context of the discussion that he was having I fail to see how anyone could have taken that seriously.

Besides removing yet another column in the temple devoted to "Freedom of speech" it also irritates me that of all people and all comments made on social medias this is the one they go after... What about the comments made by fanatics on either side of the political spectrum? They have certainly called for the murder of specific individuals, the attack on specific institutions/groups and more or less genocide of specific groups of people.
Heck what about all the bs that passes by on the consoles? Should those playing CoD be fearing for their freedom as well, or is this a case of you can say/write what you want as long as you don't threaten the state.

This just reminds me of what I've read about the Cold War period, back then you had to watch everything you said as well.

Crator · 2013-07-15, 09:58 AM

I agree, this isn't for the law to do anything about. If the game company wants to ban them for misconduct, fine. But jailed for it? Under what law is it a crime to do this?

Figment · 2013-07-15, 02:31 PM

This one offended someone else who was informed about it through the system called Facebook to the extend they rang the police. People should realise Facebook is NOT a private social media so it wasn't just a chat between two people, even if we see it as such - sending it to someone who is threatened by it is therefore a LOT easier than you may think and therefore, yes, it can come over as a threat.

Freedom of speech is not the same as freedom of threatening.

The police obviously doesn't go after everyone else on the internet - because 1. not everyone else is being reported 2. not everyone else can as easily be identified as someone on facebook. And yes, context is very easily ignored.

Do I think time in jail is warranted here? No, an apology at least and maybe some spanking would be in order (or a lecture on good comedy by John Cleese), but no, not jailtime in this case.

ChipMHazard · 2013-07-16, 12:13 AM

Originally Posted by Figment

This one offended someone else who was informed about it through the system called Facebook to the extend they rang the police. People should realise Facebook is NOT a private social media so it wasn't just a chat between two people, even if we see it as such - sending it to someone who is threatened by it is therefore a LOT easier than you may think and therefore, yes, it can come over as a threat.

Freedom of speech is not the same as freedom of threatening.

The police obviously doesn't go after everyone else on the internet - because 1. not everyone else is being reported 2. not everyone else can as easily be identified as someone on facebook. And yes, context is very easily ignored.

Do I think time in jail is warranted here? No, an apology at least and maybe some spanking would be in order (or a lecture on good comedy by John Cleese), but no, not jailtime in this case.

True people shouldn't treat any social media as being a private forum for their thoughts. [I am still abit unsure as to where this took place, old sources mention in League of Legends itself and newer sources mention Facebook in a League of Legends argument.]
However he didn't send this comment to the woman who was offended, nor to any kindergarten. Apparently a random woman saw the comment and reported it. Unless I've missed something, we don't know how she got to see said comment. Anyway this was not written as a threat to anyone.

True, except I don't see this as a threat. People should be allowed to make bad/offensive jokes, even jokes about going all Hannibal Lecter on people. As long as it's obviously not to be taken seriously, in that it's not specific in any way, then I don't have a problem with this nor do I think the authorities should have spent this much effort/time on a person who clearly isn't a threat. Give him a warning? Fine, should probably be done via Facebook itself (If they actually deal out warning for inappropriate comments) since I doubt the police are able to discern the context.

As I see it that is completely irrelevant. I think that he was made an example of, or used as an experiment to see how far they can go with the anti-terrorism laws. There have been other comments posted on different social medias or otherwise broadcasted to the public that have been far more threatning against individuals, groups of people or institutions, by people who engage in politics in some form or another. Why haven't people like Ted Nugent been arrested?
I also don't see the relevance of someone being easy to track down via their personal information on Facebook as having any bearing on this case. I am rather certain that the police could track down most US citizens who have made worrisome Facebook comments.

Taramafor · 2013-07-17, 06:40 PM

If the idiot provided details of his address publicly and then proceeded to be a jackass knowing it could be traced back to him then he got what was coming to him. If only because he thought he was safe having done as such, which he must have done. Since they caught him. Not only that, some people can take shit personally and do worse then that.

That said though, being arrested for this is just... disappointing to say the least. There are people getting murdered out there and the police are arresting people online for an obvious joke that obviously wasn't going to be followed through on? EVERYONE does that at some point (or at least a good percentage do). The real crime here is that idiots with big mouths are getting arrested. Hell, this will probably enrage some people who might just end up going on a riot because of this which will lead to people actually getting hurt (maybe a very small riot but still...)

Geist · 2013-07-18, 02:32 PM

http://kotaku.com/league-of-legends-...reat-610691101

Based on this, it appears that "After seeing the comments on Facebook, an unidentified Canadian woman looked up Carter’s personal information, found an old address located near an elementary school and called the cops."

So, not only was he jailed for making a facebook comment, he was jailed because someone, not even from this country, looked up outdated information and found a school near one of those places he didn't live anymore, and called the police in Texas about it.

Figment · 2013-07-18, 05:57 PM

The thing is, when can or should someone be arrested for making a threat or reporting a false threat?

Does the media in which it is done matter?

Geist · 2013-07-18, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by Figment

The thing is, when can or should someone be arrested for making a threat or reporting a false threat?

Does the media in which it is done matter?

Let me answer that by saying "Context is Everything". If I were to write a letter that said essentially what he said, and sent it to the local news, I deserve to be arrested. If I say it on Facebook because I was in an argument about League of Legends and someone called me crazy, I'd hope instead of arresting me the Police would lecture the person who brings it up about wasting police time and resources on something so stupid.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

sylphaen · 2013-07-18, 07:50 PM

Good comments.

Let me add:
If context is not considered in any way, maybe authorities should give out 1every Citizen a list of words they are forbidden to express over the internet under any circumstance ?

But then am I allowed to say bad things using "nice" and "not forbidden" words ? Or could I also be judged on actual intent and/or perceived intent ?

If intention is considered, then aren't we considering context ?

Either my logic is flawed or it's not consistent: one cannot be judged on intent and context not be considered.

_________________________

In this particular case, did he have an actual terrorist project proven by facts (e.g. actuals plans or preparation to maim/kill unarmed defenseless underage civilians) that would prove his intent to cause harm ? Does he have proven or known psychiatric troubles that would make his threat reasonably credible ?

Yes, a threat is a threat but what I see is a random guy on the internet being put in prison when events like the Chicago bombing or other mass shooting happen.

Anyways... The Police don't have it easy but hopefully, less effort is spent on trolls/jerks and more on actual killers.

Neurotoxin · 2013-07-24, 02:37 PM

I know I've said far worse, even gone into greater detail. I don't believe most US judges and jurors have the proper tools and understanding to properly address issues of this nature related to internet communication.

Figment · 2013-07-26, 04:45 AM

Originally Posted by Neurotoxin

I know I've said far worse, even gone into greater detail. I don't believe most US judges and jurors have the proper tools and understanding to properly address issues of this nature related to internet communication.

Or experience given the generation difference?

We're looking at a better safe than sorry policy though, regardless of whether it's justifiable, how much care for context would people have in that situation?