2011 Release - Oh look flying pig - Page 3

morf · 2011-04-12, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by Mightymouser

In this case, the module to be replaced would be those 'base classes'; and as long as the replacement classes had the appropriate members available (i.e. The proper API) a child class written for one engine could be directed to another engine with relatively little modifications to the code (or if they are named the same, no modifications to the code, just changes in the included header files).

So either you are creating base classes with the same attributes as the Unreal classes, which is plagiarism (as I posited in my second post). Or alternatively, you are creating base classes with different attributes than the Unreal classes, which involves re-writing every line of code in the subclasses (as posited in my first post).

Mightymouser · 2011-04-12, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by morf

So either you are creating base classes with the same attributes as the Unreal classes, which is plagiarism (as I posited in my second post). Or alternatively, you are creating base classes with different attributes than the Unreal classes, which involves re-writing every line of code in the subclasses (as posited in my first post).

Creating base classes with the same methods, and member data names is not plagiarism, as I said:

Originally Posted by Me

The code written within the propitiatory engine's classes is no-doubt copyright protected; however you would have a hard time making a case that the function prototypes cannot be reused.

Telling someone you've a copyright on 'void SetLoc(long x, long y, long z);' is ridiculous. They have a copyright on the code by which they implement that function, but not on the function prototype itself. And the code by which they implement the function is exactly what SOE is replacing.

morf · 2011-04-12, 06:23 PM

I don't know how you get off saying that stealing attribute/member names is not plagiarism. Plain and simple, you don't have anything to back that statement up. Please show me either your law degree or any single document that can prove your point. Unreal works hard for their 25% and you simply can't write classes with exactly the same member names and call them your own.

Mightymouser · 2011-04-12, 06:37 PM

Have you ever heard of Wine?

It implements the Win32 API on a linux platform. They've done it for years, and if Microsoft could shut them down for copying their API; they would have.

So yes, you can write member functions with exactly the same name and call them your own. (There are even propitiatory versions of Wine available, so don't try that card).

Epic Games works hard for their licensing fees by maintaining a strong engine, by which I refer to the DLLs which implement the API, not by maintaining a good list of function prototypes. If SOE really intends to write a new engine from the ground up, they too will be doing a lot of work implementing that API, hence not paying Epic to do it. Although as I have said else where I doubt they are writing a whole new engine, which means parts of it will still be licensed from whoever originally made the engine, rendering the whole copyright issue moot.

P.S.You would win more arguments if you didn't make an ass out of yourself in every post; insisting you know better, when you have no idea what you are talking about

morf · 2011-04-12, 07:22 PM

Apples to oranges.

WINE is a platform capable of running compiled executables. It doesn't have access to their source, which is a proprietary language. Your solution involves not only stealing the classes with member names intact, but also interpreting the proprietary language (unrealscript). We can go around and around here but the fact of the matter is the code relating to the unreal classes is being re-written, because the alternative is plagiarism. SOE just fired 200 people and if there was anything close to plagiarism going on some disgruntled soul would be screaming at the top of their lungs about it.

I've lost the drive to reply so go ahead and get your last word in, but whatever it is I just want to preemptively say that you're wrong. Later.

Lonehunter · 2011-04-12, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by Rabb

Most people here will be seasoned PC gamers. So what I don't understand is why people still buy in to the idea that games will be released when the developers say they will. How many games release on time, how many even get released the same year they are originally supposed to.

PS:N Q4 2011 not bloody likely, seriously guys I want it as much as the rest of you but do you really think it will come out before 2012.

I may just be a cynical old git but I can't see this being released before Q4 2012.

Any other predictions?

Please choose one of the other "Doubt Thread"s next time please. I understand your frustration, really. It's just getting annoying reading the same topic over and over with slightly different words.

No info + No info should = no assumptions, but everyone seems to think Q4, Q3, Q1 '12, I know everyone has an opinion, but it's just a waiting game now. Just Chillax

Mightymouser · 2011-04-12, 08:01 PM

Lets sum up:

- SOE says they are going to run PS:N in a 'new engine'

- You say this means they will have to re-write all the PS:N code line by line

- I tell you they don't have to if their new engine implements the same API

- You tell me "API has dick to do with it"; then go on tell me you can't do exactly what OOP is intented to do, which is replace modules which have the same API

- I inform you that you can indeed replace such modules, as long as they maintain the same function prototypes and members data names (i.e. the same API)

- You tell me this would be plaguerism

- I correct you

- You tell me I have 'nothing to back up [my] statement' and that "you simply can't write classes with exactly the same member names and call them your own."

- I give you an example of someone doing exactly that

- You tell me that the two are different because in this case a proprietary language is being interpreted. (Although the interpreter has nothing to do with the engine code)

You seem to enjoy pushing misguided opinions, and then when called on it; you come up with an entirely different (yet equally misguided) reason to carry on that you're correct in the face of mounting evidence that you in fact have no idea what you are talking about. It's quite sad to be honest.

Anyway, to your last point:

First; Wine and the situation we are talking about here are very much correlative. Wine implements the API of a proprietary software so that code intended to be run with calls to the original software can be run on another platform with calls to different DLLs. We are talking about doing the same thing with a new engine.

The engine is not the same thing as the interpreter. The engine is the set of DLLs which code calls to run certain functions (or to inherit classes from), the interpreter is what changes UnrealScript into a lower level language. SOE could continue to use the UnrealScript interpreter regardless of which engine they use; or else they could write their programs in another language entirely; Using the Unreal engine does not require UnrealScript; it's just a tool Epic has developed to make coding easier for modders. And the use of either in a commercial enterprise would no doubt require their own licensing.

We aren't talking about replacing the interpreter, we're talking about replacing the Engine, and that certainly can be done by mimicking the API; and under the exact same legal circumstances as Wine.

Silverfish · 2011-04-12, 08:07 PM

Bunch of Debbie Downers in here!...2012 release...come on! If I know my SOE, and I don't. I bet this game will be out by August this year!!

SKYeXile · 2011-04-12, 10:06 PM

from the looks of smeds post "Recently ( a few weeks ago actually) we made the call to update the game to a new internally developed engine. " it seems the engine is already made, they're jsut putting planetside on it...how much work that entails...well i dont know.

Firefly · 2011-04-13, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by Duffman

You seem to be the only one getting emotional. The people like me who don't have much faith in SOE are simply saying we don't trust them to deliver on what they say. You on the other hand blindly believe and call anyone who doesn't emotional and a baby...

OP doesn't sound emo at all simply rational and discussion Planetside: Next on a discussion forum...

I'm really sorry you intuited emotion where there was none - I am underwhelmingly dispassionate about the subject of whether PS is vapourware or not, and any other even remotely-associated subjects. Read this thread, with the QQ'ing going on between at least two posters, and then come back and talk to me about "you seem to be the only one".

Have a nice day.

The Desert Fox · 2011-04-13, 11:47 AM

Listen I agree with everyones Complaints about SOE as much as the next guy. Hell I completely agree with the OP and most of the posts here, but honestly there are like 3-4 other threads that have turned into SoE Flamefests. this one is really unnecessary.

Raymac · 2011-04-13, 11:48 AM

Fuck it. Lets settle this the old fashiond way, with gambling. What do you say we create a "Planetside Release Date Pool"? You can buy different dates, and whoever gets it correct, wins the pot.

I'm seeing a whole lot of speculation and conjecture based on very little information. No reason to raise the emotion level here. So, drink a beer, smoke a bowl, have your girlfriend give you an old-fashioned. Lets just chill. There will be plenty of time to freak out over features we won't like in PS:N once we know whats in there.

Grimster · 2011-04-14, 02:39 AM

Firefly · 2011-04-14, 03:46 AM

Originally Posted by Raymac

Fuck it. Lets settle this the old fashiond way, with gambling. What do you say we create a "Planetside Release Date Pool"? You can buy different dates, and whoever gets it correct, wins the pot.

I'm seeing a whole lot of speculation and conjecture based on very little information. No reason to raise the emotion level here. So, drink a beer, smoke a bowl, have your girlfriend give you an old-fashioned. Lets just chill. There will be plenty of time to freak out over features we won't like in PS:N once we know whats in there.

PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD, JOIN HANDS, START A LOVE TRAIN... LOVE TRAIN...

Rabb · 2011-04-14, 04:49 AM

Sorry this turned in to a flame SOE thread it was not meant to be.

What I was trying to say was that the gaming community in general still seem to buy in to the release date claims of developers. You can go to allot of game forums and see people getting excited about release dates like "Q4 2011". When anyone that has been around the block a bit knows full well it's a lie just like the cake. I just find it sad that the majority of people are just that gullible.

Personally I've taken to adding a year to any release date claim until there is a solid date not something loose like Q1 and it is picked up buy the on-line distributors like play and game.