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Old 2012-06-11, 10:52 PM   [Ignore Me] #31
The Degenatron
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Re: Spotting done the right way


I hate to be the wet blanket, but this seems like too much data to transmit.

While the idea is cool, you have to think about how big that's going to be for just one instance of it, and then multiply it by a few hundred. Not the mention all of the people reciving the feed (still image).

I don't care how broad your broad-band is, that's gonna choke the servers - even with the highest compression gif format you could find (which would degrade the images to the point of being useless).

I know it looks like the Forgelight engine can do wonders, but let's not expect the world.
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Old 2012-06-12, 06:54 AM   [Ignore Me] #32
Dagron
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Re: Spotting done the right way


Originally Posted by The Degenatron View Post
I hate to be the wet blanket, but this seems like too much data to transmit.

While the idea is cool, you have to think about how big that's going to be for just one instance of it, and then multiply it by a few hundred. Not the mention all of the people reciving the feed (still image).

I don't care how broad your broad-band is, that's gonna choke the servers - even with the highest compression gif format you could find (which would degrade the images to the point of being useless).

I know it looks like the Forgelight engine can do wonders, but let's not expect the world.
Damn, i hate it when people burst my perfectly harmless daydreaming bubbles with the cold hard reality.

You're right, of course.

Last edited by Dagron; 2012-06-12 at 06:56 AM.
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Old 2012-06-12, 09:17 AM   [Ignore Me] #33
Immigrant
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Re: Spotting done the right way


Originally Posted by The Degenatron View Post
I hate to be the wet blanket, but this seems like too much data to transmit.
Since they did promised you'll be able to directly stream your game play to outside channels, I don't see why streaming to other player's screen would be that difficult?
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Old 2012-06-12, 11:03 AM   [Ignore Me] #34
The Degenatron
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Re: Spotting done the right way


Originally Posted by Immigrant View Post
Since they did promised you'll be able to directly stream your game play to outside channels, I don't see why streaming to other player's screen would be that difficult?
Because they are talking about you running a program like Fraps or something. Which is fine because that's all on you. If you want to clog your intertubes with a video feed out to a website (like twitch.tv), no problem.

The problem comes in when you want the planetside servers to handle all of that video (or even still images) across their data streams and server on top of all of the other actual game data that's being passed around.

Now, in theory, you could set something like this up in your outfit where everyone has a second monitor that is tuned to a twitch.tv channel watching your infiltrator feed. The trick is getting all that set up and how much of a delay is going to be put on the stream.

Some might call that cheating.
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Old 2012-06-12, 02:35 PM   [Ignore Me] #35
Bobbunny
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Re: Spotting done the right way


Haven't read all three pages, but here's my two cents.

One of the Infiltrators's gadgets is a range finder. When used, it can give the precise range of a certain object or area (Variable zoom yay) or they can start lazeing targets. They can mark enemies (Shows as a small red square), Vehicles, Bases, Turrets, Explosives, etc. They can also free mark with the push of a button. Free marking will show a green square that when hovered over, can give you note, such as range.
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Old 2012-06-12, 04:45 PM   [Ignore Me] #36
Immigrant
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Re: Spotting done the right way


Originally Posted by The Degenatron View Post
Because they are talking about you running a program like Fraps or something.
I though they weren't talking about an outside program like FRAPS but something integrated with the game, however I may be wrong. What would be the point of boasting with that? You can do it in any game.
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Old 2012-06-12, 06:42 PM   [Ignore Me] #37
casdac
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Re: Spotting done the right way


I'm not sure how well this would work for the kind of Intel aspect most of the people posting in this thread are wanting and by all means rip the idea to pieces if you want.

But how about rather than having the spot function lock onto a target and show the exact location of the player, you instead use it as a static short term area marker on the mini map and maybe on your main view if the marker is close enough to you, with this you can spot a persons general location rather than the actual person, combine this with the VOIP and you can tell your squad that the marker you just placed is an enemy location, and anyone who isn't listening to your VOIP (Not in your squad etc.) will see the marker and get an idea that there might be someone in that general direction.

this marker would of course not be permanent, lets say it lasts 5-10 seconds, just enough time for people to get the general idea someone might be in that location, but not so long as to have hundreds of them all over the map when they are no longer needed
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Old 2012-06-12, 07:03 PM   [Ignore Me] #38
NiDeCo
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Re: Spotting done the right way


I'm kinda new to the forums and Planetside, but this thread got me interested since I'm also thinking about playing infiltrator mostly.
From what I saw in the E3 streams, the current spotting mechanism might indeed be a little bit 'cheating' and giving away too much info. Next to being abusable (randomly spamming the spot button in the dark of night).
Also, like The Degenatron said, video feeds would probably just clog up the server(s). As well as probably being unrecognisable.

Though I don't really know a better system in that aspect, my personal vision of a good, usable spotting system is as follows, but this is mostly for strategical spotting, not battle spotting (so to plan attacks or prepare defences, not in the heat of battle):
  • A spotter, designated by the squad/outfit(/empire?) leader, will be able to take a picture of what he sees and upload it to said squad/outfit(/empire?) leader alone for immediate review and/or the entire squad/outfit/empire can check out the spotting on the world map in-game. Anyone not designated as spotter can not upload anything, though can spot for personal use.
  • This may or may not use an auto-counting and/or marking feature like Ratstomper demonstrated.
  • [] Though the auto-counting/marking mechanism would not work, for example, at night when there's not enough light, so it'll just be a dark image. But when taken in infrared, all visible units will be counted and marked like normal.
  • This picture can or will be uploaded to a certain server for a set amount of time so, for example, people with the tablet/phone app can see this spotting on the world map and also be up to date on what armies might be rolling out, or what defenses a certain base has.
  • [] An extra step might be that the squad/outfit leader must be the one deciding the picture should be uploaded or not. (crappy/unusable/uninteresting pictures will just be discarded)
  • Spotting should use resources. This is to counter spamming/abuse, giving incentive to the infiltrator to make sure every spotting counts.
= Fun Fact = This could also be used to just make awesome captions of entire fleets ready to move out, as a sort of commemoration group photo (with auto-count, it'd show how big the entire fleet is)


I think this could also maybe just happen client-side, if not requested by the squad leader. So someone can just make a screenshot/spotting and have their own pc/client upload it to the main server for a set amount of time for everyone to check out on their tablet/phone app, or another server (e.g. your own website), for your own outfit exclusively, for example.

This is all just my two cents and contributing to the brainstorm. I'd like to hear what you guys think.

Last edited by NiDeCo; 2012-06-12 at 07:07 PM.
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Old 2012-06-12, 09:08 PM   [Ignore Me] #39
Ratstomper
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Re: Spotting done the right way


Originally Posted by NiDeCo View Post
I'm kinda new to the forums and Planetside, but this thread got me interested since I'm also thinking about playing infiltrator mostly.
From what I saw in the E3 streams, the current spotting mechanism might indeed be a little bit 'cheating' and giving away too much info. Next to being abusable (randomly spamming the spot button in the dark of night).
Also, like The Degenatron said, video feeds would probably just clog up the server(s). As well as probably being unrecognisable.

Though I don't really know a better system in that aspect, my personal vision of a good, usable spotting system is as follows, but this is mostly for strategical spotting, not battle spotting (so to plan attacks or prepare defences, not in the heat of battle):
  • A spotter, designated by the squad/outfit(/empire?) leader, will be able to take a picture of what he sees and upload it to said squad/outfit(/empire?) leader alone for immediate review and/or the entire squad/outfit/empire can check out the spotting on the world map in-game. Anyone not designated as spotter can not upload anything, though can spot for personal use.
  • This may or may not use an auto-counting and/or marking feature like Ratstomper demonstrated.
  • [] Though the auto-counting/marking mechanism would not work, for example, at night when there's not enough light, so it'll just be a dark image. But when taken in infrared, all visible units will be counted and marked like normal.
  • This picture can or will be uploaded to a certain server for a set amount of time so, for example, people with the tablet/phone app can see this spotting on the world map and also be up to date on what armies might be rolling out, or what defenses a certain base has.
  • [] An extra step might be that the squad/outfit leader must be the one deciding the picture should be uploaded or not. (crappy/unusable/uninteresting pictures will just be discarded)
  • Spotting should use resources. This is to counter spamming/abuse, giving incentive to the infiltrator to make sure every spotting counts.
= Fun Fact = This could also be used to just make awesome captions of entire fleets ready to move out, as a sort of commemoration group photo (with auto-count, it'd show how big the entire fleet is)


I think this could also maybe just happen client-side, if not requested by the squad leader. So someone can just make a screenshot/spotting and have their own pc/client upload it to the main server for a set amount of time for everyone to check out on their tablet/phone app, or another server (e.g. your own website), for your own outfit exclusively, for example.

This is all just my two cents and contributing to the brainstorm. I'd like to hear what you guys think.
I really like the idea, but I don't know how teneble it is to require an outside device to use. I wouldn't want it to turn into "X is a better squad leader because he has an ipad." ...or did I read that wrong?
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Old 2012-06-13, 02:44 AM   [Ignore Me] #40
NiDeCo
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Re: Spotting done the right way


Originally Posted by Ratstomper View Post
I really like the idea, but I don't know how teneble it is to require an outside device to use. I wouldn't want it to turn into "X is a better squad leader because he has an ipad." ...or did I read that wrong?
Yes, you read that wrong

The idea was, that instead of the entire squad/outfit getting flooded with spottings, only the squad/outfit leader would get the spotting from the spotter he/she designated directly on his/her screen, in-game.

How it would work:
  • Squad/outfit leader designates a spotter and sends him/her on a reconnaissance mission.
  • Spotter spots the needed intel, which gets uploaded to the squad/outfit leader automatically (since he has been designated as a spotter).
  • Squad/outfit leader receives a little blip on his HUD somewhere subtle so he/she sees he/she's received a spotting.
  • Squad/outfit leader uses hotkey to bring up the spotting full-screen and studies the spotting. Squad/outfit leader also decides if the spotting should be uploaded to the server for other people (or the whole empire) to be viewable in-game AND on tablet/phone app.
    I.e. if the spotting is so important the entire empire/CR5 should know about it, the squad/outfit leader can tell the highest in rank to check out spotting X in hex Y. And at the same time, anyone at work/not at home can see there's been a spotting on their tablet/phone app and have a visual reference for them to contribute to the strategic planning.
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Old 2012-06-13, 12:19 PM   [Ignore Me] #41
Ratstomper
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Re: Spotting done the right way


Originally Posted by NiDeCo View Post
Yes, you read that wrong

The idea was, that instead of the entire squad/outfit getting flooded with spottings, only the squad/outfit leader would get the spotting from the spotter he/she designated directly on his/her screen, in-game.

How it would work:
  • Squad/outfit leader designates a spotter and sends him/her on a reconnaissance mission.
  • Spotter spots the needed intel, which gets uploaded to the squad/outfit leader automatically (since he has been designated as a spotter).
  • Squad/outfit leader receives a little blip on his HUD somewhere subtle so he/she sees he/she's received a spotting.
  • Squad/outfit leader uses hotkey to bring up the spotting full-screen and studies the spotting. Squad/outfit leader also decides if the spotting should be uploaded to the server for other people (or the whole empire) to be viewable in-game AND on tablet/phone app.
    I.e. if the spotting is so important the entire empire/CR5 should know about it, the squad/outfit leader can tell the highest in rank to check out spotting X in hex Y. And at the same time, anyone at work/not at home can see there's been a spotting on their tablet/phone app and have a visual reference for them to contribute to the strategic planning.
Ok, I understand now. I mentioned that in my post and I think it's a good idea for the intel to go to the squad leader only. I really like being able to upload to a faction intel server for the CR5s to see. I think the question is whether or not the game can support a function like this. If it could, I would much rather see this than current spotting.
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Old 2012-06-17, 08:15 AM   [Ignore Me] #42
WVoneseven
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Re: Spotting done the right way


This all seems overly complicated.
I believe the simplest and most balanced system would be one similar to Tribes ascends current one (as they have made the spot require greater accuracy in a recent patch) except that the marker placed should not follow the target.

This would provide a non cluttered UI solution which simply displayed a last seen point for a number of seconds. This info would be incredibly useful to focused outfits and squads but useless to disorganised fools.
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Old 2012-06-17, 07:40 PM   [Ignore Me] #43
NiDeCo
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Re: Spotting done the right way


I must agree that that seems like a good alternative to the current battle spotting mechanic. (The one you want to use when in the middle of a fight)

I was more interested in a way for strategical spotting to help squads/outfits(/empires) to prepare attacks/defence BEFORE an actual fight occurs.
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Old 2012-06-17, 08:26 PM   [Ignore Me] #44
super pretendo
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Re: Spotting done the right way


Is spotting confirmed for infiltrator or even mentioned?
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Old 2012-06-18, 01:14 AM   [Ignore Me] #45
The Degenatron
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Re: Spotting done the right way


I have a couple of alternative ideas:

First, "Tagging". This idea is a straight rip-off from Natural Selection. Infiltrators could hit an enemy with a transponder which gives away the enemies position to the squad. The enemy could remove the tag by using a healing station. In NS, the target got a hud pop-up saying they'd been tagged. I always thought this defeated the purpose and would recommend that a target not get notice that they were tagged. Of course this would require certification and a device that takes up an inventory slot. Upgrades could make the tagger shoot farther and the tags last longer before the ran out of power.

Second would be "Ping". This would be an cert with a device or it could be an implant. It would do what it sounds like - it would send out a circular ping around the spy and breifly light up all of the enemy around them (2~4 seconds tops). The ping might make a quiet noise that could give away the infiltrator if someone was too close. Upgrades could include a larger ping radius and faser cool-downs between pings.

"But wait D-Gen! That's WAY too OP, and there's no counter!", you say, but there is a counter. You give the counter meassure to the light assault. Light assaults can cert up to be able to see the ping signature on their minimaps when it eminates from the infiltrator. They have to be watching for it, or they'll miss it. And even if they see it, it wouldn't stay long enough to lead them to the infiltrator. They'll have to wait for the next ping to see how close they are getting and if the infiltrator has moved. This could make quite an intresting cat-and-mouse game for these two classes.

To me, this is a much more plausable set out spotting options to the "everyone can spam their spots" or the "live stream" options.

Also, Immigrant, you have a point about "why would they boast about that?". I don't know unless they are talking about building into the UI a streamer (instead of using a 3rd party). But even then, I'd bet they are talking an out-bound stream, and not in-bound to the server.

Last edited by The Degenatron; 2012-06-18 at 01:24 AM.
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