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Old 2014-03-16, 04:41 PM   [Ignore Me] #16
ChipMHazard
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Re: A clarification on Crimea


So the vote went as expected. The question now is will Russia try to take the eastern parts of Ukraine, as they have hinted at?
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Old 2014-03-17, 04:50 AM   [Ignore Me] #17
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Re: A clarification on Crimea


I'm going to bet that Putin walks away with Crimea and his victory at the price of a massive arms build up by the US and EU in Poland and Romania. 2-4 years pass, and we do this song and dance again somewhere else. Honestly, just take Belarus. Its basically a 3rd world, soviet style nations sitting in the middle of Europe. I'm sure if Putin works out a deal with everyone else ahead of time then he's got himself a gimme.
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Old 2014-03-18, 01:13 PM   [Ignore Me] #18
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Re: A clarification on Crimea


Originally Posted by Dougnifico View Post
I'm going to bet that Putin walks away with Crimea and his victory at the price of a massive arms build up by the US and EU in Poland and Romania. 2-4 years pass, and we do this song and dance again somewhere else. Honestly, just take Belarus. Its basically a 3rd world, soviet style nations sitting in the middle of Europe. I'm sure if Putin works out a deal with everyone else ahead of time then he's got himself a gimme.
There is a difference. Belarusian government is pro-Russian. Besides, unlike in many other countries people are actually satisfied with their government there.
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Old 2014-03-18, 08:02 PM   [Ignore Me] #19
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Re: A clarification on Crimea


True. I'm just sayin that Putin can have it regardless. lol.

Btw, I'm always curious about other countries and place around the world. Can I ask, were you subject to conscription? (Purely academic. No political point to be made.)
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Old 2014-03-19, 05:59 AM   [Ignore Me] #20
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Re: A clarification on Crimea


Originally Posted by Dougnifico View Post
True. I'm just sayin that Putin can have it regardless. lol.

Btw, I'm always curious about other countries and place around the world. Can I ask, were you subject to conscription? (Purely academic. No political point to be made.)
Yes, at the age of 18. Airborne Troops.
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Old 2014-03-19, 05:56 PM   [Ignore Me] #21
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Re: A clarification on Crimea


Wow. That's fascinating to me. Today in Russia, what is kind of the cultural feeling towards the United States? I know here many people are still stuck in an old cold war mentality.
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Old 2014-03-20, 09:16 PM   [Ignore Me] #22
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Re: A clarification on Crimea


Originally Posted by Dougnifico View Post
Wow. That's fascinating to me. Today in Russia, what is kind of the cultural feeling towards the United States? I know here many people are still stuck in an old cold war mentality.
Truth is, - Russia isn't really stuck in that mentality. We tried softing up our relations with the West, but apparently the West still wants to see Russia as THE Empire of Evil. Ossetian conflict, solution on Syria, Annexation of Crimea... All these events caused panic among the US news, and thus they near instantly rushed off to make conclusions about Russian attempts to conquer the world.

I believe the US always needs an "alien enemy", that's what their progress was built upon, that's why the revolution happened. For all the sweet talk about democracy and tolerance, the States is the only country in which "Us vs Them" is an actual policy.

But when it comes to Russia, not one foreigner can understand one simple thing... We may whine alot, we may act aggressively, we may turn up very nationalistic, but we rarely let our objectivity get clouded, be it relating to a foreigner or a fellow countryman. Especially since Internet made its way even into the most remote Siberian villages where some elderly ladies are milking cows skyping with daughters meanwhile. Checking American news online is rather easy now and seeing what they say isn't helping the anti-coldwar sentiment much.

So to answer shortly - US is generally disliked by Russians, but there is no hate towards anyone in particular. Mostly because US tends to operate with noble words, while doing quite the opposite in spirit and it's not a comnmon tendency among mere citizens, many know that. When it comes to Russia, it's true to say that we prefer silence to lying. Doesn't mean we don't do bad things though.
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Last edited by NewSith; 2014-03-20 at 09:19 PM.
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Old 2014-03-21, 04:14 AM   [Ignore Me] #23
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Re: A clarification on Crimea


That I do agree with. The US had a good chance to improve the relationship with Russia when Obama became president. Heck, even Bush made sure that his generals stopped provoking Russia.
Most of the EU doesn't have anything against Russia and would almost certainly like nothing more than to have closer relations with Russia. Anders Fogh even tried to draft a proposition for Russia to become part of NATO/EU, or at least military closer. Sadly Hillary stopped that dead in its tracks. That was when I knew that nothing had changed or the US still wanted their old enemy to be within reach. Well that and the madness that is the NATO missile defence.
Of course we also have to remember that there's a difference between political rhetoric and real politics. The west and east aren't nearly as hostile towards each other as the propaganda might indicate. When it comes to trade and cooperation between the US and Russia the relationship seems to be perfectly friendly.
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Last edited by ChipMHazard; 2014-03-21 at 06:13 AM.
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Old 2014-03-21, 05:50 AM   [Ignore Me] #24
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Re: A clarification on Crimea


You know, hopefully things will change soon. My generation (the millennials, far more hated than Russians) tends to be much more open. Perhaps as we begin to take the reigns we can have closer relations. We didn't live the Cold War so we really don't have those feelings. Now, we still are pretty us vs. them, but it more towards the Chinese. I do think that Putin needs to finish his stay in office (pro tip: term limits) and we here need to make sure that the teabaggers don't make any headway (I swear, its like a retarded cousin who keeps shouting and crapping himself at dinner).

Also, if we work together, more money, the political language.
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Old 2014-03-22, 08:28 PM   [Ignore Me] #25
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Re: A clarification on Crimea


http://www.usatoday.com/story/nation...ative/6601059/

Take that Russia!

'MERICA! 'MERICA! 'MERICA!
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Old 2014-03-23, 04:18 AM   [Ignore Me] #26
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Re: A clarification on Crimea


An obvious ruse if I ever did see one. They make all the countries around Russia weak as a kitten, then when Putin pounches...BAM! The US calls him a poopyhead!
A truly brilliant plan!
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Old 2014-03-26, 03:15 PM   [Ignore Me] #27
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Re: A clarification on Crimea


Originally Posted by Dougnifico View Post
You know, hopefully things will change soon. My generation (the millennials, far more hated than Russians) tends to be much more open. Perhaps as we begin to take the reigns we can have closer relations. We didn't live the Cold War so we really don't have those feelings. Now, we still are pretty us vs. them, but it more towards the Chinese. I do think that Putin needs to finish his stay in office (pro tip: term limits) and we here need to make sure that the teabaggers don't make any headway (I swear, its like a retarded cousin who keeps shouting and crapping himself at dinner).

Also, if we work together, more money, the political language.
I think this has more truth to it than most people think. I'm part of the same generation as you, and the best I can do to get a glimpse of how things were during the Cold War is to read about it, watch recordings, look at pictures, etc, but the true feeling cannot be revived and only exists with those who were there who lived through it.

I honestly hold the belief that when the world's leaders are no longer constituted by people who were alive during the height of the Cold War, we will see globalization take off in a more positive way. Our generation, hopefully when in office, will have a different mindset toward international politics than the current generation that is running the show.

Then again this might just sound like youthful wish-thinking... "We'll do it better" type attitude, but who knows. Things are changing, and our modern world is subject to this change faster than any other period in history, and it just keeps getting faster.
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Old 2014-03-28, 07:33 AM   [Ignore Me] #28
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Re: A clarification on Crimea


Originally Posted by NewSith View Post
Truth is, - Russia isn't really stuck in that mentality. We tried softing up our relations with the West, but apparently the West still wants to see Russia as THE Empire of Evil. Ossetian conflict, solution on Syria, Annexation of Crimea... All these events caused panic among the US news, and thus they near instantly rushed off to make conclusions about Russian attempts to conquer the world.
I can't really comment for the US, but from my UK perspective I can say that we don't view Russia as 'THE Empire of Evil'. We don't think they want to conquer the world. Also, I don't think that Brits have any problem with Russian people personally, or the country per se.

I do think that we have become increasingly suspicious of Putin himself and his close associates due to a number of things he's done in the many years he's been in power, not even speaking about the last few weeks.

Slightly different topic - what's the view in Russia towards taking more of Ukraine? Do the Russian people really support this idea? With all the reports of build up on the border (like this), I'm starting to get worried that there's a war just around the corner...
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Old 2014-03-28, 09:12 AM   [Ignore Me] #29
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Re: A clarification on Crimea


Originally Posted by Sonny View Post
Slightly different topic - what's the view in Russia towards taking more of Ukraine? Do the Russian people really support this idea? With all the reports of build up on the border (like this), I'm starting to get worried that there's a war just around the corner...
A. Nobody supports that.
B. Don't you think that if Russia wanted to take the rest of the Ukraine, it would do so straight away, before anyone had a real chance to react? Why just Crimea? These reports, aswell as many others are just a fight for ratings, and reigniting (re-icing?) the Cold War on the level of Mass Media seems to works well enough.

Let's just be clear about one thing: Crimea wanted succession and troops were sent there. However morally incorrect it is, whatever the reasoning behind it was, it prevented more unnecessary bloodshed. Remove Russian troops from Ukrainian border and Crimea now and the new Ukrainian government won't hesitate to send in their troops and enforce their own policy, in spite of any polls etc, reclaiming the region.

As for:
I don't think that Brits have any problem with Russian people personally, or the country per se.
Here's a hint: when a nuclear missile goes off in a city, it doesn't only kill unwanted politicians. The idea behind this phrase is - you cannot just channel your hate towards a single certain group when we talk about international relations.

And finally - when it comes to "World not minding Russians" statement... Well, I have over 4 years in PlanetSide 1 since 2006 to prove it wrong.
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Old 2014-03-28, 10:27 AM   [Ignore Me] #30
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Re: A clarification on Crimea


Originally Posted by NewSith View Post
Here's a hint: when a nuclear missile goes off in a city, it doesn't only kill unwanted politicians. The idea behind this phrase is - you cannot just channel your hate towards a single certain group when we talk about international relations.

And finally - when it comes to "World not minding Russians" statement... Well, I have over 4 years in PlanetSide 1 since 2006 to prove it wrong.
Wow, that escalated quickly. I don't know where I mentioned nuclear bombs, or even that I hated anyone. I don't even hate Putin himself, I certainly wouldnt' support going to war against Russia just because I disagree with him and his advisors!

I'm sorry that you've had bad experiences with people in Planetside 1, but the truth is, from my perspective, that the vast majority of British people (and Americans, half my family is American) do not hate Russia, or Russian people, and do not want a war with them.

Sonny

Last edited by Sonny; 2014-03-28 at 10:30 AM.
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