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Old 2011-07-15, 05:24 PM   [Ignore Me] #16
Bags
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Re: Suppressive fire


We don't need an entire system added to combat snipers. If we do, then snipers need to be fixed.
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Old 2011-07-15, 05:46 PM   [Ignore Me] #17
krnasaur
First Lieutenant
 
Re: Suppressive fire


Does this need a separate function that applies a debuff? Its just a standard military basic assault technique.
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Old 2011-07-15, 05:50 PM   [Ignore Me] #18
Tool
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Re: Suppressive fire


I think his idea in the simpliest form is essentially that if your getting shot at, there should be adverse affects to your aim and/or accuracy even if your not getting hit.

Even if it is a game, this concept adds new dimension to firefights which enables players who prefer that squad level support role to achive a real purpose other than simply killing or wounding.

It's a very reasonable request, I've listed three current and future titles that carry the same or similar mechanic while there are more titles out there. It's concept and usage have been accepted and enjoyed.

Therefore his (op) intention is grounded on a solid basis which simply can't be brushed aside due to lack of interest. It's a real FPS mechanic that perhaps deserves some interest in PS2.

I could have drug up a lot of real world experience while overseas about the effectiveness of suppressive-fire and at least what I felt on both sides, but as a gameplay mechanic where self preservation isn't as prevelant, artifical assistance is needed to portray a similar effect.

Last edited by Tool; 2011-07-15 at 06:03 PM.
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Old 2011-07-15, 05:57 PM   [Ignore Me] #19
Bags
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Re: Suppressive fire


I don't like the game rewarding you for shooting randomly at the enemy. That just seems completely ridiculous.
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Old 2011-07-15, 06:02 PM   [Ignore Me] #20
Tool
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Re: Suppressive fire


Originally Posted by Bags View Post
I don't like the game rewarding you for shooting randomly at the enemy. That just seems completely ridiculous.
If the intention is suppresion it's essentially not random. I don't mind that you don't like the idea Bags but can you go into more detail on this idea?
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Old 2011-07-15, 06:09 PM   [Ignore Me] #21
Bags
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Re: Suppressive fire


Well right now suppressing fire works fine in Planetside. If I hear Maelstroms or Thumpers in an indoor fight I'm not going to go charging into the fight. Likewise, if I'm outdoor sand I know multiple people will shoot me the second I pop out I will look for another way to flank those people.

There's no need for a system that rewards randomly shooting in the direction of the enemy by making them have a random chance to miss. Thankfully Higby has said there will be no RNG in Planetside 2.
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Old 2011-07-15, 06:26 PM   [Ignore Me] #22
Tool
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Re: Suppressive fire


Originally Posted by Bags View Post
Well right now suppressing fire works fine in Planetside. If I hear Maelstroms or Thumpers in an indoor fight I'm not going to go charging into the fight. Likewise, if I'm outdoor sand I know multiple people will shoot me the second I pop out I will look for another way to flank those people.

There's no need for a system that rewards randomly shooting in the direction of the enemy by making them have a random chance to miss. Thankfully Higby has said there will be no RNG in Planetside 2.
Fair enough, area denial weapons are essentially suppressing an area rather than persons. Flanking is one key step in using effective suppressive fire, Find em, Fix em, Flank em, Finish em. In many games though, the Fix em component isn't there.

The next best thing is essentially having some adverse effect to getting shot at, which is a very reasonable thing in a shooter using ballistic projectiles. If a unit/fireteam/squad, what-have-you, is expelling a lot of lead at a target, it's almost always a tactical choice. Ammo consumption or removing the potential threat or his ability to harm you or your team.

I guess it boils down to the type of game. Arena style, simulation, modern, etc. It's clear from the videos that PS2 seems to be going for that more modern shooter approach. From the note about higher lethality, hand placed cover, and locational damage.

Following that train of thought, suppressive fire in modern shooters yet to be released is becoming an intergral part of gameplay in some form or another.

Also, it's not the idea of making them randomly miss. More-so increasing gun sway, CoF, or recoil. So the effects aren't random really but what it does is add a technical layer to gunplay that hasn't been used much in recent titles.
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Old 2011-07-15, 06:28 PM   [Ignore Me] #23
Bags
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Re: Suppressive fire


Increasing gun spray increases my chance to miss randomly. It just seems like an unnecessary layer of complexity that really won't add much.
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Old 2011-07-15, 06:29 PM   [Ignore Me] #24
Volw
First Sergeant
 
Re: Suppressive fire


Originally Posted by Bags View Post
if I'm outdoor sand I know multiple people will shoot me the second I pop out
The whole point of the system is to make attacking more 'realistic' if you will. What you have just described is being zerged.

Right now in a 2:1 attack, chances of breaking through are very slim (without reaver/vehicle spam) as I can cycle shoot -> hide -> heal -> shoot all day. Shouldn't be much more difficult in PS2 - quite the opposite.

With dedicated healers I will be to deal much more damage as you try to close to my position. As your pocket healer won't be able to heal everyone, and you won't be able to heal yourself efficiently.


Edit:
Should hire Tool as my spokesperson!

Last edited by Volw; 2011-07-15 at 06:33 PM.
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Old 2011-07-15, 06:49 PM   [Ignore Me] #25
Hamma
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Re: Suppressive fire


Going to have to agree I don't think a system for this is needed, suppressive fire already exists and it doesn't really need a system wrapped around it.
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Old 2011-07-15, 06:59 PM   [Ignore Me] #26
Tool
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Re: Suppressive fire


Originally Posted by Bags View Post
Increasing gun spray increases my chance to miss randomly. It just seems like an unnecessary layer of complexity that really won't add much.
Consider it this way, if instead of increasing your CoF in PS1 only from rounds fired or getting shot, it would increase from being shot at. The proximity in which it effects you is something developers decide, but it limits your effectiveness at engaging targets. You become less accurate, harder to land hits on enemies, your effectively suppressed.

This adds one key component in my view, which is the need to fire and maneuver. The game becomes less run and gun to more shoot and scoot. What that means is the gunplay turns into something different than your atypical FPS.

I'll try to say it in a way without explaining things in a long, boring way. Is it more skillfull to run headlong into one another trying to land more hits than your opponent or having to really consider your posistion in relation to your enemy and making sure before you take a shot that your in a better posistion than him/her? If done properly the concern of twitch gameplay akin to that of CoD can become less of an issue.

If you run in the open while being fired upon in PS1, you'll probably die. However depending on the weapon you have and the cover around you, you can still be an effective fighter, even with all those bullets coming at you. But with that artifical suppression mechanic, your not an effective fighter, you made a silly choice either being out there by yourself, without an escape route, proper cover, whatever the reason, you should be pinned down if there's a lot of lead coming your way.

It's not removing your ability to fight, it's not random, it's a very tactical element added to what might have been a very plain FPS experience otherwise.
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Old 2011-07-15, 07:02 PM   [Ignore Me] #27
Bags
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Re: Suppressive fire


Sounds less fun than run-and-gun and that's all that matters to me. I'm all for "immersion" and "realism" when it adds to the fun.
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Old 2011-07-15, 07:04 PM   [Ignore Me] #28
Tool
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Re: Suppressive fire


Originally Posted by Bags View Post
Sounds less fun than run-and-gun and that's all that matters to me.
Fair enough, I just think it's a very interesting potential mechanic that perhaps isn't explored enough yet.
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Old 2011-07-15, 07:52 PM   [Ignore Me] #29
Carver
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Re: Suppressive fire


I think it should only be a moderate effect. A little extra crosshair sway/recoil effect when you are under fire. It would not make you useless, just at a slight disadvantage.
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Old 2011-07-15, 08:15 PM   [Ignore Me] #30
Volw
First Sergeant
 
Re: Suppressive fire


Originally Posted by Carver View Post
I think it should only be a moderate effect. A little extra crosshair sway/recoil effect when you are under fire. It would not make you useless, just at a slight disadvantage.
Yep, hence only 5% 'de-buff' so to speak, per source and only if under attack from LMG/HMG type weapons.

LMG/HMG in 'reality' are used for precisely that - suppression. Not having an aspect on which warfare has been based on since after WW1 is rather puzzling.
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