Dual-Wielding - Page 5

exLupo · 2011-08-19, 12:40 AM

Ok. Say someone specs deeply into pistol and unlocks dual wielding. You have to spend all of the money mentioned above. Assuming the person selects "dual wield pistols" and is, until they change loadout, unable to use a pistol in a conventional manner. If you want them to be able to switch out then you have to get the art team to make a custom UI for this mechanic as well. God forbid you want them to be able to dual wield different weapons. Then you have to change the UI mechanics to accompany this new feature.

On the other hand, you could spec deep into pistol and unlock a single machine pistol. You could then skip the majority of the art and tech asset cost for something that is better in every way than dual wielding for all of the same reasons SMG is superior.

So how about it? Machine pistols are both mechanically (for the players) and financially (for the developers) superior. And, with the AMP, they already exist in PS lore. Win/Win/Win.

Originally Posted by Zulthus

I never said it would be "cool". I don't think anyone here has.

I loved them in L4D actually where left and right mouse button went for their respective gun. So cool. The game needs more cool stuff. - Sirisian
I think dual pistols as an unlockable skill would be pretty cool, but only pistols. - Raymac
I actually like the idea for the "cool" factor. - Crator

Talek Krell · 2011-08-19, 12:44 AM

Not to mention, the shotgun already fills the role of a close combat weapon with low accuracy. While a real pilot wouldn't generally have one, in Planetside it's perfectly reasonable that a pilot or driver would carry a medium assault weapon.

Peacemaker · 2011-08-19, 01:01 AM

Anyone worth their salt at the range will tell you that a single pistol will always beat out an idiot running around with two. The only way to shoot two pistols at the same time is to Index the target, that is match a sight picture without the sights. The only way to do this is to practice endlessly to shoot a certain target from a certain range.

Lets have a pistol duel though. 25 Feet. I'll double tap you in the head before you get four inaccurate shots off. Like its been said, the game does not need it. Unlock an AMP style gun instead, or upgrade the pistol its self. Unless your standing behind someone dual wielding wouldn't and shouldn't be effective. If your shooting 20 bullets and 6 hit and I shot 10 bullets and 6 hit at twice the range I think Ima win.

Zulthus · 2011-08-19, 01:09 AM

Originally Posted by Peacemaker

Anyone worth their salt at the range will tell you that a single pistol will always beat out an idiot running around with two. The only way to shoot two pistols at the same time is to Index the target, that is match a sight picture without the sights. The only way to do this is to practice endlessly to shoot a certain target from a certain range.

Lets have a pistol duel though. 25 Feet. I'll double tap you in the head before you get four inaccurate shots off. Like its been said, the game does not need it. Unlock an AMP style gun instead, or upgrade the pistol its self. Unless your standing behind someone dual wielding wouldn't and shouldn't be effective. If your shooting 20 bullets and 6 hit and I shot 10 bullets and 6 hit at twice the range I think Ima win.

Yes...I get the whole "at range" thing... the idea was for indoor combat, where DW would be more effective.

exLupo · 2011-08-19, 01:12 AM

Originally Posted by Zulthus

Yes...I get the whole "at range" thing... the idea was for indoor combat, where DW would be more effective.

Yet still inferior to the AMP which already exists.

Zulthus · 2011-08-19, 01:24 AM

Originally Posted by exLupo

Yet still inferior to the AMP which already exists.

Do you know if the AMP will be in PS2?

Bravix · 2011-08-19, 01:25 AM

Originally Posted by exLupo

Yet still inferior to the AMP which already exists.

Yep. All the AMP is, is a machine pistol. It's gonna shoot the same bullets as the pistols, but at a higher RoF and better accuracy since it's a single weapon. Only takes one holster slot too.

Zulthus · 2011-08-19, 01:29 AM

Originally Posted by Bravix

Yep. All the AMP is, is a machine pistol. It's gonna shoot the same bullets as the pistols, but at a higher RoF and better accuracy since it's a single weapon. Only takes one holster slot too.

Refer to my previous post

exLupo · 2011-08-19, 01:29 AM

Originally Posted by Zulthus

Do you know if the AMP will be in PS2?

I don't but why would they go through the trouble of adding DW when they already have the lore and concept of what you want with the AMP?

It's easier, it's cheaper, it's more realistic (see: contextual realism) and it already exists in the lore.

Assuming both the AMP and the DW mechanic do not currently exist, which is a more sound decision from a development standpoint? No true Scotsman would say DW.

Zulthus · 2011-08-19, 01:31 AM

Originally Posted by exLupo

I don't but why would they go through the trouble of adding DW when they already have the lore and concept of what you want with the AMP?

It's easier, it's cheaper, it's more realistic (see: contextual realism) and it already exists in the lore.

Assuming both the AMP and the DW mechanic do not currently exist, which is a more sound decision from a development standpoint? No true Scotsman would say DW.

Because it's a new game, adding more features?

exLupo · 2011-08-19, 01:36 AM

Originally Posted by Zulthus

Because it's a new game, adding more features?

So, you're going to pay for the difference between adding DW than adding the AMP? I don't imagine they have either an unlimited budget or time. I'm sure they'll be happy to if you foot the bill. Otherwise, AMP all the way.

Role: High rof CQC pistol.
Options: AMP or DW
Advantages of the AMP over DW : Cheaper and easier to implement. Lore exists.
Advantages of DW over the AMP : Will bring in gamers who want DW.

Financial statements are way easier to argue with management than a "vague maybe". Once assets exist it becomes exponentially more expensive to invent and implement new, non-backend mechanics.

Raymac · 2011-08-19, 01:47 AM

I don't think it has to be an "either / or" thing.

Zulthus · 2011-08-19, 01:48 AM

I made this thread to ask opinions on DWing, not whether you want it or the AMP. I can see that almost no one wants it, which is to be expected. Quit acting like SOE has a budget of five dollars for the game. It doesn't cost an arm to add it in if they felt like it. I think the thread has run its course.

Captain1nsaneo · 2011-08-19, 03:08 AM

I can think of a VVF reason to not have DW.
Magscatters.

The argument that the basic pistols won't be in the game is stupid, we've already seen the repeater in the hands of a TR so thinking that the other two* aren't in there is like saying the prowler won't be in the game when we've seen the vanguard and the magrider.

Take a breath and just sit back for a second Zulthus. Your tone just bleeds frustration. It's ok to be wrong man. What's more important is to not to respond like Firefly just insulted your younger sister. You may like DW but some of us hate it because it doubles the potential damage of what has to already be a viable weapon and someone WILL find a way to make it effective despite what is done with CoF or reload times. Humans are like that.

Personally I'd like to hear your argument for it beyond "it's cool". Why is it cool? Why is DW better indoors than other weapons? They might be better in stairwells. The only thing I can think of that would benefit from DW would be cloakers who depend on point blank engagement. Are there others?

*The Beamer isn't a pistol, it's a flashlight.

Zulthus · 2011-08-19, 03:38 AM

Originally Posted by Captain1nsaneo

I can think of a VVF reason to not have DW.
Magscatters.

The argument that the basic pistols won't be in the game is stupid, we've already seen the repeater in the hands of a TR so thinking that the other two* aren't in there is like saying the prowler won't be in the game when we've seen the vanguard and the magrider.

Take a breath and just sit back for a second Zulthus. Your tone just bleeds frustration. It's ok to be wrong man. What's more important is to not to respond like Firefly just insulted your younger sister. You may like DW but some of us hate it because it doubles the potential damage of what has to already be a viable weapon and someone WILL find a way to make it effective despite what is done with CoF or reload times. Humans are like that.

Personally I'd like to hear your argument for it beyond "it's cool". Why is it cool? Why is DW better indoors than other weapons? They might be better in stairwells. The only thing I can think of that would benefit from DW would be cloakers who depend on point blank engagement. Are there others?

*The Beamer isn't a pistol, it's a flashlight.

Frustrated? Not at all. Tired of asshats in the forums? Certainly. Again, where have I ever said I thought it's cool? Where have I said I liked the idea of DW? I created the thead to hear other's opinions on it. As I said earlier in the thread, I don't care for it myself. You need to read the thread. My OP said pistols; people come in and post "No. Do not want akimbo chainguns."

Also, can you link the picture with the repeater? I'd love to see some new info.