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Old 2013-01-02, 01:46 PM   [Ignore Me] #391
Rago
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Re: Huge Outfits and PlanetSide 2


Im Happy Hamma does something and raise his Voice for us.

Im following this discussion a little longer and i don´t have to tell you that the Game has some problems, overall it is a good game but it seems to miss a lot of elemental things.

I just , yeah understand Soe position, they have to work on their stuff and that a Lot, right right, but is it the customers Fault, that they released it that early, they may have financial Problems would be a Explanation but that just guessing into the Blue,...

Well i just want to show at least my appreciation, to Hamma doing the Vid.
We all know the issues we all see them, we have to Live with them until they are worked out.

Why not making a "Beta-Patch" Team, im sure People would be happy to help Soe Out, so many suggetions and Discussion going on here,...
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Old 2013-01-02, 02:21 PM   [Ignore Me] #392
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Re: Huge Outfits and PlanetSide 2


I absolutely support Hamma in all these concerns.

I stopped playing semi-awesome PS2 a few days ago, i didn´t even played more than once during double-XP-Vocation.
Just because i see no in-game depth, not enough metagame, faction-imbalance/zergs on the single continents, too open Bases.

Hamma, keep up the good work!
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Old 2013-01-02, 02:42 PM   [Ignore Me] #393
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Re: Huge Outfits and PlanetSide 2


Originally Posted by Hamma View Post
.....





Remember in my video when I said not all large outfits suck? Some actually aren't zergs? I could have been referring to your outfit you know but apparently you fail at seeing the big picture.

Usually if you are over 1600 players you are spam /inviting. You aren't an outfit, you are a zerg.

Instead of derailing my thread that focuses on a hugely important issue for your own personal reasons why don't you try just not posting. For some reason you have always thought I am out to target you which couldn't be further from the truth. You cant deny there are problems with this game and there are literally no tactics involved. Not everyone wants to "Farm" the enemy 16 hours a day.

Now let's get this thread back on track shall we? Thanks!
I posted late one night after holding it in for many days. When you tweeted, you it was a blanket statement. We appreciated the distiction in your new video, which is good.
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Old 2013-01-02, 03:02 PM   [Ignore Me] #394
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Re: Huge Outfits and PlanetSide 2


When windows were mentioned I thought of this as a solution:

Window Blast Shields -> Each window should have a door that can be opened/closed from within the building, a simple "Hold E for one second" to open / close would be good, with a 10 or so second time period where it can not be flipped.

As it is now the windows have a benefit for the defenders vs infantry, but as soon as any decent number of vehicles surround the base they are just kill zones, as mentioned in the video. Not to mention light assault being able to enter through windows.

PlanetSide was a bit too overboard on base enclosure, but giving bases the ability to be converted into a defense mode is one thing that PlanetSide 2 desperately needs.

Deploying CE and preparing a base for a defense, then finally that long battle to defend was one of the most enjoyable kind of experience in PlanetSide, in contrast to that in my opinion PlanetSide 2 really shines with open field battles, but they are rare, simply because there isn't that incentive.

Defenders need an advantage, before the tech plant change, you actually saw some nice drawn out defense battles, and they were fun; attackers had to think creatively to defeat a well entrenched garrison, and the usage of abilities like the Shield Disrupted actually ended up being more than just gimmicks
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Old 2013-01-02, 04:04 PM   [Ignore Me] #395
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Re: Huge Outfits and PlanetSide 2


Honestly, I think limiting sundy spawn opportunities as well as making some vehicle tweaks (i.e. no one shot AoE tanks, but one shot direct hit tanks etc......) would certainly make things a lot better for the players, as well as the developers in terms of their development time.

When I have some time I want to post a Sundy spawn idea that should have minimal effect on small squads, but can have an significant impact on large squads if they continually die.
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Old 2013-01-02, 05:13 PM   [Ignore Me] #396
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Re: Huge Outfits and PlanetSide 2


Another comment...

SOE needs to decide what kind of game PS2 is going to be and how they want it to be played.

The beta system where certs were awarded by controlling and holding the main bases was not perfect and certainly wasn't great for someone looking to log in, get some kills, and get rewarded... BUT - had they simply made resources/certs earned stretch across the continents... it would've forced (and even in its imperfect forum, more or less did) people to play PS2 like a tactical war game.
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Old 2013-01-03, 06:02 AM   [Ignore Me] #397
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Re: Huge Outfits and PlanetSide 2


Originally Posted by FireWater View Post
Honestly, I think limiting sundy spawn opportunities as well as making some vehicle tweaks (i.e. no one shot AoE tanks, but one shot direct hit tanks etc......) would certainly make things a lot better for the players, as well as the developers in terms of their development time.

When I have some time I want to post a Sundy spawn idea that should have minimal effect on small squads, but can have an significant impact on large squads if they continually die.
Limiting Sundy spawns in itself won't promote good infantry on infantry gameplay (imho).

Planetside is all about controlling spawns. Which is why spawn camping is so bad (obviously) and why, destroying an AMS (or perhaps) the only AMS at a base is great for the defenders.

And that's the good part, destroying AMSES is good for the defenders, and we're saying buff the defenders (or at least defences).

However, if the attackers AMS goes, the fight is over. Similarly if the spawns are camped the fight is over. It's the same thing from a different direction.

If 1 AMS is destroyed is doesn't matter much as long as there is another, but if the other one is too far away it might as well not be there at all.

What we need is something that will sustain a prolonged fight such that neither side loses too easily and that winning requires effort and hopefully some squad coordination.

Personally I dont see a way of doing this that doesn't involve 'fortress' type bases and outposts.
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Old 2013-01-03, 09:42 AM   [Ignore Me] #398
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Re: Huge Outfits and PlanetSide 2


Good meta and mission system will nerf zergfits significantly.

But I have a story for people who lead 1000+ member outfits.
There is a game called Global Agenda, and when it never was realy popular, EU scene completely died only few months ago. Guess why? People where trying to keep some kind of competition so they were reforming agencies. Ofcaurse, it's not that easy in PS2 since you cant transfer your char but still...
Making the best outfit and blaming other people for not doing the same thing wont save the game.

ps: sorry for my bad engrish

Last edited by Maidere; 2013-01-03 at 09:44 AM.
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Old 2013-01-03, 11:14 PM   [Ignore Me] #399
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Re: Huge Outfits and PlanetSide 2


As the leader of a small outfit (usually 8-10 guys on TS running 2-3 squads filled out with public members), we've done several things to mitigate the fact that we don't have the numbers of larger outfits.

Talk to your fellow outfits! We regularly communicate with all the other VS outfits on Mattherson like GOTR, TEST, AT, VR, NNG, among others and figure out where they are and what they're doing at a specific time.

There's no mission system, but there's plenty of ways to create your own small missions, especially when you're working in concert with a larger outfit.

For example; Mattherson just had quite the epic battle for VS to keep their continent lock on Indar. All of the available outfits pulled back to Indar from other continents to save our lock and fought a huge pitched battle centered around a back and forth from Peris Amp to Ceres Farms. We assisted pushes by having everyone do the same thing (pull AA at the same time and clear the skies, or pull AT and volleys of lockon rockets to kill tanks).

We also created our own objectives similar to dropping behind lines from PS1. At one point on the final Peris push that kept the base for us, we had a pair of squads drop on the Vertical/Horizontal shield generators by having a squad leader ditch a Scythe above them in a LA kit and drop a beacon on top while the rest of the squad sat on the Deployment screen. We overloaded the gens and then held that position for as long as we could.

As it turned out we got pushed off one of them right as GOTR/TEST rolled up, but the fact that the NC had sent a huge amount of guys at our generator meant that our buddies were able to get in the courtyard a lot faster because the enemy was focused on us.

We did this again at Hvar; we had all 3 squads use instant action to get there, dropped the shield gens, and held them for as long as we could. We were about to lose our hold on everything when GOTR rolled up and finished the job for us. We were all set to do it again at Tawrich before the hex-crashing stuff ruined our night.

Did we single handedly win these fights? No. But we were certainly contributors in that we ruined potential defensive positions by focusing our efforts and working in concert with other outfits.

I would love to see more sub objectives, more defensible positions, and everything else discussed in this thread; I think all of these things would benefit everyone playing PS2. We have our nights where things aren't working as smoothly as they were tonight and we grumble about our lack of numbers too. But we see light at the end of the tunnel, and things will only get better if we continue to raise our voices constructively in support of more depth in PS2.

Additionally, if you're thinking about opening up your squads to public members in order to bolster your numbers (we have a max of 6 guys to a squad with the rest as publics, with 80% of our tactical talk ingame and TS more for bullshitting and overall strategy), I highly encourage it. We've been running purely open squads for the last two weeks, and two things have happened:

1. It's helped us take objectives we wouldn't otherwise be able to take thanks to herding the publics toward waypoints (not to mention recruiting opportunities and generally helping to organize your empire)
2. As we've done it more, we see the same faces over and over again and have generally seen the quality of our public members rise as people realize we're talking and coordinating.

Yeah, the ingame comms can be a pain to use, but that's been the big difference maker for us.

Last edited by Ellipson; 2013-01-03 at 11:32 PM.
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Old 2013-01-04, 12:41 AM   [Ignore Me] #400
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Re: Huge Outfits and PlanetSide 2


I've come to the conclusion, that for every player who, is willing to lead, there is about 30-40 that would rather follow. For every 30-40 that want to follow.. there is about 50% of that figure that would rather do their own thing. This game lacks a real incentive, or even a real need for structure of groups.

The current certification system, while fun to unlock stuff, is terribly flawed and very focused on individual gains rather than faction or even outfit gains, for the most part it's just a pat on the back system. As it is all options are a common pool options, with no real benefit or sense of achievement based on your particular role. I really feel PS2 needs to divide the current system up into a mixed categories rather than a common pool system.

Infantry (common pool)
utilizes the current class system, for weapons/skills/gear unlocks
Vehicle Specialist (Pilot's pool)
utilizes the current system for vehicles only, as well requires a player to unlock empire specific vehicles/weaponry an equipment unlocks with vehicle certification points.
Squad Leadership (leadership pool)
Removes the leadership cert from common pool an places it into a separate field. Adds a % based certification reward system for squad leaders achieving objectives. (either success of defense or attack)
Platoon Leadership (command pool)
Adds a % based certification system for Platoon leaders who's Squad leaders achieve objectives. As well various new tools an markers for designating objective markers that only squad leaders can see. Dedicated Platoon/squad leader comm systems. (attack/or defense)
Outfit Logistics (Outfit pool)
Utilizes a % tax system for certifications an resources, of all members or volunteered members. Depending on how the outfit leader wants. These outfit logistic certs are useful for unlocking/expanding the outfits strength/size by expanding the roster with additional players. New outfit starts off with 100 members, with the logistic cert system paying to expand with either additional +platoon strength, or simply +50/100 members for each unlock.

This may not prevent zergfits from mass recruiting entirely. Nor will it prevent larger groups from splintering into smaller outfits under a TS command structure under the same leadership as the previous large outfit. The logistics pool/outfit options rewards large organized groups being successful, as well rewards outfits with a highly active playerbase. Outfits looking to stockpile/unlock features will be more dedicated to large rosters of active players an less likely to zergcruit inactive roster lists. As well those outfit features will have a considerable cost, but a cost that isn't ridiculous to achieve, a balance in cost will prevent the desire to massrecruit (but not eliminate).

Reasoning...

Contribution of members to the outfit cert pool via tax%, is to unlock outfits ability to purchase deployable features. Call down support items, from air strikes, bombardments, supplies, fortifications, mine fields (anti-personnel, vehicle or even air) or any other fancy outfit only ideas.

All these options can be stockpiled, just like consumables an require resources to purchase once unlocked. These options will then be available to Platoon an Squad leaders that purchase the unlocks in their own certification trees.

Base Layouts Need a serious overhaul, the addition of "tank traps" to impede vehicle movement inside facility compounds is not enough. They can still cleverly get past them, I've done it as have many others. Main base spawn facilities are broken, easily camped an locked down to choke off base defense. Additional below ground rooms/halls an access to outer walls, inner base facility is an ABSOLUTE must.

This will increase defense ability of the major facilities, allowing defenders during a siege, who at this point are all infantry, an cannot push out with any vehicle strength to throw off the overwhelming tanks/air saturating the above ground access/exit points. This will give them a last man standing fighting chance and with the right numbers/organization an skill the ability to PUSH out the assault groups holding the cap points. Currently the only facility that really offers this is the biolab an it still could use some overhaul to it's design.
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Last edited by Archonzero; 2013-01-04 at 02:37 AM.
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Old 2013-01-04, 01:08 AM   [Ignore Me] #401
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Re: Huge Outfits and PlanetSide 2


PS1 strategically speaking, had everything.. well maybe not everything. It did have a lot of things done right, generally speaking, they had 3-4 years of development to get a proper metagame in place and a game that ran 10 years.

There is a desperate need to establish a lattice system to the current adjacency system. As it is.. one side attacks, the other reacts. Other than eyes on the ground, a faction that is communicating effectively amidst it's playerbase/ outfits (to which there really isn't that much, outside of a few outfits) there is no real concept for the faction as a whole as to where the next attack is going or coming from until it happens. Not saying there are no players that can strategically speaking figure out, but as a game design overlay there is none. Most organized defense is purely a reactionary action inside the current PS2 framework.

The addition of a lattice system linking the large + major facilities in an unlock/lock web while leaving the midsized/smaller outposts as resource only options, SOE can add a strategic depth to the game. That will allow faction members to draw their own tactical/strategic initiatives based on what is happening when an where. Coupled with active eyes reconnoitering the active areas, squad leaders, platoon commanders an leaders can get a decent strategic concept as to the flow of the battle an establish proper counters or defensive measures to stem or defeat a steamrolling assault before it's even hit their main lines. Smaller outfits and groups can maintain control of and flow of resources, while larger groups can maintain the attack/defense over the strategic inroads of held territories.
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Last edited by Archonzero; 2013-01-04 at 07:45 PM.
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Old 2013-01-04, 11:58 AM   [Ignore Me] #402
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Re: Huge Outfits and PlanetSide 2


Originally Posted by Archonzero View Post
They had 10 years of development to get a proper metagame in place.
I wish people would stop saying that. Yes, PS1 existed for 10 years. Doesn't mean they spent working on the game all those years. And in fact they didn't.
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Old 2013-01-04, 12:02 PM   [Ignore Me] #403
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Re: Huge Outfits and PlanetSide 2


Originally Posted by Archonzero View Post
they had 10 years of development to get a proper metagame in place.
No it didn't. Lattice and most other aspects were in place in beta or shortly after.

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Old 2013-01-04, 12:27 PM   [Ignore Me] #404
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Re: Huge Outfits and PlanetSide 2


I think that when I started (May 2004) all the continents and caves were present.

After that point all I recall is warpgate transforming into broadcast warpgates when the appropriate conditions were met, BFR's, Scout rifle, Dragon and Scorpion, Capital Shields with a couple of iterations and merits.

Of course, br20 was increased to BR25 after a couple of years and then to BR40 after a few more.

But that was it (I think). All the important stuff was in within 1 year of launch.

On the downside, the game was very very unstable for many years. In fact more unstable than I think PS2 is now.
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Old 2013-01-04, 12:28 PM   [Ignore Me] #405
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Re: Huge Outfits and PlanetSide 2


Holy Double-post Batman!
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