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Old 2012-11-29, 03:40 AM   [Ignore Me] #46
Tooterfish
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Re: Why so nerfed?


Garrix, damage isn't everything, good players understand that damage is only maybe 20% of the effectiveness in weapon stats. I think I elaborated this in detail already. Are you reading the threads or looking for key words to get worked up over?
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Last edited by Tooterfish; 2012-11-29 at 03:42 AM.
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Old 2012-11-29, 05:18 AM   [Ignore Me] #47
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Re: Why so nerfed?


This debate kinda reminds me of MAG on PS3.

MAG also had 3 factions to choose from each with a gun/play style. SVER was the "hit harder" CQC , Valor the middle men, and Raven was the high tech bunch with high ROF. Zipper made one hell of a game with MAG, but didn't do crap to keep it balanced.

In MAG every map was made to have the main objectives in a CQC area. Although the rest of the map could be made into anything every objective was in a tight space that played to one factions style more than the others, SVER. That lead to SVER taking over and holding every game mode there was before long. After that a snowball effect took over and by the time I quit MAG it was impossible for either Raven or Valor or touch SVER thanks to player base alone.

In PS2 it's the other way around. Everything is made to be at range with open bases, exposed cap points, and having vertical play a huge factor by way of drop pods, jetpacks, and aircraft in general. The NC isn't made for ranged battles with stock weapons. They just don't have the accuracy needed for 30m+. Yes with certs you can make accuracy better, but so can the others killing you. It'll be the same fight but from farther away.

Once more I use the MAXes as an example. If I see a TR or VS MAX at 30m as a troop I run due to them being able to kill me easy. It may take a bit but they have the health to tank what I can do. But if Im playing a MAX as NC. IM the one that has to run at 30m out if a troop spots me. Hell, most of the pellets from that scattergun can still miss at 10m out. Think about that. A MAX having to run from troops if they are more than 10m-15m away! WTF is right with that?

There are reasons why the NC on Waterson are often fighting for every inch of land. The NC have taken over a map a few times, but I always see them with the least land if the pop numbers are about equal. I have never seen the NC take the upper hand map wise without having a pop advantage. We have tried many times, only to get pushed back with ease.
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Old 2012-11-29, 05:27 AM   [Ignore Me] #48
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Re: Why so nerfed?


MAG is, indeed, a great example of how balance can destroy an otherwise incredible accomplishment of a game.

Originally Posted by Chewy View Post
I have never seen the NC take the upper hand map wise without having a pop advantage. We have tried many times, only to get pushed back with ease.
I have to say, regardless of balance, NC still seem pretty popular, and I think our numbers help even things out most of the time.
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Old 2012-11-29, 05:37 AM   [Ignore Me] #49
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Re: Why so nerfed?


Originally Posted by Tooterfish View Post
Garrix, damage isn't everything, good players understand that damage is only maybe 20% of the effectiveness in weapon stats. I think I elaborated this in detail already. Are you reading the threads or looking for key words to get worked up over?
You will, however, note that that document shows that much more than just damage is far out of sync. Did you read the link posted, or are you looking for things to get worked up over?
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Old 2012-11-29, 05:41 AM   [Ignore Me] #50
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Re: Why so nerfed?


I misunderstood what you were saying, you are right and I agree. Sorry for being rude.
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Old 2012-11-29, 07:45 AM   [Ignore Me] #51
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Re: Why so nerfed?


NC guns in general (and LMGs in particular) have the largest vertical and horizontal recoil/spread of all the empires. I don't even have to say IMO on this one, as it's just true. Which makes compensation under continuos fire extremely difficult.

NC damage per shot is higher, yes, but it's kind of pointless when it's difficult to hit things with them.

Currently:
High damage : high recoil/large COF + low rof

Should be:
High damage : low ROF
is enough of a counter IMO.
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Old 2012-11-29, 03:15 PM   [Ignore Me] #52
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Re: Why so nerfed?


Originally Posted by Tooterfish View Post
MAG is, indeed, a great example of how balance can destroy an otherwise incredible accomplishment of a game.



I have to say, regardless of balance, NC still seem pretty popular, and I think our numbers help even things out most of the time.
Ah, a fellow man that played MAG. Good show. (back on topic)

NC may be popular now but it won't last after the first weeks. Using MAG again for example, Valor was the one that had the masses (Ex US army "good guys") and that didn't help them. Granted MAGs downfall was mostly due to maps being locked to each faction and those maps being a "WTF are you thinking" in balance choices for the better half of the games life. However the idea still has merit to my eyes.

If a map is made to fit either ranged, medium, or CQC fights it will always be an advantage it the factions that fit those styles. Both TR and VS can be med to ranged without spending certs to either upgrade or replace weapons. NC have to spend certs to get out of CQC battles. Be that a upgrade or a whole new gun, certs are needed to take the fight to the enemy.

Skill will and is always going to be a factor in this but a wide COF is something skill will never be able to over come. A weapon with a low COF may do less damage, but it can hit far more and at greater ranges with skill as a factor. If you remove skill (make all players equal) and full upgrades on all weapons then the fight will still be the same. With NC being the shortest range faction.
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Old 2012-12-14, 06:46 PM   [Ignore Me] #53
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Re: Why so nerfed?


NC really need a buff in their stock weapons. Basically the creators have made it so that we are useless unless we pay tonnes of station cash to buy the upgraded guns and even then we're only subpar at that point. BUFF NC!
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Old 2012-12-14, 07:29 PM   [Ignore Me] #54
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Re: Why so nerfed?


Dude. Stop necroing dead threads. I can't image macro fast enough.
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Old 2012-12-14, 07:31 PM   [Ignore Me] #55
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Re: Why so nerfed?


They'll be dead when they're locked by a TR/VS developer or when the NC issue is resolved.
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Old 2012-12-14, 07:37 PM   [Ignore Me] #56
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Re: Why so nerfed?


I think you misunderstand my point. Post away!
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Old 2012-12-14, 07:38 PM   [Ignore Me] #57
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Re: Why so nerfed?


Just try and stop me! :-)
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Old 2012-12-14, 09:12 PM   [Ignore Me] #58
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Re: Why so nerfed?


Originally Posted by maradine View Post
I think you misunderstand my point. Post away!
Just like in game... miss the point then blame the weapon.
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Old 2012-12-15, 12:58 PM   [Ignore Me] #59
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Re: Why so nerfed?


BeerBeer had it right on the nail here with the issue with NC guns.
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