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Old 2012-03-28, 06:40 PM   [Ignore Me] #76
Vash02
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Re: Pageant contestant disqualified over strange circumstances.


Taking the knife to the groin = no.
Taking the knife to the boobs, belly, bottom and face = fine.

Hypocrisy.



Also Q, they are a business, they couldnt discriminate even if they were in the US.
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Click here to go to the next VIP post in this thread.   Old 2012-03-28, 06:49 PM   [Ignore Me] #77
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Re: Pageant contestant disqualified over strange circumstances.


Meh.
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Old 2012-03-28, 07:46 PM   [Ignore Me] #78
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Re: Pageant contestant disqualified over strange circumstances.


Originally Posted by Figment
And his rights end where those of others start.
They certainly start in his wallet, and they dont end with whom he chooses to associate.


Originally Posted by Figment
On another note. Things like stereotyping stimulates inferiority complexes. Your gang wars? Your... "gangsta" hip hop culture? A lot of those people are self-inflicting and self-affirming those stereotypes and wasting their potential of human beings, because they actually believe that's what they are, or should be. It's not exactly beneficial to society to allow stereotyping.
Why would you bring this up? The "gangster" culture is not an example of someone else intruding on another persons rights. Granted its stupid, but its self inflicted but that is not illegal nor is it an intrusion.

Originally Posted by Figment
If I were you, I'd be more than a bit upset that you got severe racial segregation and racial gang creation occuring in US prisons. Something not true for most other countries.
Prison is prison. Its not polite society nor is it a refection of it. Why is it even relevant to the topic at hand?

Originally Posted by Figment
But yes, Voltaire on free speech. Just a shame free speech is abused so much. Like freedom of religion it is often used as well to propagate hate or to prey on the weak through sektarian cults (mass suicides, Japanese metro gas attacks). The way these rights are abused until they lead to mass violations of the human rights of others is despicable. Attempting to stop the spreading of lies and hate, eh... Would have less problems with that.
Mass violations? Citation please.

Originally Posted by Figment
It's ironic though that right wing Americans always cling to freedom of speech and other freedoms, after having created the huge anti-Communist manhunts before and being one of the last nations to give blacks similar rights.
Wow, how did you manage to cram that much fictitious crap in that small of a paragraph?

First whats up the the right wing comment? Second you are comparing the Red scare with the civil rights movement? Third are you seriously trying to claim that 2 events that most people here were not even alive for are relevant to the topic at hand? If they are relevant do I get to slap you around with US vs. Europe comparisons, because I would love to trot out your history with the colonial period, European religious intolerance, and what I like to call "Europe-discovers-human-rights-after-murdering-minorities-in-WW2"

Originally Posted by Figment
Even today their voting rights are often sabotaged in certain states and you even have a law that every voting law has to be double checked by Washington because certain states are untrustworthy.
Citation please, because I think you are pulling this one out of your rear.

Originally Posted by Figment
Considering the above, don't get anyone started on that.
No I think we will get started. Lets start with the Canadian Human Rights Tribunals, Richard Warman, and his sock-puppet sting operations.
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Old 2012-03-29, 01:32 AM   [Ignore Me] #79
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Re: Pageant contestant disqualified over strange circumstances.


Just to nit pick: gender is social, sex is biological.
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Old 2012-03-29, 01:38 AM   [Ignore Me] #80
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Re: Pageant contestant disqualified over strange circumstances.


And what Figment was referring to:
http://www.justice.gov/crt/about/vot/sec_5/about.php
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Old 2012-03-29, 03:06 AM   [Ignore Me] #81
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Re: Pageant contestant disqualified over strange circumstances.


Originally Posted by Sobekeus View Post
Does it even matter anymore? Ban the Bigot.
Bigot? Because I don't agree with homosexuality? I don't agree that men should invade contests for women then shriek about being treated unfairly when they are kicked out? Would you think it was fair for an adult to enter a contest for children, because he or she looked younger, then get mad and sue everyone in sight when they were stripped of their title, because the contest didn't have a six-inch thick rulebook covering every single possible deviant human behavior that could possibly result in disqualification?

Isn't that like men entering athletics for women, or anything else for women, and then being angry for being disqualified?

Some things are inferred. Such as "female humans who were born female humans only are to be contestants." Just because something isn't strictly prohibited doesn't mean it's welcome. I mean, you could probably find somewhere on Earth where it's legal to marry your dog, or at least not specifically banned. Not everything is spelled out.

No amount of surgery turns a man into a woman. If you want to win pageants for men, then enter them. But to enter a pageant as a woman just because you had an operation? Nah. It's just more gay agenda, trying to make everyone bow down to their way of doing things.

Which, in the USA, they have the legal right to do. It's one of the freest places on Earth. And people also have the legal right to oppose them.
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Old 2012-03-29, 06:50 AM   [Ignore Me] #82
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Re: Pageant contestant disqualified over strange circumstances.


Originally Posted by Sgt Shultz View Post
They certainly start in his wallet, and they dont end with whom he chooses to associate.
No, but they do start where random image building and 'prosecution' (not judicial per see, more in the form of bullying) start. Do you think it okay for kids to bully each other? Do they get punished or detention for it?

Why would you bring this up? The "gangster" culture is not an example of someone else intruding on another persons rights. Granted its stupid, but its self inflicted but that is not illegal nor is it an intrusion.
Well this is a long story and an indirect side-effect. It's a side effect of historic ethnic oppression and induced poverty. ie policies based on racial opinion that still linger on mentally because they caused so much damage to self-awareness and self-confidence, as well as segregated thinking and social-economic situations (which I hope corrects itself through education over time, but that will take some more generations).

Long story short, it lead to the formation of ghettos and the idea that you can't be anything more because you are not allowed to by the big bad whites. It's stupid certainly and very self-inflicted. But this stereotyping happens due to role models. It's one of those sub-culture things that for instance Bill Cosby has been fighting by providing alternative role models.

It's a long term effect of an image of "what black, ghetto culture is all about and what its populace are" that grew into the US society over time. Getting that mental state out of a whole populace is going to be very hard and it does lead to physical problems, in the sense that it makes it becomes a self fullfilling prophecy. When "gangsta kids" act and dress like that, it makes it harder to get a job, re-enforcing any inferiority complex they may have. "Blame" lies both with themselves for not correcting it and those who initiated the segregation thinking. That said, I don't 'believe' in supporting the concept of "white man's guilt" (that we as descendants are responsible to correct everything). This is society's problem than any particular ethnicity's.

Prison is prison. Its not polite society nor is it a refection of it. Why is it even relevant to the topic at hand?
Because those people get out of prison and continue expanding their gangs there? You have not heard of huge gangs being setup and connecting/incorporating gangs all over the United States? These gangs include racially motivated hate doctrines among other things to create a bond, gain more power and up the rivalry with other gangs. That can definitely lead to massive outbreaks of violence in regular society eventually, whether or not aimed at each other or innocent bystanders.

Mass violations? Citation please.
Any situation where words lead to group thinking and mental states of mind that were so strongly filled with hatred people start acting irrationally on it. KKK, nazis, communist repression (both by and against communists), inquisitions, you name it. I don't feel giving a lot of maneuvring space to such "opinions" is beneficial to society. All it takes is the "right conditions", among which a charismatic leader with the wrong ideas, a state of despair for populace (need for some sort of promise of salvation), poor education and a scape goat to turn words of hate into acts of violence.

Wow, how did you manage to cram that much fictitious crap in that small of a paragraph? [...]
I noted you were among the LAST nations for equal rights and still are among the last in terms of other civil rights, depends on what state we are talking about, of course.

Citation please, because I think you are pulling this one out of your rear.
See the link provided by TheShift. In particular, president Johnson wanted to make sure that these states didn't try to obstruct voting by coloured people through underhand means.

I'll refer to this bit in particular:
"Application of this formula resulted in the following states becoming, in their entirety, "covered jurisdictions": Alabama, Alaska, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina, and Virginia, In addition, certain political subdivisions (usually counties) in four other states (Arizona, Hawaii, Idaho, and North Carolina were covered. It also provided a procedure to terminate this coverage."

There is currently a lawsuit going verifying whether this is "discrimination of these states in national law" at the court of Columbia if I'm not mistaken.

Practices that were objectional were things like asking arbitrary questions one cannot answer to black voters, to "verify" if they were smart enough to vote. Such questions include (actual example!) being able to tell how many how many bubbles come from a bar of soap... One of the reasons that it is being verified now, is that legislation changed again in one of those states. The new demand is a birth certificate and being able to read, which excludes a lot of the older, coloured populace since either a doctor or a nurse present at the birth had to establish that they were born. Which of course did not happen for a certain populace bit. Similarly, analfabetism under a certain populace group is also higher due to segregation laws before 1960.

In other words, it's to verify whether Republicans in these states try to prevent likely Democrat votees from voting and thus try to rig the elections in their favour.

I suppose you don't remember election fraud (attempts) regarding the election of Bush Jr.?

No I think we will get started. Lets start with the Canadian Human Rights Tribunals, Richard Warman, and his sock-puppet sting operations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Warman

This guy? What about him? Personally never heard of him, checked the critique on him and I'd agree that there's a level of ambiguity if he indeed acts as complainant and investigator. However, I do not share the critique that free speech is at stake when the freedom of harmful individuals is 'endangered'. And yes, I consider "hate speech" as fearmongering and an attempt at creating support for "angry mobs". Whether or not they actually carry pitch forks, if they act upon it through discrimination it infringes on the rights of others already. Spreading such ideas I find to be more undermining of society than restricting what I'll define as the "free speech of individuals with an agenda to corrupt society".

That said, other critique I don't share as much. It's not like entrapment isn't a method that was widely applied in the US to expose prostitutes and their clientelle. Tbh, that I find a violation of freedoms in itself, determining whether or not you can use your own body for that. For exposing forced prostitution and all crime related to that, or infiltration to get to organised crime and terrorists, sure. I do consider the oppressive and murderous scapegoatism stimulated by nazism a crime though. Now if it was just national pride and social thinking, fine, that's a philosophical freedom. Enforcing fascist dictatorship and genocide on others? Not so much. Preventing that sort of thing is better than curing it. Because you can't cure millions of people dieing or being oppressed once it has happened.

Last edited by Figment; 2012-03-29 at 07:14 AM.
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Old 2012-03-29, 06:57 AM   [Ignore Me] #83
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Re: Pageant contestant disqualified over strange circumstances.


Originally Posted by Traak View Post
Bigot? Because I don't agree with homosexuality?
What? Because you JUDGE a person for being homosexual, there's no such thing as agreeing with it because it's not a choice or political stance or idea. It just is a characteristic.

So yes, that would make you qualify as a bigot:

"Bigotry is the state of mind of a "bigot," a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one who exhibits intolerance and animosity toward members of a group.[1] Bigotry may be directed towards those of a differing sex or sexual orientation, race, ethnicity, nationality, region, language, religious or spiritual belief, political alignment, age, economic status or medical disability. Bigotry is sometimes developed into an ideology or world view."
See?

Nah. It's just more gay agenda, trying to make everyone bow down to their way of doing things.
Wait, what? Bow down to "their way of doing things"? What do they make you do then? I don't believe anyone is asking you to bend over, pun intended.

And how exactly are you not trying to make THEM do things, or NOT do things based on YOUR religious views?

And how is them asking the freedom to things among themselves with consent from one another (like heterosexuals) and being treated as you would treat any other person bad? How does that at all impact you?

That Traak, not only makes you a bigot, but also a huge hypocrite.
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Old 2012-03-29, 08:20 AM   [Ignore Me] #84
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Re: Pageant contestant disqualified over strange circumstances.


Originally Posted by Traak View Post
Another homosexual trying to make the world bow down to his wishes. What's next? Having sex with children, claiming that you are really a child trapped in an adult's body?
Traak, this post makes you a bigot.
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Old 2012-03-29, 08:40 AM   [Ignore Me] #85
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Re: Pageant contestant disqualified over strange circumstances.


Originally Posted by TheSHiFT View Post
Just to nit pick: gender is social, sex is biological.
It's about time somebody got it right.

+1 for you, Shift.
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Old 2012-03-29, 08:51 AM   [Ignore Me] #86
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Re: Pageant contestant disqualified over strange circumstances.


Originally Posted by Figment View Post
What? Because you JUDGE a person for being homosexual, there's no such thing as agreeing with it because it's not a choice or political stance or idea. It just is a characteristic.
You need to quit making up things to gleefully dance about and accuse me of.

I don't judge anybody. The Bible lists homosexuality as a sin. There's no such thing as agreeing with it because it is not a choice? Every homosexual I have talked to has told me it was a choice. Two told me it was a choice they wouldn't wish on anybody. It is not "just a characteristic" anymore than pedophilia is "just a characteristic."

Originally Posted by Figment View Post
Wait, what? Bow down to "their way of doing things"? What do they make you do then? I don't believe anyone is asking you to bend over, pun intended.
What do they try to do, societally? Force everyone to agree that they are normal, it is okay, it is an in-born trait, etc. etc. Then invade activities that are venues for normal human women who were born female and then shriek and holler when they get rejected. As I said, it's America. They can do this. And others can oppose them. But opposing them doesn't make a person a bigot anymore than a homosexual advancing his cause is a bigot.

Originally Posted by Figment View Post
And how exactly are you not trying to make THEM do things, or NOT do things based on YOUR religious views?
I'm not trying to make them do anything. I'm also not advocating women enter contests for drag queens and then shriek and holler about how they were mistreated when they get disqualified for being women.

Originally Posted by Figment View Post
And how is them asking the freedom to things among themselves with consent from one another (like heterosexuals) and being treated as you would treat any other person bad? How does that at all impact you?
It doesn't impact me directly. Neither does it impact me directly if people engage in pistol duels, mutual suicide pacts, or get together in a big cult that commits suicide. But it's still sin. And sin poisons a society and the practitioners of it. But it doesn't stay confined, usually to the practitioners thereof. Witness the Mary-worshiping pseudo-Christian homosexual pedophile cult known as many Catholic churches. They have found that many boys molested by homosexual men grow up to become homosexuals. If it was such an "inborn trait" why is it so concentrated in those who have been raped as children?

Homosexuality is a sin. They claim it isn't. Whatever. We both have our views. But, me not agreeing with them that it is right doesn't make me wrong. The Bible says it's a sin, and I oppose it, just like I oppose theft, suicide, prostitution and many other things. I don't have to hate you to not agree with your lifestyle. Jesus instructs us to owe no man anything but to love him. We love the sinner, but we are not in any wise required to approve of, wink at, or pretend that their sin does not exist.

I know the homosexual front uses intimidation tactics, such as labeling everyone who doesn't agree with them as homophobic, but that is like labeling anyone who notices faults among **** as being a Nazi. Sin isn't bad because God found all the fun stuff and put a fence around it and said "You can't do that." It's bad because it kills you, spiritually, and if not repented of, eternally.

I'm not going to say sin is right just to get someone to say "Oh, he's one of us. He toes the line the activists have drawn."

I have had homosexual friends who knew that I believe it was a sin. They didn't hate me. We got along fine. I know you wouldn't want to even imagine that this is the case, because you and people like you try to paint everyone who isn't on your side as being mortal enemies. I have had friends that were gangsters, drug dealers, hired assassins, etc. Jesus didn't condemn people, and I don't either. I condemn sin in all its forms, including whatever ones I do. But I don't hate people.
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Old 2012-03-29, 08:55 AM   [Ignore Me] #87
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Re: Pageant contestant disqualified over strange circumstances.


Originally Posted by Traak View Post
Bigot? Because I don't agree with homosexuality?
You're a bigot because you're intolerant of anything which is not white Anglo-Saxon (in this case American) devout Protestant. Not just Protestant, but your specific brand of intolerant Christianity which we've all taken to calling Westboro because that's how obnoxiously inbred you are. How very Christ-like of you.

You don't disagree with homosexuality - you flat-out hate them. I've seen you, the Bible-thumping zealot, ON THIS FORUM, call them *******, ****, and queers. Shall I go through your post history and dig those posts up? You got a warning from Hamma for it. How very Christ-like of you.

You have expressed extreme disdain for ****, blacks, Europeans and Muslims. Don't even get me started on your political hatred for liberals, Democrats, or anyone who isn't a bastion of ultra-right ideals. All of this is absolutely documented in this part of the forum and can probably be found on the first page of the Political Debate board's index. How very Christ-like of you.

You aren't just a hateful, hate-mongering intolerant bigot. You are a very poor representation of Christianity and Jesus. You pervert the Christian faith and make a very poor showing of it. You are a vile, twisted, evil, disgusting, despicable human being, a loathesome little boy filled with hate, fear, and xenophobia. I suspect you've been brainwashed, in fact I'd like to believe it because frankly, I've never seen a mindless zealot of your magnitude before. It's entirely tragic that people here have judged Christianity based on your diseased, backwards, hateful spewings. Hopefully the people reading the utter garbage that you parrot have friends who are better examples than you are.
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Old 2012-03-29, 08:58 AM   [Ignore Me] #88
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Re: Pageant contestant disqualified over strange circumstances.


...Traak. Just no. Juuust. No.
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Old 2012-03-29, 10:01 AM   [Ignore Me] #89
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Re: Pageant contestant disqualified over strange circumstances.


Originally Posted by Traak View Post
Every homosexual I have talked to has told me it was a choice.
LOL WHAT? Where do you find these people? Because I've never heard that from any of my friends. They make a choice to be open about it, but they don't have a switch inside them that they can just flick on to be straight. You are an ignorant bigot.
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Old 2012-03-29, 10:05 AM   [Ignore Me] #90
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Re: Pageant contestant disqualified over strange circumstances.


I'd probably hit it
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