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Old 2012-10-15, 03:05 PM   [Ignore Me] #16
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Re: I think the biggest problem I have with Planetside 2 is map design.


Originally Posted by EVILoHOMER View Post
If they get the NC and Vanu to attack each other by having major roads that go east and west rather than all north towards the TR then the island will be acceptable. That and fog on Esamir are small fixes, I'm sure they have have tools like what you get in Cry Engine 2/3 where you can just do that in 2 mins.
Originally Posted by EVILoHOMER View Post
I'm hoping Amerish will be a more traditional Planetside type map... I'm hoping it'll just be Amerish lol. However at some point I really would like Urban warfare, just as long as they get rid of FF for it lol.
Well again, look at figure five on my diagram here, specifically the bottom square:


It's Esamir!
Esamir's unbalanced layout works for an "Edge Continent", an island where two Factions have direct Warpgate access while the third Gate leads to another, equally contestable map.

Indar, being relatively balanced (slight advantage to the North, but minimal) to be battled over from three sides, would make a perfect "Central Continent," but only if Continents Three and Four were laid out like Esamir and we got Sanctuaries as well...

Originally Posted by EVILoHOMER View Post
We still don't have any urban warfare though, it's something we all wanted in Planetside, Core Combat wasn't the answer but the zip lines were fun. I was expecting some ruined cities or something but no nothing......
Indeed, I don't really see how Humanity could survive on Auraxis without any substantial housing...

Esamir and Northern Indar get a pass for being deserts, but still!
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Old 2012-10-15, 05:54 PM   [Ignore Me] #17
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Re: I think the biggest problem I have with Planetside 2 is map design.


Originally Posted by FortySe7en View Post
believe you meant footholds. Footholds, towers, same thing. They just need less of them, not get rid of them. And anyone who played planetside 1 for more than 30 minutes knows that a sanctuary is just same place for outfits to fight with themselves over where to go next while taking 2 hours to load up a galaxy. They don't need it. With the recent changes to experience and how you gain resources, warpgates work perfectly fine.
I know they are planning on doing the home continent thing, which will make for some interesting intercontinental warfare. That might solve alot of the people saying we need sancs back.
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Old 2012-10-15, 08:34 PM   [Ignore Me] #18
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Re: I think the biggest problem I have with Planetside 2 is map design.


Originally Posted by Timealude View Post
I know they are planning on doing the home continent thing, which will make for some interesting intercontinental warfare. That might solve alot of the people saying we need sancs back.
Personally I don't think so, see figure one above.

We're probably going to end up with people camping their Warpgates, killing anyone stupid enough to come through.
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This is the last VIP post in this thread.   Old 2012-10-15, 10:57 PM   [Ignore Me] #19
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Re: I think the biggest problem I have with Planetside 2 is map design.


Originally Posted by EVILoHOMER View Post
You'll have a massive fight once every few hours but mostly it feels like down time and traveling hoping for your next big fight. Sadly this doesn't happen often enough and I feel like it's down to those small bases in between the big bases. A lot of the time you'll find yourself having to go back and save a point just because there is one person there. These events really spread the population out rather than focusing on the massive base battles we used to have in Planetside like all day and every day back in 2003.
Do others feel this is the case also? Looking for concise description of the problems, not a laundry list of solutions.

From the OP's post I would gather...

1) Not enough massive fights
2) Too much time doing "clean up" work of territories
3) Population is too spread out

Any other captures of the problems?
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Old 2012-10-15, 11:11 PM   [Ignore Me] #20
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Re: I think the biggest problem I have with Planetside 2 is map design.


Originally Posted by Whiteagle View Post
Personally I don't think so, see figure one above.

We're probably going to end up with people camping their Warpgates, killing anyone stupid enough to come through.
I think it would be harder to camp a warpgate once we are able to drive vehicles to the next continent. Imagine trying to camp a warpgate when an armor column come through. they could also make the warp gates go to certain continents like in ps1 before broadcast warp gates were around to help direct the fight on a global scale.

Last edited by Timealude; 2012-10-15 at 11:15 PM.
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Old 2012-10-15, 11:42 PM   [Ignore Me] #21
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Re: I think the biggest problem I have with Planetside 2 is map design.


i want a beta key ,who can give me one?
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Old 2012-10-16, 01:51 AM   [Ignore Me] #22
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Re: I think the biggest problem I have with Planetside 2 is map design.


Originally Posted by Malorn View Post
Do others feel this is the case also? Looking for concise description of the problems, not a laundry list of solutions.

From the OP's post I would gather...

1) Not enough massive fights
2) Too much time doing "clean up" work of territories
3) Population is too spread out

Any other captures of the problems?
Yeah, as Tatwi mentioned earlier, no need to make Indar exactly like 'other' conts(I mean, about the planned redesign of Indar). No need for Indar to have exactly same number of bases and outposts as Amerish, Esamir, etc...

And I saw Smedley's interview on RPS last night and thought, I'd be cool for various continents to have varying gameplay style/ battle flow.
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Old 2012-10-16, 03:35 AM   [Ignore Me] #23
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Re: I think the biggest problem I have with Planetside 2 is map design.


Originally Posted by prunes View Post
i want a beta key ,who can give me one?
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Old 2012-10-16, 04:42 AM   [Ignore Me] #24
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Re: I think the biggest problem I have with Planetside 2 is map design.


Originally Posted by Malorn View Post
Do others feel this is the case also? Looking for concise description of the problems, not a laundry list of solutions.

From the OP's post I would gather...

1) Not enough massive fights
2) Too much time doing "clean up" work of territories
3) Population is too spread out

Any other captures of the problems?
I personally wouldn't say numbers one or two are a problem...

...But then again I'm the type of person who seems to prefer going around doing "clean up" work over "massive fights."

Three isn't so much of an issue of population density as it is a lack of direction, with very few tools available right now to control the flow of the masses.

Originally Posted by cellinaire View Post
Yeah, as Tatwi mentioned earlier, no need to make Indar exactly like 'other' conts(I mean, about the planned redesign of Indar). No need for Indar to have exactly same number of bases and outposts as Amerish, Esamir, etc...

And I saw Smedley's interview on RPS last night and thought, I'd be cool for various continents to have varying gameplay style/ battle flow.
Indeed, I much prefer Indar's layout myself, but I wouldn't mind seeing how Esamir balances with two Factions competing for access to the third North-Western Warpgate...

Originally Posted by Timealude View Post
I think it would be harder to camp a warpgate once we are able to drive vehicles to the next continent. Imagine trying to camp a warpgate when an armor column come through. they could also make the warp gates go to certain continents like in ps1 before broadcast warp gates were around to help direct the fight on a global scale.
I don't know man... that really doesn't stop people from camping the current footholds, they'd just have AT-Liberators and Tanks waiting all the same...
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Old 2012-10-16, 06:45 AM   [Ignore Me] #25
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Re: I think the biggest problem I have with Planetside 2 is map design.


Problem is places can be captured by one or two people, when your forces are pushing forward and suddenly someone stealth caps behind you it isn't fun because your forces all split up. In Planetside you could capture a tower on your own but it didn't do anything, you just ignored it. Also base captures took like 10-15 mins was it? In Planetside 2 you can capture so quick and there is little visual indicator on the map telling you about this so people don't rush to defend.
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Old 2012-10-16, 08:06 AM   [Ignore Me] #26
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Re: I think the biggest problem I have with Planetside 2 is map design.


Originally Posted by Fazed View Post
Also, when NC had the top of the map it felt like that either, now you know how it feels to get attacked at dahaka and mao at the same time while you struggle to hold the crown.
It was the same in tech test when VS had the north sanc. It's a problem with how the map is segmented. The north sanc team holds half the map due to ground movement restrictions. So naturally, if you want to gain territory you attack them. The compression of the east-west fight down south is a faster back and forth... not much progress can be made or at least held for long.

I hope they get rid of static footholds and do either rotating or no footholds at all. That would help out with the static fights. I'm already getting bored with the few base fights that are always happening while the outlying bases sit as one color all the time.
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Old 2012-10-16, 12:52 PM   [Ignore Me] #27
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Re: I think the biggest problem I have with Planetside 2 is map design.


Ill be honest guys, for those that played PS1, I liked the linked base set up better then the hex systems. In PS1 you couldnt hack a base unless you had a link to it. Now all you need is a corner of a link to touch. I know PS2 is not PS1 but some concepts shouldnt be changed, this is just my opinion. I also dont like that you cant even see if the base is being hacked, you check your map, its purple, check it a second later and boom its now red. Granted I do get a flash on the screen that says you have lost this base or that base, but in the middle of a fight im really not paying attention. We need a countdown system that shows on the map like back in the day. I understand they want to change some things to make PS2 more modern and up date, but alot of things in PS1 should be carried over and dont need to be changed they worked fine, made it fun. Just dont bring back those damn walking robots, thats all I ask.

And one quick question, whats the use in having a generator in the base if you can still get gear. We blew the gen and the elevators still worked, and we could still spawn vehicles on hacked terminals. I think if the gen is blown all power to anything that requires power should be useless.
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Old 2012-10-16, 03:53 PM   [Ignore Me] #28
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Re: I think the biggest problem I have with Planetside 2 is map design.


Originally Posted by EVILoHOMER View Post
Problem is places can be captured by one or two people, when your forces are pushing forward and suddenly someone stealth caps behind you it isn't fun because your forces all split up. In Planetside you could capture a tower on your own but it didn't do anything, you just ignored it. Also base captures took like 10-15 mins was it? In Planetside 2 you can capture so quick and there is little visual indicator on the map telling you about this so people don't rush to defend.
This isn't so much a problem with the capture mechanics as it is an issue of people only being rewarded for taking Territory, not defending it.

Flanking is one of the cornerstones of military tactics, and putting restrictions on it just because you don't want to bother with a rear guard is kind of extream...

...Of course, no one WANTS to rear guard anyways, because they only why you'll get anything is if an enemy starts flipping a point...

I noticed this problem a lot earlier, however, and came up with a solution.

Originally Posted by Calisai View Post
It was the same in tech test when VS had the north sanc. It's a problem with how the map is segmented. The north sanc team holds half the map due to ground movement restrictions. So naturally, if you want to gain territory you attack them. The compression of the east-west fight down south is a faster back and forth... not much progress can be made or at least held for long.

I hope they get rid of static footholds and do either rotating or no footholds at all. That would help out with the static fights. I'm already getting bored with the few base fights that are always happening while the outlying bases sit as one color all the time.
Yeah... this is why I'm rather worried about having only three Continents at launch with any of the current suggested map layouts...



Indar is honestly pretty well balanced as a "three-way" map, the large Hexes on the outer edges North of the central ridge may give the impression that the North Warpgate has the advantage, but they are actually there to allow as quick of access to the Northern Facilities as there more crowded Southern counterparts.
Here's a rough map of Indar I've poorly colored to show what each Warpgates' "Turf" should be, based on single Hex adjacency from the nearest Facilities.



As you can see, the only real issue in the south is the zebra-striped Regent Rock Garrison, which directly connects Peris and Tawrich...

Still, even balanced... it's a three-way map...
If it was the central Continent in figure five of my first diagram it'd be fine, but as a standalone map such balance leads to stagnation.

If my Second Life Military Community experience has taught me anything, it's that stagnation equal DEATH for a game like this!

Originally Posted by Qwan View Post
Ill be honest guys, for those that played PS1, I liked the linked base set up better then the hex systems. In PS1 you couldnt hack a base unless you had a link to it. Now all you need is a corner of a link to touch. I know PS2 is not PS1 but some concepts shouldnt be changed, this is just my opinion. I also dont like that you cant even see if the base is being hacked, you check your map, its purple, check it a second later and boom its now red. Granted I do get a flash on the screen that says you have lost this base or that base, but in the middle of a fight im really not paying attention. We need a countdown system that shows on the map like back in the day.
Well if you really pay attention to the info box that pops up when you hover over a Hex, you can kind of divine what's going on with the four barely informative "statuses" it gives you.
For instance, "No Activity" indicates that no members of another Faction are in that Hex... or at least none have been spotted by anything, not really sure which is the case...

"Enemies Detected" informs you that, yes, someone from another faction is in the Hex in question.

Not really sure what the difference is between "Base Infiltrated" and "Base Compromised" is...
I think the first indicates that they've started to flip a point, while the second indicates that they've blown up a Generator or something...

But yeah, a more informative map interface would be much appreciated by info junkies like me...

Originally Posted by Qwan View Post
Just dont bring back those damn walking robots, thats all I ask.
But... but...


Originally Posted by Qwan View Post
And one quick question, whats the use in having a generator in the base if you can still get gear. We blew the gen and the elevators still worked, and we could still spawn vehicles on hacked terminals. I think if the gen is blown all power to anything that requires power should be useless.
I think they've tied any Generator directly to a single purpose instead of generally powering everything.

This way it's easier to indicate whats responsible for want while eliminating the arduous task of ANT runs...
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Old 2012-10-16, 03:59 PM   [Ignore Me] #29
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Re: I think the biggest problem I have with Planetside 2 is map design.


Originally Posted by EVILoHOMER View Post
After like a 12 hour play session today there has been lots of highs and lows, it feels very much like Planetside after the population left. You'll have a massive fight once every few hours but mostly it feels like down time and traveling hoping for your next big fight. Sadly this doesn't happen often enough and I feel like it's down to those small bases in between the big bases. A lot of the time you'll find yourself having to go back and save a point just because there is one person there. These events really spread the population out rather than focusing on the massive base battles we used to have in Planetside like all day and every day back in 2003.

I play TR so I'm not sure what the NC and Vanu are experiencing, however I reckon they're having a vastly different experience as on Indar they only have one front line, where we have two. I'm getting really fed up of seeing the TR being attacked by both NC and Vanu but they by and large leave each other alone. Really this is down to how the map encourages people to just go north and south rather than east and west. We even see this as the TR where all the major paths lead south where you cannot find anything going across.


All I have to say about Esamir is I tried going there once, it was like Silent Hill with all the fog so I have never been back........

Edit: I do have to say the massive TR tank rush earlier was amazing.
Dude the point of planetside 2 is to have simulated war not battles. Downtime, and travel logistics are a necessity. Indar was made to cater to faster battles in comparison to the original. Esamir was made like the arctic tundra specifically to cater towards more spread out battles. Maybe Amerish will better suit your tastes.
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Old 2012-10-18, 04:42 AM   [Ignore Me] #30
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Re: I think the biggest problem I have with Planetside 2 is map design.


Originally Posted by fvdham View Post
PlanetSide 1 did not need lock out timers.
Its ridiculous PlanetSide 2 would need it.
But Planetside 2 is ridiculous.

The world design the contenants and the bases are a fail.
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