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Old 2012-07-11, 11:23 AM   [Ignore Me] #1
Kurtz
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Live Streams with Commentators In Lieu of ESports


There has been a lot of debate about opening up PS2 to ESports. By definition ESports are closed matches between two clans or outfits on an instanced servers where comps(classes) are known prior to the match and matched closely by competing teams.

It is important to note that ESports wasn't introduced into WoW until after arenas were entered into the game. At one point in beta and up until slightly after the games release, WoW was open world PVP. And it was fucking amazing. You could fight the other faction anywhere. After a few massive pvp fights in selected areas slowed and crashed servers instanced pvp was born which opened the door for ESports in WoW.

Planetside 2 by contrast is a massive open world that currently has no instanced servers. The idea is to have 2000 people fight anywhere they want on the server, even if it means all at one place at one time.

If SOE can pull this off (where Blizzard couldn't) then there we are looking at massive scale warfare in an open environment that has never before been seen. There is absolutely no reason to instance any of it. Nor is there any reason to remove the vehicles or close off any part of the population for a Clan Vs. Clan "match".

What is the draw to ESports? I think everyone likes the idea of being E-famous - or being shout casted or streamed live or whatever you want to call it. Folks like the idea of sitting at home watching other teams strategies and getting on social media and chatting about a current match in progress on IRC or whatever.

The two most exillerating gaming experiences I ever had was:
1. playing Planetside 1 before the continent population caps, when SOE broke the world record for most players on a single FPS server a
2. My team was being shoutcasted in a Quarter Finals Cal Match for BF2.

I honestly feel that both of these great experiences can be combined in PS2.

My solution is rather than create instances of certain areas for closed clan v clan matches, SOE just shoutcasts Planetside in all its glory. If SOE could hire someone like TotalBiscuit to stream Planetside one night a week he could give essentially a play by play of what is going on inside the game at that given moment and even get in there and film the action much like at E3 but with a devoted camera that can be moved.

Multiple cameras could be placed at different locations and a producer could cut between cameras while a commentator or three (one for each faction) make comments.

Something like a tech plant battle could be covered in depth to who has it, who is holding it and who is trying to take it (outfit names would be used as well as individual players). The cast would cover one server a week, but could cover the global war.

Obviously this would draw huge crowds to any area being casted at any given time, so the trick is to keep moving the conversation between the global conflict, to the continental conflicts to the actual base battles. Moving around quickly would be key, cutting back and forth as the action dictates.

This would be very easy to achieve but would be considered a technical feat by the industry as SOE would be a first to do this inside a Massive open world MMO. This feature would get publicity that could be used as marketing. These shout casts could be posted on the PS2 website daily as well as social media outlets, enticing new players to join the game.

Of course, anyone watching from home could get social about what they're watching either on the forums, on twitter or on IRC. All wins for SOE.

This solution combines the best of both worlds. Everyone has a chance to be known or have some ridiculous stunt or kill streak witnessed by viewers and we don't have to instance any part of the game, create infy only continents or split populations.

Thoughts?
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Old 2012-07-11, 11:48 AM   [Ignore Me] #2
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Re: Live Streams with Commentators In Lieu of ESports


Originally Posted by Kurtz View Post
My solution is rather than create instances of certain areas for closed clan v clan matches, SOE just shoutcasts Planetside in all its glory. If SOE could hire someone like TotalBiscuit to stream Planetside one night a week he could give essentially a play by play of what is going on inside the game at that given moment and even get in there and film the action much like at E3 but with a devoted camera that can be moved.
They could do this with Events like they just had on PS1 Saturday. "The Return to Old Oshur". It didn't take all day but in like 6 hours TR had the Map all red. That way they get the Streams they need with a lot of players in one area, doing team work.
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Old 2012-07-11, 11:49 AM   [Ignore Me] #3
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Re: Live Streams with Commentators In Lieu of ESports


i am not into so called E Sports but I do know SOE eventually wants PS2 to be available to it.

I can for see a new version of outfit wars from PS1 making a return as a E-sports mode.
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Old 2012-07-11, 11:50 AM   [Ignore Me] #4
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Re: Live Streams with Commentators In Lieu of ESports


I've also been thinking this is a more realistic approach rather than true esports.

Think about it as war correspondent covering a battle. However is this enough to capture the attention of players? Why would you want to spend time watching it? Would you watch this over just playing it? With esports you watch top teams play the game at its highest level, and most matches don't last more than an hour (depending on the game). You learn from them, and awe at their awesomeness.
But with this, you could be watching for longer, since there is no clear end point. And instead of watching pros, it could simply be your friends and outfit members, at which point you want to log in and play with them, or against whoever is being covered. Again, whats going to make people want to watch over playing the game?

Maybe as an after battle report. Something that summarizes what happened, but after the fact. I think there will be problems with a live stream thats following the battle as it happens. Unless people are both playing and watching the live stream simultaneous...I could see a demand for that.
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Old 2012-07-11, 12:01 PM   [Ignore Me] #5
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Re: Live Streams with Commentators In Lieu of ESports


Good post. I agree, would love to see it.
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Old 2012-07-11, 12:10 PM   [Ignore Me] #6
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Re: Live Streams with Commentators In Lieu of ESports


I like the idea of PlanetSide having Starship Troopers style media reports.
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Old 2012-07-11, 12:15 PM   [Ignore Me] #7
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Re: Live Streams with Commentators In Lieu of ESports


Like a news network covering major battles.
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Old 2012-07-11, 12:20 PM   [Ignore Me] #8
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Re: Live Streams with Commentators In Lieu of ESports


Live streaming doesn't make it e-sports, that would still be part of the main game. Isn't it one of the main requirements of e-sports that weapons and certs must be standardized for all competitors? You need an instance to do that, it can not be done in the main game. And e-sports often prefer infantry only and no vehicles. That can't be done in the main game either.

Having a separate e-sports division and instances does not do anything to change the main game's focus on 2000 players. People act like if there are instances that no one will ever play the main game. I doubt that there is anything to worry about, but I propose a solution that might ease your minds:

Make it so that you can only open the e-sports instance when it is an official match that counts. This way, the only way people can practice for the e-sports would be by playing in the main game world and the ultimate result would be that, worst case scenario, a few players spend 4-5 hours per week in official matches.

Last edited by Stardouser; 2012-07-11 at 12:22 PM.
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Old 2012-07-11, 01:06 PM   [Ignore Me] #9
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Re: Live Streams with Commentators In Lieu of ESports


An e-sports tuned server, one specifically for e-sports with all the restrictions and balancing of weapons and such, I'd support. Shouldn't have anything to do with regular servers though.

Live streams with commentators for non-esports server? Yes please! I'd imagine the player community will provide this.
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Old 2012-07-11, 01:15 PM   [Ignore Me] #10
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Re: Live Streams with Commentators In Lieu of ESports


Originally Posted by OutlawDr View Post
I've also been thinking this is a more realistic approach rather than true esports.

Think about it as war correspondent covering a battle. However is this enough to capture the attention of players? Why would you want to spend time watching it? Would you watch this over just playing it? With esports you watch top teams play the game at its highest level, and most matches don't last more than an hour (depending on the game). You learn from them, and awe at their awesomeness.
But with this, you could be watching for longer, since there is no clear end point. And instead of watching pros, it could simply be your friends and outfit members, at which point you want to log in and play with them, or against whoever is being covered. Again, whats going to make people want to watch over playing the game?

Maybe as an after battle report. Something that summarizes what happened, but after the fact. I think there will be problems with a live stream thats following the battle as it happens. Unless people are both playing and watching the live stream simultaneous...I could see a demand for that.
There are many reasons I would want to watch
  1. I am at work and want to see whats going on on my IPad app.
  2. I am already playing but want to see what the battle on Esamir is progressing and I am using my IPad app with the global webcast to keep tabs on the global battle while focusing on the battle I am in.
  3. I want to see tactics developed by outfits on other servers.

Originally Posted by Baneblade View Post
I like the idea of PlanetSide having Starship Troopers style media reports.
Exactly.

Originally Posted by Stardouser View Post
Live streaming doesn't make it e-sports, that would still be part of the main game. Isn't it one of the main requirements of e-sports that weapons and certs must be standardized for all competitors? You need an instance to do that, it can not be done in the main game. And e-sports often prefer infantry only and no vehicles. That can't be done in the main game either.

Having a separate e-sports division and instances does not do anything to change the main game's focus on 2000 players. People act like if there are instances that no one will ever play the main game. I doubt that there is anything to worry about, but I propose a solution that might ease your minds:

Make it so that you can only open the e-sports instance when it is an official match that counts. This way, the only way people can practice for the e-sports would be by playing in the main game world and the ultimate result would be that, worst case scenario, a few players spend 4-5 hours per week in official matches.
Yes, in ESports the weapons or loadouts are often standardized for each team, this is often called comps. Infantry only is preferred in some. As you point out, neither of these can be offered by the game in its current state. So while some may want ESports teams to come to PS2, the lack of these tools could mean ESports teams will not want to come to PS2. Most teams like to practice on their own servers when they want to perfect their strats.

It's like telling a pro team they'll have to start practicing on a pub. No one from outside will come here for that.

What I'm proposing is kind of like a happy medium that allows anyone at any time to be in the spotlight.

PS1 was like a big huge competitive match 24/7. Tactics were built around the zerg. Using the open world as a variable in the strategy and getting on the forums to brag about your conquests was why the game was the best "pub" ever made. I'm just suggesting we take that part of PS1 to the next level.
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Old 2012-07-11, 01:23 PM   [Ignore Me] #11
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Re: Live Streams with Commentators In Lieu of ESports


Originally Posted by Kurtz View Post
Yes, in ESports the weapons or loadouts are often standardized for each team, this is often called comps. Infantry only is preferred in some. As you point out, neither of these can be offered by the game in its current state. So while some may want ESports teams to come to PS2, the lack of these tools could mean ESports teams will not want to come to PS2. Most teams like to practice on their own servers when they want to perfect their strats.

It's like telling a pro team they'll have to start practicing on a pub. No one from outside will come here for that.

What I'm proposing is kind of like a happy medium that allows anyone at any time to be in the spotlight.

PS1 was like a big huge competitive match 24/7. Tactics were built around the zerg. Using the open world as a variable in the strategy and getting on the forums to brag about your conquests was why the game was the best "pub" ever made. I'm just suggesting we take that part of PS1 to the next level.

I definitely want what you are asking for, and I think they should give in-game news journalists some tools to help them do this (cue Malorn saying no based on the journalists cheating).

I just don't think this constitutes e-sports. I mean, e-sports does let successful people get the spotlight, and so does your idea, but your idea does not allow, for example, a 10 team league of 8 players each to battle it out in organized matches over a couple months with 2-3 official matches per week;which are highly highly competitive and the people who are fighting are specifically chosen and registered.

So, I definitely want your idea to be implemented, it just doesn't answer the e-sports issue. Ultimately your fear is that people are going to spend all their time playing on instances and not the main game, right? I don't think that's going to happen for many many reasons and even if it did, what is the harm as long as you can still find at least one properly populated 2000 player server?
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Old 2012-07-11, 03:25 PM   [Ignore Me] #12
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Re: Live Streams with Commentators In Lieu of ESports


First, I'd say that the idea of esports and PS2 is a very tricky subject.

I think Kurtz's idea is a good compromise. But it is not true esports. And I'm not convinced that true esports will ever work or become popular in MMOs (not just PS2).

The MMO that could have been the best fit for esports was Warhammer Online in my opinion. The game was designed as a true no-instance open world MMO, but from the start had instance-based team vs team matches.

There were level requirements for the different matches to keep the playing field somewhat (somewhat) even.

What ended up happening was that people would mostly only play in the open world while they were waiting in queue for an instanced match. So the open world objectives were paid little attention, mainly becaused the instanced match play provided the most XP gains.

But even in an MMO that had esports type gameplay build in from the start, I've never heard of any esports teams or broadcasting of Warhammer Online. I could be wrong, but even if so it never became that popular.

So basically I don't see how true esports and MMOs can co-habitate well together. That being said, I think the OP's idea is a decent compromise.
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Old 2012-07-11, 03:38 PM   [Ignore Me] #13
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Re: Live Streams with Commentators In Lieu of ESports


Originally Posted by QuantumMechanic View Post
The MMO that could have been the best fit for esports was Warhammer Online in my opinion. The game was designed as a true no-instance open world MMO, but from the start had instance-based team vs team matches.
Warhammer Online made a big mistake putting in those instance-based empire vs empire matches imo. The game was supposed to center around open-world PvP with open-world PvE around it all. And they just let people join instanced death matches? WTF?
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Old 2012-07-11, 03:38 PM   [Ignore Me] #14
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Re: Live Streams with Commentators In Lieu of ESports


Originally Posted by Baneblade View Post
I like the idea of PlanetSide having Starship Troopers style media reports.
"Would you like to know more?"

Personally, I don't care about E-Sports.

However if it will help SOE $upport PS2 longer I think E-Sports can come later in PS2 and maybe even spawn sub-servers dedicated to regions for E-sports which can be rented for a fee by those who wish to participate. Who knows maybe they will add mini-contenents/arenas with E-sports in mind as well. Just because they can do 2,000 people on 64sqkm does not mean they have to.

It seems they made the engine scale able to adjust as needed.

With PS2 I see nearly endless combinations and possibilities of additional content, play modes, maps, locations, vehicles, weapons, modifications, and other game types using this engine.

How cool would it be to see a WW2 game with 2,000 people fighting it out in the hedge rows of the French country side or a WW3 scenerio as a prequel leading up to PS history or PS taking us to completely new worlds...
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Old 2012-07-11, 03:49 PM   [Ignore Me] #15
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Re: Live Streams with Commentators In Lieu of ESports


Originally Posted by Kurtz View Post
It is important to note that ESports wasn't introduced into WoW until after arenas were entered into the game. At one point in beta and up until slightly after the games release, WoW was open world PVP. And it was fucking amazing. You could fight the other faction anywhere.
As someone who hasn't played WOW since early 2005, I had no idea they took that out. That's madness. The only really dynamic part of the game was PVP, and my only interesting memory trying to sneak through enemy territory or fleeing from high-level gankers.
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