Higby on XP Changes

[MrBloodworth]

Originally Posted by VaderShake

Spawn Camping in PS2 ussually means the team that keeps spawning and running into bullets, Liberators, or tank shells at the door has already lost the facility or the ability to retake the facility from the spawn room. So news flash...time to move to a different strategy. It's really that simple...no matter what argument anyone wants to make against it.

No. Not fucking news flash.

The base layout is why its happening. There was likely no fight there to begin with. We play internet bullets to fight others, not move away from them when they show up, constantly. If there is no chance of fighting back, this is not a game. With out the possibility of a comeback, the design is flawed. All defenses are also flawed in that defenders have to traverse a more well equipped force, and do TWICE the effort to even convert a point back.

[Calisai]

Originally Posted by Qwan

2. Keep the spawn boxes and have small SCU for each outpost and when it goes down, the enemy can no longer spawn there.

They had SCU's in all outposts in Tech test. It was horrible. Granted they didn't have the timed destruction like they do now (they were destroyed by damage).

What happened was the fights would be stopped before they even began. The SCU would drop before the defenders even knew they needed to defend it. It basically it was a game of ghosting and blitzkriegs.... going through and capping bases with no real fighting.

Thats why they put all the shield / generators / SCU generator / SCU in main bases... but in the smaller outposts, they don't have the room to have all that.

"Spawn camping" (ie, resource denial... deny reinforcements) is inevitable... the thing you can change is how the defensive players feel about it... do they have a chance to push out? (ie, multiple exits, tunnels, visible sight lines to know if they should even try...) or are they just getting insta-gibbed as soon as they exit the doorway. That's the problem... and hopefully will be alleviated by tunnels and new spawn designs.

[MrBloodworth]

+ 1 to Calisai as well.

[Qwan]

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

No. Not fucking news flash.

The base layout is why its happening. There was likely no fight there to begin with. We play internet bullets to fight others, not move away from them when they show up, constantly. If there is no chance of fighting back, this is not a game. With out the possibility of a comeback, the design is flawed. All defenses are also flawed in that defenders have to traverse a more well equipped force, and do TWICE the effort to even convert a point back.

Hold up now, there is a chance to come back, its just not going to happen from that spot, many time in my outfit we got camped in and would relocate quickly, and come back with vehicles and support. But lately we have stopped doing that because of no xp for defending bases, we sometimes let it flip, then take it back.

Hello my name is Qwan and Im a xp/cert addict.......

Sometimes I think there really is no fix to this problem (for those that put it in this catagory), its just simple common sence, if the zerg is outside of your base and you dont have the numbers, you might just have to let it go (just take as many of those bastards with you as you can). Spawning at this base just feeds the zerg, and your deked out max or heavy assault weapon aint gonna make a difference. I say just play smarter, and if I was Higby or any of the other guys working on this game, I would put this at the bottom of things to take care of.

[MrBloodworth]

Who makes a base that you have to abandon to defend?

EDIT: I fear I am dragging this off topic. My apologies, but I think its connected.

EDIT 2: Its not a "Play smarter" issue.

[VaderShake]

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

Who makes a base that you have to abandon to defend?

EDIT: I fear I am dragging this off topic. My apologies, but I think its connected.

EDIT 2: Its not a "Play smarter" issue.

MrB, I was not commenting on how defensible a base is or is not, but if your to the point of being spawn camped and there is no one there to stop the other team from spawn camping you....well...it's over try something else, spawn somewhere else organize and come back to take what you have lost, the map is large enough to have multiple options other than spawning and running into a hail of bullets over and over and over again.

I find this conversaiton interesting esspecially since everyone is waiting for continent locks and our main goal now is forcing people into their warp gate so they can be camped or be forced to go to another continent. That's what we all want to do right, dominate the larger map and not letting the other teams get out of their bases.

Unless of course I'm missing something???

[Baneblade]

I have no pity for those being spawn camped. The first time, you die. The second time you chose to die via camp.

[Ghoest9]

Originally Posted by Baneblade

I have no pity for those being spawn camped. The first time, you die. The second time you chose to die via camp.

This.

Its fine to change spawn points as a way to increase defensibility of the whole base.

And I get putting a ledge over the door because 1 Lib can camp a small base too easily.

But I have no sympathy for dummies who let themselves be farmed because they are too stupid to realize they have lost.

[Neutral Calypso]

I had heard that defenders get double exp for kills when defending a base.

That sounds like incentive to defend and not let it flip to me.

[Chewy]

Originally Posted by Neutral Calypso

I had heard that defenders get double exp for kills when defending a base.

That sounds like incentive to defend and not let it flip to me.

It's 15%. It takes so much work for a defender to get the same amount of of XP as a base cap that it just isn't worth defending on a XP basis. The reason I have so many base defendings (click the stat sig to see) is because I often don't play for XP but for support. If I was a XP whore, my BR would be doubled easy by now. But Im not, I am a support player that is driven by making those around me better than I am. I even think that if I come in first in competitive games that I should have done more for the team (even if my team wins).

Plus defending a base to stop a cont cap or stop a push are one of the biggest "Fuck You!"s that one can do. Waterson is known for Bio-lab farms for this reason.

[Boomzor]

There is a 15% bonus for all xp generating actions while defending.
To compensate for the capture bonus xp of a facility (1000 xp) you need to score 67 kills or the equivalent amount other xp generating actions.
Sadly, most fights on the defense doesn't last nearly long enough to provide the opportunity to get to those numbers, at least not without some sort of cheese tactics.

THAT is what we're after. Good long fights down to the bitter fucking end.
Currently it's just a huge game of tag around the continents cause the defenders get the fuck out of dodge the minute significant number of attackers show up. Or get spawned camp.
Neither is very much fun.

Sure, the spawn camping for profit will be reduced with dynamic xp, but we're still not getting the epic fights.

[Shamrock]

Time and time again im sitting on a point 1/6 waiting for someone else to come along while I look at a bunch of people camping the outpost spawn that could be speeding up the timer.

[Ghoest9]

Originally Posted by Boomzor

There is a 15% bonus for all xp generating actions while defending.
To compensate for the capture bonus xp of a facility (1000 xp) you need to score 67 kills or the equivalent amount other xp generating actions.
Sadly, most fights on the defense doesn't last nearly long enough to provide the opportunity to get to those numbers, at least not without some sort of cheese tactics.

THAT is what we're after. Good long fights down to the bitter fucking end.
Currently it's just a huge game of tag around the continents cause the defenders get the fuck out of dodge the minute significant number of attackers show up. Or get spawned camp.
Neither is very much fun.

Sure, the spawn camping for profit will be reduced with dynamic xp, but we're still not getting the epic fights.

Also this promotes the wandering capture zerg because all the under average players would never earn that much in defense bonuses even in a long fight.

[Babyfark McGeez]

Originally Posted by VaderShake

...

Unless of course I'm missing something???

You are.

As alot of other people you seem to have mistaken our complaints about the lameness of spawn camping being the main part in taking a base with us complaining about being spawncamped ourselves.

I can shoot HE shells at a door and rack up kills and still feel that this is an unnecessary cheap and boring way to exercise an attack. Spawning at another facility would not be helpful in that case.

[VaderShake]

Originally Posted by Babyfark McGeez

You are.

As alot of other people you seem to have mistaken our complaints about the lameness of spawn camping being the main part in taking a base with us complaining about being spawncamped ourselves.

I can shoot HE shells at a door and rack up kills and still feel that this is an unnecessary cheap and boring way to exercise an attack. Spawning at another facility would not be helpful in that case.

You are quoting me out of context.

The game allows you to shoot HE shells at the door are part of your attack to cut off reinforcments through the spawn room. it's up to the other team to kill you and your tank to prevent that from happening regardless if the base defense system is balanced or not. People are just playing in the sandbox they are given and it's up to everyone to figure out how to counter the spawn camping until the game is changed or modified which they already said they were going to do.......so why continue to beat a dead horse, try something different until it's changed and move along. We know the issues with PS2 (negative and although no one really discusses it here the positive as well) and some of it's systems but really the game has a much much larger upside for those who will step back and look at thte big picture. Again too many babies being thrown out with the bathwater...