Account wide progression instead of per character. - Page 2

Highwind · 2011-07-31, 11:54 PM

The way I envision the skill trees, which might be all wrong due to lack of info, I could see there being a type of "general" tab/tree/window that could be more or less fundamental upgrades along the lines of Battle Ranks. I would like the idea that some of the "general" skills be made account wide, this would kind of be like having a "new game+" feature. If you're BR20+ and you have all of your general skills learned and you are working on your highly specialized Reaver skills or whatever, I could see sharing the base part of your tree with an alt being something that would really encourage extra Planetside2 play.

Briefly something else that got touched on a little is empire population distribution and friend separation. I think this is a big concern, because on day one 1000s of players are going to open the game, randomly pick their server (maybe based on time zones / ping), and then randomly pick their side. They are going to be locked into these choices for what should be forever (minus deleting) all without playing the game for even 30 minutes, what are the odds that everyone picked 33% TR, 33% NC and 33% VS on every server? What kind of "recommend" server system or server/faction swapping will be in place to help build fair teams with the players have little choice to influence it themselves since they are locked into their mains? Anyone that is all kinda off topic, and up in the air until we hear more.

CutterJohn · 2011-08-01, 12:43 AM

Originally Posted by Sirisian

I'm not sure if anyone else has these "problems" when trying to coordinate a night of gaming but being locked into a faction really complicates things especially in an MMO where you want to play with friends.

Not sure about now, but at one time, wow had 225+ servers. It was virtually guaranteed that, if you met someone online or irl, you would not play the same server as them, and even then there were 50/50 odds that they played on your side.

So a roughly 1 in 500 chance of being able to play on with some random person you meet.

I recall meeting someone who played on my server once. And he was on the other side.

In PS, i met more than a few people who played the other factions. I'd have to make a brand new character with none of the stuff I'd earned, and wait out timers, which was the most hamfisted possible solution to the issue of empire hoppers.

PS won't be that bad, of course, as it will be nowhere near as popular, but it will still be an annoying issue. I don't see how that limitation is worth reinforcing some meaningless(to me at least) RP. I guess people have different priorities.

Azren · 2011-08-01, 01:55 AM

especially because you will most likeley be able to change empires later, this is a bad idea. How would you like this scenario:

You start playing as a VS, who turn out to be underpowered for some reason. You stick around and work yourself up the ladders with hard work and much effort, and finally reach CR4. A new patch comes out that make VS friggin' OP, every little kid will jump empires and join VS, including some CR5 guys, who outrule your hard earned influence. All your effort will go down the drain, just like that.

Don't forget, this is an MMO

CutterJohn · 2011-08-01, 02:50 AM

Originally Posted by Azren

Don't forget, this is an MMO

Its an MMOG. A game. Don't take it so seriously. We're here to play.

Your example is pretty unlikely. It would take some very poor dev actions and very specific timing to even occur. And its no issue anyway. So what if people listen to others? Having CR does not entitle you to any minions. Level up and try to outyell them in their cat herding attempts.

Vancha · 2011-08-01, 03:28 AM

Originally Posted by Azren

You start playing as a VS, who turn out to be underpowered for some reason. You stick around and work yourself up the ladders with hard work and much effort, and finally reach CR4. A new patch comes out that make VS friggin' OP, every little kid will jump empires and join VS, including some CR5 guys, who outrule your hard earned influence. All your effort will go down the drain, just like that.

Well apart from such a scenario meaning there's a much bigger problem than empire switching mechanics (namely, horrible balance) and the fact that there aren't command ranks in PS2, I agree that there's still no good solution for the 4th empire.

I could see a 24 hour timer working if it triggered upon logging off that character. That way you don't get people logging off at midnight, going to sleep and deciding to play a different empire the next day based on who's winning.

Edit: Though as for account-wide progression? No thanks. While I know some people completely lack any hint of empire loyalty (*cough*Cutter*cough*), seeing the same character go from NC, to TR, to VS and back to NC within a week would be silly.

Bruttal · 2011-08-01, 04:30 AM

I honestly PRAY to god that its only 1 empire per server and since theres so many certs>ranks>BR that they should let you have 1 alt Empire on a different server that is basicly a mirror of your char but different Empire

CutterJohn · 2011-08-01, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by Vancha

Well apart from such a scenario meaning there's a much bigger problem than empire switching mechanics (namely, horrible balance) and the fact that there aren't command ranks in PS2, I agree that there's still no good solution for the 4th empire.

Rule 1. Can't switch to an empire with over 36ish% population. You can still log in if that was your last played empire.
Rule 2. Switching to the underdog gives you a quality perk, like double training speed for 6/12/24 hours, or half price upgrades for a couple hours game time. Oh, and i suppose you'd need to play on that team for a couple hours to qualify for it.

There. Not only will the 4th empire not be a problem(can't switch to the overpopulated empire), people with an ill defined sense of loyalty can be your voluntary force of team balancers to immediately level out a population imbalance.

MrVicchio · 2011-08-01, 08:40 AM

I prefer you have to level each character. Discourage people from hopping to whichever side/server has the advantage.

NYRampage · 2011-08-01, 09:20 AM

I'm not sure how I feel about this... I know part of the fun is building up each character and learning along the way. Plus, many of us tend to have blood of one color. (mine being purple) If you threw me into a blue blooded BR25 CR5 character, I wouldn't know where to start. IF something like this were implemented it would have to be on different servers and you would have to have the choice of where to start.

However, I think I lean in the direction of not having this feature at all. There is something about having to have spilled your blood for your empire in order to have earned your rank.

Vancha · 2011-08-01, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

Rule 1. Can't switch to an empire with over 36ish% population. You can still log in if that was your last played empire.
Rule 2. Switching to the underdog gives you a quality perk, like double training speed for 6/12/24 hours, or half price upgrades for a couple hours game time. Oh, and i suppose you'd need to play on that team for a couple hours to qualify for it.

There. Not only will the 4th empire not be a problem(can't switch to the overpopulated empire), people with an ill defined sense of loyalty can be your voluntary force of team balancers to immediately level out a population imbalance.

Rule 1 wouldn't work, but rule 2 might.

Though I still think the game would feel better with one empire per character (and one empire per server, for that matter).

Duddy · 2011-08-01, 10:03 AM

I think there is some misunderstanding going on here about his idea:

Your earned skills/certs carry over
Your battle rank DOES NOT carry over
What certs/skill you can use are limited by your battle rank, meaning you can't start a new character and use all your best cert/skills

Also Vancha, curious as to why you think his Rule 1 wouldn't work.

I have my own ideas as to how it would be handled but it also uses a variant of "can't switch to higher pop under certain conditions".

opticalshadow · 2011-08-01, 11:15 AM

one empire per server please, and i dont want things to carry over either, theres some cheese outfits can get away with if thats allowed, and it encourages server changing. you pick and empire and a server it should like be picking a side in this war, thats your choice for life. you should not get a better character elsewhere cause you put time in here, theres no real justifacation for this.

what if x turns out to be up?

thats the case in any mmo you play, your class could be up, and now you have to level a new guy, to bad, but just because you did this once doesnt give you special treatment.

Vancha · 2011-08-01, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by Duddy

Also Vancha, curious as to why you think his Rule 1 wouldn't work.

Main reason: 4th empire logging on to 36%, then having the regular players of that empire logging on afterwards (due to prime time or what have you) to push it up further. Not to mention all the 4th empire people who last played that empire. Sure you'd have other empire's logging on more too, but I still think it could be skewed. Thinking about the odd day I'd played on TR with you, I'd be pissed if I couldn't go back to my usual NC because 4th empire had capped NC to 36%.

Almost irrelevant reason: Alternate accounts.

Tatwi · 2011-08-01, 02:46 PM

I'm all for removing grinds and blatant wastes of time that do not contribute to the actual fun of games, but there's something to be said about the inertia that is provided by having to level other characters. In a game like Planetside, where all of the content is generated by player activity, the biggest help the community as a whole would be for players to focus on playing one character and sticking to it. That way the empire balance and the social balance can "count on" each player's activity until they quit playing the game all together.

The other side of the coin is allowing players to have a whack of different characters, diminishing the importance of the role of each of those characters due to the inability to play all of them at once, which leads to no one really being able to "count on" any of that player's characters.

Really, it's a game so people should be able to do whatever they want within the rules of the game, but it is worthy of note that having a "main" character is better for the community of the game as a whole. Hmm... it's kind of like the "jack of all trades, master of none" logic applied to a population rather than an individual.

Sifer2 · 2011-08-01, 08:11 PM

The "but I have freinds on other empires so I need to be able to switch back an forth" argument doesn't really hold water to me. If they are really your friends so much or you theirs then you one of you would compromise an play on the same team. Since I know for me being able to play with buddies would be more important that what equipment i'm using.

I think one character, one empire per server is the best system period. So long as there are other servers you can make your alts. Even newbies can do this an whichever character they figure out they like they just stick with that server.

From what I have heard it seems like the PS2 devs vision for this game is one where your attached to your faction an your characters specialization means something. Since it will take a while to train. Giving you more characters an allowing switching would undermine a lot of what they are trying to do.