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Old 2012-12-20, 11:40 AM   [Ignore Me] #46
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Re: Huge Outfits and PlanetSide 2


Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
I believe the solution to the problem can be found in the design of bases and outposts.
Agreed.
Originally Posted by belch View Post
You know, with 'units' being specific to servers, there is absolutely no reason why they should not be actively talking to each other, developing operational plans. It is, after all, a persistent battle space. Just as an example...establish key areas specific to outfits. Nothing wrong with sharing battle space, but as near as I can tell, it's just a grab bag of 'lets fight guys here'.

Even the smaller outfits could find their role, just as a BDE within a Division...a Battalion within a Brigade...a Company within a Battalion...a Platoon within a Company...

All of those elements, and even further down, have a role...a mission. None of those elements is able to operate at full potential without coordiantion. Even the bigger outfits.
Well some of us have been trying to strengthen inter-Outfit coordination, but that kind of networking isn't done at the drop of a hat.
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Old 2012-12-20, 11:41 AM   [Ignore Me] #47
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Re: Huge Outfits and PlanetSide 2


Originally Posted by Bear View Post
I don't think the problem is outfit size but rather an effective way for smaller groups to communicate.

This, quite frankly is key.. It's a massive FPS game, you can't go around artificially limiting people's ability to coordinate or gather up troops under the same banner.. Even if you made it no platoons and ten man squads only, some Outfits (despite the logistical issues) would find a way to coordinate 15 individual squads and you're back to square one again..

Large outfits are going to exist, best find ways to adapt, because they're not going anywhere.. Ultimately this is more an issue with SOE not really giving us the tools to coordinate smaller groups on a larger scale right out of the box. They need to clean up their squad/platoon interface (which is mildly broken at the moment) so it works correctly, and allow Outfits to combine into Alliances, and develop the player tools to support that properly. It's not a big $$$ generator like putting out new weapons or camos, but they devs need to address this as some point.

Tactics are important, but only go so far against a horde in a game like PS2; being able to coordinate smaller groups together would be a big step.
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Old 2012-12-20, 11:45 AM   [Ignore Me] #48
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Re: Huge Outfits and PlanetSide 2


Originally Posted by Whiteagle View Post
Well some of us have been trying to strengthen inter-Outfit coordination, but that kind of networking isn't done at the drop of a hat.
If they ever do allow server transfers, I'll make sure to hit you up.
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Old 2012-12-20, 11:46 AM   [Ignore Me] #49
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Re: Huge Outfits and PlanetSide 2


My gut is telling me this is a symptom of perpetual 3 way fights. I'm not sure why it's telling me that and it would probably take me a while to dig the reason up but that's what my gut is telling me.
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Old 2012-12-20, 11:49 AM   [Ignore Me] #50
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Re: Huge Outfits and PlanetSide 2


Originally Posted by Asp View Post
This, quite frankly is key.. It's a massive FPS game, you can't go around artificially limiting people's ability to coordinate or gather up troops under the same banner.. Even if you made it no platoons and ten man squads only, some Outfits (despite the logistical issues) would find a way to coordinate 15 individual squads and you're back to square one again..

Large outfits are going to exist, best find ways to adapt, because they're not going anywhere.. Ultimately this is more an issue with SOE not really giving us the tools to coordinate smaller groups on a larger scale right out of the box. They need to clean up their squad/platoon interface (which is mildly broken at the moment) so it works correctly, and allow Outfits to combine into Alliances, and develop the player tools to support that properly. It's not a big $$$ generator like putting out new weapons or camos, but they devs need to address this as some point.

Tactics are important, but only go so far against a horde in a game like PS2; being able to coordinate smaller groups together would be a big step.
We don't need SOE to do anything for this to happen.

Dragonwolves have been around for quite a while and I'd expect you know other similarly sized outfits on your server. Get in touch and set up a cross-outfit ts whisper.

You don't have to go so far as to integrate other outfits in your squad, just pass on info like where your platoon is, where you are attacking, when you need help or can provide help to them ... and so on.

I think the areas where we def. do need SOE assistance is on base defensibility etc.
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Old 2012-12-20, 11:53 AM   [Ignore Me] #51
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Re: Huge Outfits and PlanetSide 2


Originally Posted by belch View Post
If they ever do allow server transfers, I'll make sure to hit you up.
Hell there was already a site, I'm just directing people to it.
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Old 2012-12-20, 11:55 AM   [Ignore Me] #52
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Re: Huge Outfits and PlanetSide 2


I think many people have touched on many items in this thread. It seems to me there are a large variety of problems.
  • Lack of Tools: There is no easy way to coordinate multiple Outfits. As a result, outfits end up folding into huge outfits or just giving up.
  • Territory Adjacency: It's impossible to do any covert actions, something you could somewhat do in PlanetSide 1. You are stuck to the front lines or stuck having to weave your way between massive zergs. You can't deny tech to someone other than taking a base for example.
  • Viable Spawns: Sunderer is good and all, but it's not even remotely covert. The Galaxy was overpowered as an all encompassing AMS but I'd love to see it come back in a more restricted manner.
  • Lack of defensive bonuses: We used to get more of a benefit from defending. Now, there IS a benefit now but it's not well communicated. Things like setting up CE in a courtyard before moving on were common place in PS1 - now the zerg completely abandons bases and moves on making little attempt at defense.
It boils down to the fact no small(ish) outfit is able to compete or do anything except roll along side the Zerg. Which is a viable tactic don't get me wrong.. but there should be other options for teams that want to operate differently.
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Last edited by Hamma; 2012-12-20 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 2012-12-20, 11:58 AM   [Ignore Me] #53
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Re: Huge Outfits and PlanetSide 2


Why don't outfits leave troops behind for base defence? I see this all of the time. An area steamrolled, outfit moves out, minutes later, area re-captured.
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Old 2012-12-20, 12:04 PM   [Ignore Me] #54
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Re: Huge Outfits and PlanetSide 2


How do you guys feel about removing the adjacency restrictions? Meaning that you could allow small groups to take territories without adjacency to their empire. If you could do that then you would force the zerg to spread out and defend bases if you want to turn the continent your color to get the bonuses associated with it.. you would have to have people defending small bases to accomplish that.

The flip side is doing that would also make it really hard to accomplish a continent lock.. so the only times continents will likely flip is late night early morning when one faction can simply over power the low population.
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Old 2012-12-20, 12:07 PM   [Ignore Me] #55
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Re: Huge Outfits and PlanetSide 2


I would volunteer to be in a defence platoon for an outfit. To be moved into an area after a major fight to hold the line.
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Old 2012-12-20, 12:09 PM   [Ignore Me] #56
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Re: Huge Outfits and PlanetSide 2


Maybe things will change when we get our 4th or 5th continent and we have the locks happening. Once the global lattice system is in we'll usually have two empires fighting over a map and one zerg just blitzing through is not going to take a lot of territory. I think once we have more maps and those locks the game will be very different. There will be a real front line and smaller outfits will have a lot more value.

In order to take or hold a continent you're going to need to hold all the territory, not a single base. But hey who knows what that will look like. I still think that's the best thing SOE can do to make this a game about strategy and less zerg tactics.

We need those next three continents asap. When SOE posts their 6 month plan and asks us what to prioritize, we have to go in and tell them to get the three new maps in along with a real metagame.
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Old 2012-12-20, 12:10 PM   [Ignore Me] #57
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Re: Huge Outfits and PlanetSide 2


Originally Posted by SGTHACK View Post
Why don't outfits leave troops behind for base defence? I see this all of the time. An area steamrolled, outfit moves out, minutes later, area re-captured.
Because base flipping generates the large EXP flashes across the screen that gives players the instant gratification they are looking for. Defenese requires people to attack for a longer period of time without simply moving to another base to take and you don't get any exp when the screen flashes that you still own the objective.. discouraging zerglings from staying... I routinely hear people complain that defense ticks don't give exp so they aren't worth the time.

Back when you saw defense ticks in beta.. like you see capture ticks.. then people started defending more. Then the problem was also created with people AFKing in defended bases just milking exp.... bottom line people suck and Developers will have their hands full trying to please the masses without creating a easy track for AFKers to get rewards.
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Old 2012-12-20, 12:14 PM   [Ignore Me] #58
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Re: Huge Outfits and PlanetSide 2


I must be different. I play for the fun of combat, not the points.
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Old 2012-12-20, 12:14 PM   [Ignore Me] #59
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Re: Huge Outfits and PlanetSide 2


Another short term solution would be to make resources more scarce. When a zerg gets rolling they just mass up tanks and go. Perhaps one way to defend against a zerg is while they attack a base you go and take all the small outposts with resources and they run out of steam.

The only time resources matter in this game is when you have nothing on a continent. Resources should matter all the time and going after the enemy's economy should be a valid tactic.
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Old 2012-12-20, 12:17 PM   [Ignore Me] #60
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Re: Huge Outfits and PlanetSide 2


Originally Posted by Dragonskin View Post
How do you guys feel about removing the adjacency restrictions? Meaning that you could allow small groups to take territories without adjacency to their empire. If you could do that then you would force the zerg to spread out and defend bases if you want to turn the continent your color to get the bonuses associated with it.. you would have to have people defending small bases to accomplish that.

The flip side is doing that would also make it really hard to accomplish a continent lock.. so the only times continents will likely flip is late night early morning when one faction can simply over power the low population.
Eh, it's a mix bagged really...

A single man can cut off Resources and Facility Benifits if he's smart about the adjecent territories he captures, but that's because no one bothers to defend...

...The defensive game is going to need a huge improvement before you can even think about this either way though.

Originally Posted by PoisonTaco View Post
We need those next three continents asap. When SOE posts their 6 month plan and asks us what to prioritize, we have to go in and tell them to get the three new maps in along with a real metagame.
...I don't know man...

If we get three more continents full of indefensible bases, we might still be in the same boat.

...Hears hoping they learned from Amerish, which is the best Continent so far when it comes to defense.
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