No Auraxis for Tanks! - Page 2

capiqu · 2014-02-05, 12:49 AM

I agree With the following:

A) 3 crew MBt's.
B) Ability to load MBT's with 3 guns, AA,AV and AI simultaneously or any
Other combination of guns.
C) The ability to change load outs via ammo silos or Saunderer or galaxy.

OR

D) Allow MBT's to carry all types of shells.
E) Better Radar system to detect enemy armor or air.
F) Lessen c4 Damage. 1 person alone should not be able to take a tank
Down.
G) Lessen engineer AV turrets range.

War Barney · 2014-02-05, 07:17 AM

No less C4 damage is insane, you obviously don't play a heavy or you'd know just how hard it is to kill tanks with it. The only way you get a C4 kill is by

A. The tank driver being a complete idiot with no awareness of his surroundings

B. The tank driver parking right under a outcrop of rock or a balcony so you can easily get above them.

C. Mega stealthy play where you very slowly sneak around back of the enemy and hope they don't spot you (which 90% of the time they will)

I don't get why people try to say tanks are weak... saying they have large limitations on where they can go I understand and its normal, what do you want biolabs with tank grav lift so you can fly up and go overload the generator in your tank? It takes about 3 deci shots to kill a lightning which is hard to pull off and more (I'd guess 5-6) to kill a MBT, thats insanely hard to do.

And as I said C4 is a nice equaliser but its hardly OP when you need to get right up next to a tank which can shoot you even if your right next to it thanks to the weird physics of the game. Even then it takes 2 C4 to kill a MBT, to get those both on you need to not be noticed at all and the driver needs to be sitting completely still (which good drivers don't do or if they do they check around them now and then)

Edfishy · 2014-02-05, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by War Barney

No less C4 damage is insane, you obviously don't play a heavy or you'd know just how hard it is to kill tanks with it. The only way you get a C4 kill is by

Play as a Light Assault and get double C-4. It's quite easy.

I don't get why people try to say tanks are weak... saying they have large limitations on where they can go I understand and its normal, what do you want biolabs with tank grav lift so you can fly up and go overload the generator in your tank? It takes about 3 deci shots to kill a lightning which is hard to pull off and more (I'd guess 5-6) to kill a MBT, thats insanely hard to do.

Not saying they're weak, they're just not fun to play as. They cost a small fortune and die within a few short minutes. For the cost, I'd rather pull an AMS to backup existing AMS's, as it'll likely contribute more.

Dragonskin · 2014-02-05, 10:52 AM

There are 2 things I would like to see come for tanks.

1. The ability for galaxies to be able to lift and move 1 or 2 MBTs at a time if certed for it or maybe 4-5 lightnings if no MBTs go in.

2. Tanks need to have their upgrade slots and categories re-visited like the AMS was for sunderers. I have a feeling that if they looked into the data they would find the vast majority of tankers using the same slot upgrades.

An idea of what I think would work better is more like the below.

Passive Systems-
Acquistion Timer
Faction specific ability.

Utility Slot -
IR Smoke
Fire Suppression
Vehicle Stealth
Proximity Radar (I feel this should actually be a slot on the secondary gun)

Defense Slot -
Nanite Auto Repair System
Mine Guard
Reinforced Armor (combine front, side and top together)

Performance Slot -
Rival Combat Chassis
Racer High Speed Chassis

Don't make us have to choose between the faction ability and having IR Smoke or Fire Suppression. Put the other utility functions in utility instead of in defense. Then combine the armor upgrades so that you actually have a reason to use them.. you can tier it like other upgrades to make the cert investment worth the upgrade value.

War Barney · 2014-02-05, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by Edfishy

Play as a Light Assault and get double C-4. It's quite easy.

Not saying they're weak, they're just not fun to play as. They cost a small fortune and die within a few short minutes. For the cost, I'd rather pull an AMS to backup existing AMS's, as it'll likely contribute more.

the solution is obvious then, make only the heavy get C4 or reduce its damage but increase rocket damage, if you nerfed the C4 it would make playing a anti tank heavy incredibly difficult and be a huge buff to tanks.

Tanks don't cost a small fortune, most of the time by the time I die in a tank I've got enough resource to get a new one and the timer has expired, sure if you charge right into a base of 50 people alone you'll die quickly but if you stay with other tanks and play carefully its not hard to keep alive. Hell if you go as a engineer when people start to rocket you you can outheal their damage with ease until they run out of ammo

HereticusXZ · 2014-02-05, 11:53 AM

Again...

All infantry except for Infiltrator and MAX can cert into and obtain C4 for 75/750 Infantry Resources, the Engineer can even cert into Utility pouch Suit Slot and carry more then two C4. C4 instant kills tanks.

The MBT is the single most expensive thing to spawn in the entire game costing you 450/750 Mechanized Resources.

The Tech-plant being owned and having connecting territory to your current location is also a requirement to spawn a MBT.

This is a exception to the rule but you might on occasion run into a Tanker team of 2 where if 1 person loses a Tank the second will spawn a new one... But on average you kill a MBT then that player can't spawn a new one for a good 5, 10, even 15 minutes depending on how much territory your Empire owns for resource gain.

I'm not asking for a gravity lift for Tanks into Bio-Labs... Infantry want there Infantry only facility fights? Okay! Done deal! But Tankers would at least like to have 2-3 Tank favored facility fights. Give us a solid competitive reason to spawn a tank and meaningfully contribute to the fight instead of just waiting outside of Esamire inspired base designs with giant walls waiting for the Infantry to finish the capture/defense.... Of which the Infantry will just redeploy to the Galaxy and drop on the next Wall covered facility leaving Tanks with nothing to do....

War Barney · 2014-02-05, 02:40 PM

C4 isn't a instant kill, it takes 2 C4 to kill any tanks (or 1 and a rocket shot for a lightning) but that involves you getting right up next to them for it to work (oh and its 100 each one not 75). I would be fine with them taking the C4 from every class except the HA as the HA is meant to be the tank killer so it doesn't really make much sense to give the only really useful tool they have to kill tanks to almost every other class.

And it only takes 15mins if you deploy your tank with NO certs spent on acquisition timer reduction then pretty much instantly driver over a tank mine, unless you are completely incompetent by the time you die you will have recovered the resource to get it and the timer will have long since gone. I don't even use my tanks much but whenever I do I survive long enough to get back the resources and have the timer back at 0 (even with only about 3-4 upgrades for the acquisition timer out of what, 15?).

I can understand C4 being annoying but if you gimp that you'll take away 1 of the few useful tools a HA has, the rockets are nice for having a ranged option but do so little damage I rarely rely on it for a tank kill, the C4 is the main tool I use despite it coming with a HUGE risk

capiqu · 2014-02-05, 03:53 PM

One thing I hate is when I think I am far away enough from the facilities and safe until some light assault takes it upon himself to run a marathon far away from the facility and C4 me.
I would understand 2 or 3 heavy assaults with rockets but not 1 sole person with c4.

Edfishy · 2014-02-05, 04:56 PM

I really don't think C4 is the problem. It's really just the channeled corridors we're forced to move down as tanks and putting our tanks at risk nearby an enemy base. Tanks having their own objectives off in the hills and only using armour for occasional pushes onto bases would probably be sufficient.

As for HA rockets, any competent Mag Rider pilot can avoid dumbfire rockets so it's not even worth the trouble. I found lock-on works well to back'em off (They really don't like getting locked on or touched by rockets... I guess it doesn't happen often enough to'em ;D), but not enough of the scrubs around me have any kind of lock-on rocket. Because, /begin gripe newbies do not having proper starter equipment. /end gripe. =P

Edit:

And +1 on the better detection suggestion for Tanks. If they had a Scout Radar that was 100m but personal only (doesn't cast to allies) it'd make it much harder for those suicide LA's to lulz pop your tank.

KesTro · 2014-02-05, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by capiqu

I agree With the following:

A) 3 crew MBt's.
B) Ability to load MBT's with 3 guns, AA,AV and AI simultaneously or any
Other combination of guns.
C) The ability to change load outs via ammo silos or Saunderer or galaxy

Agree with all except for The ability to load MBT's with 3 guns that can fill all duties. I absolutely 100% do not want to see anything else in this game be a jack of all trades. I've gotten into countless debates with some of the ESF pilots in this game and as it stands they can equip for anti-air, anti-infantry and anti-armor in a single load out and are A-okay with that. Imagine if the lightning could have the skyguard, HE and AP cannon in a single load out? That's basically what the ground equivalent of a ground based ESF would be which is what a MBT with all 3 roles filled would be.

I want hard counters in this game not a load out people default to since it covers all walks of Planetside. That being said a 3man crewed MBT is something I recall them explicitly saying they won't do because it would drive some of the newer players too far away from being able to pull a MBT and have fun since they would need a dedicated gunner. I'm of the mind you should never be in a MBT without your secondary gunner but the fact that you can is good for player retention.

The ability to change loadouts I recall them saying long ago was something they couldn't do because each type of vehicle was a static object so they couldn't tamper with it. I do believe that has changed however with the OMFG update, correct me if I'm wrong. In which case there's really no reason something like that shouldn't come to us down the line.

And the bit about the C4 makes me chuckle a little bit. It's always unfortunate when a tank gets C4ed but with good position and awareness I've found that has happened rarely if ever in the last 6 months. At least not personally. Just try not to get tunnel vision when you hone in on a target and don't camp in a single spot for too long. People 'will' notice.

Baneblade · 2014-02-05, 06:46 PM

While there are advantages to self gunning MBTs, I would much prefer the 3 man crew we've all been saying is necessary since PS2 became its own game. The MBT driver should have access to a Flash style weapon however, limited forward arc, etc. The MBT driver should also be able to see the visual fields of the gunners if they want the option. So you could sort of do the reverse camera thing with the small turret.

C4 is not entirely bad, but it definitely needs to be less prolific. I'd be okay with it being limited to HA and/or Medics. Saying this as someone who also uses it with LA, but not HA/Medic.

MBTs should be limited to AP rounds in the main gun. Let the old HE and HEAT turrets change things like reload, velocity, and magazine capacity. Go back to magazines for tanks. Balance them accordingly. Having must have cert lines that directly influence how much damage you do goes against the whole point of half the sidegrade nonsense in PS2.

The slowest tank should have the most defense. The Vanguard is massive and easy to hit, yet it also the slowest in every way that matters. The shield only marginally compensates for this. If some clown says the Mag is slower, I'll crap in their helmet.

Illtempered · 2014-02-05, 07:09 PM

I both love and hate this new feature. I love it because our outfit is mobile-infantry based and this is our ultimate tool. I hate it because it just seems too easy. We were flying around dropping hell on everything in the neighborhood....armor, turrets, points NOTHING was safe. Now it takes a well-certed battle-gal to do the kind of thing we were doing, but it seemed quite OP. Then again, everybody has access to it.

New players especially seemed to love it because they didn't feel so lost. They were instantly joined with their squad amongst all the action and felt like they were a part of the team and contributing. Running the battle-gal taxi platoon is a great recruitment tool as well.

It seems most of us are reaching a consensus that it's a good thing that needs tweaking with some kind of cool-down like the spawn-beacon.

libbmaster · 2014-02-08, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by typhaon

Tanks are too weak, too cheap, and too easy to spawn.

I've never bought that tanks were great armor vs. armor... Tanks are great at camping infantry spawns... and to counter that, SOE gave every infantry (cept infiltrators) excellent tank counters.

The core of the problem.

I've been trying to tell people that tanks will be useless and AV weapons plentiful as long as these things hold true:

1). Any given person can pull an MBT.

2). MBTs can be pulled at any large outpost.

3). One person can drive and gun, making MBTs just big lightnings with an optional gunner seat.

Tankers complain that their tanks are weak: This is true. And individual tank does not last long, nor does it do much. Individual tanks are not the problem: the ability for a casual zerg to produce 50+ of them in the blink of an eye is the issue.

As long as tanks are that abundant and accessible, they will be balanced to compensate.

EDIT: Oh, I almost forgot to add: As long as tanks are able to influence battles in infantry's "sphere" (Base battles) infantry will need to be able to influence battles in armor's "sphere" (Field battles) for things to be fair.

If bases were moved underground and entirely enclosed like in PS1, I would be comfortable giving up my MANA AV and lock-ons. Otherwise, we will continue to see vehicle on infantry farming, and the release of more ranged AV weapons for infantry, which is fun for no-one.

libbmaster · 2014-02-08, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by Baneblade

While there are advantages to self gunning MBTs, I would much prefer the 3 man crew we've all been saying is necessary since PS2 became its own game. The MBT driver should have access to a Flash style weapon however, limited forward arc, etc. The MBT driver should also be able to see the visual fields of the gunners if they want the option. So you could sort of do the reverse camera thing with the small turret.

C4 is not entirely bad, but it definitely needs to be less prolific. I'd be okay with it being limited to HA and/or Medics. Saying this as someone who also uses it with LA, but not HA/Medic.

MBTs should be limited to AP rounds in the main gun. Let the old HE and HEAT turrets change things like reload, velocity, and magazine capacity. Go back to magazines for tanks. Balance them accordingly. Having must have cert lines that directly influence how much damage you do goes against the whole point of half the sidegrade nonsense in PS2.

The slowest tank should have the most defense. The Vanguard is massive and easy to hit, yet it also the slowest in every way that matters. The shield only marginally compensates for this. If some clown says the Mag is slower, I'll crap in their helmet.

But I thought the mag had 50 kph, while the van has 55 kp-*BLAM*

On topic:

I like the flash weapon idea. I didn't think of that before. It' a very "WW2" thing, but it could work.

As for C4, I also agree that it needs to be limited.

How ever, I feel like it would be a better fit for just the LA and engie classes, instead of the medic and HA. Personal opinion, I guess.

libbmaster · 2014-02-08, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by Illtempered

I both love and hate this new feature. I love it because our outfit is mobile-infantry based and this is our ultimate tool. I hate it because it just seems too easy. We were flying around dropping hell on everything in the neighborhood....armor, turrets, points NOTHING was safe. Now it takes a well-certed battle-gal to do the kind of thing we were doing, but it seemed quite OP. Then again, everybody has access to it.

New players especially seemed to love it because they didn't feel so lost. They were instantly joined with their squad amongst all the action and felt like they were a part of the team and contributing. Running the battle-gal taxi platoon is a great recruitment tool as well.

It seems most of us are reaching a consensus that it's a good thing that needs tweaking with some kind of cool-down like the spawn-beacon.

I would be conformable if they increased the spawn timer and bared it from working in no deploy zones.

That said, I think it's awesome. There is finally a reason to keep your gal around, or pull a battle bus.

I think this is a great way to encourage "mechanized/airborne infantry" tactics, with squads based around their transport.