The Speed of Combat

[Traak]

Originally Posted by KornDemon

Well how about giving the person with OS powers different things to choose from. Instead of firing off an OS, you could choose to order an AMS via airdrop to the chosen location? (you'll be able to use it for an hour or so, if you don't have the cert).
Or make it a stationary spawning location, which comes down from orbit with a bigger drop pod.

Or just being able to put an empire-wide WP on it that anyone can see. Then they STILL have to run up and kill it. This is effectively how it is or was with the cheaters we were swamped with, at least before they banned trial accounts, anyway. I think a heck of a battle could result in from an AMS being waypointed instead of OSed.

How to prevent abuse of empire-wide WP's? Make them ONLY work if PRECISELY placed on the CENTER of an AMS. That implies having to actually get off the wall where you were huddled in the door of your staircase to get close enough to SEE and PLACE the WP. AND they can only be used once per hour per empire. AND they have to be set by a very short-range laze pointer.

As I said, earlier, AMSes have never been a problem in there being too many. But the OS, as the game matures again, will once again, if not properly checked, just make cowardly idiots reign supreme like it did in PS.

[Bags]

Originally Posted by Traak

Or just being able to put an empire-wide WP on it that anyone can see. Then they STILL have to run up and kill it. This is effectively how it is or was with the cheaters we were swamped with, at least before they banned trial accounts, anyway. I think a heck of a battle could result in from an AMS being waypointed instead of OSed.

How to prevent abuse of empire-wide WP's? Make them ONLY work if PRECISELY placed on the CENTER of an AMS. That implies having to actually get off the wall where you were huddled in the door of your staircase to get close enough to SEE and PLACE the WP. AND they can only be used once per hour per empire. AND they have to be set by a very short-range laze pointer.

As I said, earlier, AMSes have never been a problem in there being too many. But the OS, as the game matures again, will once again, if not properly checked, just make cowardly idiots reign supreme like it did in PS.

Traak, you seem like a very angry person. May I ask why using the tools provided to you by command rank makes people cowardly idiots?

[Traak]

Originally Posted by Bags

Traak, you seem like a very angry person. May I ask why using the tools provided to you by command rank makes people cowardly idiots?

It's legal in some countries to utilize underage prostitutes. Just because something is allowed by some rule set doesn't make it wonderful or acceptable.

The command tools don't make them cowardly idiots, the tools make it possible for cowardly idiots to thrive. And cowardly idiots thriving is something we get enough of in real life, at the office, in politics, wherever. We don't need to artificially create situations where the same species has one more place to succeed.

I mean, why stop there? Why not make it so one faction can sue the other faction also? Claim racial discrimination if I make a slur against the Vanu?

The point is that I think combat should be about having to close with the enemy and kill them, the definition of the infantry soldier. Not be able to be far away and inflict death at no risk whatsoever of even being noticed, let alone discovered.

The problem is that over time, we will again be swamped with CR's that can use the OS, and again, who will suffer? The CR4 and 5 cowards, or the support guys? Having AMSes last longer doesn't ruin battles, it makes them better.

Too often, a battle will be going great guns LOL, another pun, these just seem to be so easy to come by here, anyway, and then the only AMS gets OSed, battle drops to zero. Whoop de doo. Momentum lost, from both sides, fun plummets, XP stops. All because one *** had an OS? Or ten **** had OSes?

Yes, they were every three hours. Sure. Great. Problem is they will once again go to being every five minutes if they are not severely controlled. Leave any privileges of rank at the level of monitoring or information, not uber-weapons that will end up in the hands of too many.

It's hard enough to get a good assault going without morons being able to switch it off with a CUD. It provides a negative overall effect for the game. People will, again, use it to kill wall turrets that are having great effect, OS vehicle pads with friendlies on them so he can get to the front of the line, all sorts of stuff that has absolutely no positive impact on anything related to the game whatsoever. I would rather see a gigantic indiscriminate base-and-everyone-in-the-SOI killing nuke that was available once a YEAR than OSes that would again, be drastically overused.

If you want OSes that come from an orbiting platform, then make it so we can shoot the thing down with AA.

Again, making the game suck for the entire support class just so some childish CR's can have their fun is stupid.

As I said, if you want an AMS destroyed, grow at least one ball and go do it in person. This isn't supposed to be Cowardiceisrewardedside, which it has turned into.

[Hamma]

Honestly Orbital Strikes were the least of this games balance problems. Sure now it might be a bit OP because everyone has one but I still don't think it's on the scale you describe.

[Tikuto]

Excessive Orbital Strikes.
Excessive super-powers.

I see multiple small O.S. at the same time: yeah. cool.
I see one big O.S. at one time: yeah. cool.
I see the two same things frequently, seperately or together: no. lame.

[BlazingSun]

I'd like to mention, that OSes were pretty much the only way, to temporally break free from a siege and get out from inside the base again.

I really don't see them as such a big problem. Sure there might be too many CR5s after 7 years into the game, but if the only problem that PS:N will have is, that there are too many people with OSes after 3-4 years, I'd be happy.

[Tremadog]

At the risk of steering this back on topic, I agree that Planetside has a unique pacing, I think the combat itself is fine, but getting back into combat needs to be done quicker, but I'm not sure what methods that would require.

Either there needs to be a more intelligent respawn system, more incentive to use transport vehicles, but from the moment you die, you really need to be able to get back into the action in a meaningful manner more quickly. Even if you can't respawn more quickly, being able to organise loadouts when you are waiting to respawn or something, so you don't need to run to a terminal after respawning? Perhaps the AMS could function like a transport vehicle that people could respawn inside? These ideas may be old, or utter rubbish, but I think they should be considered, at least.

I think the fighting itself is fine, since it takes a while to kill your character in many cases, outdoor combat often giving you time to look for cover, heal up and try different tactics if you get attacked (unless a stray tank shell lands on your head, of course). Making a player easier to kill just means more time spent staring at the respawn screen, after all.

[Traak]

Originally Posted by KornDemon

I'd like to mention, that OSes were pretty much the only way, to temporally break free from a siege and get out from inside the base again.

If you want to get out, get to sanc, spawn an AMS, and get back in the battle. Or a plane, or something. I have done it many times.

If you have no spawn points on the cont, then get a mob of people, work as a unit, rush one door, and bust out.

OMG teamwork! If you can't get the people together, your empire can't work as a unit, you don't deserve the OS anyway.

[Peacemaker]

Derailed. (Its 2:30 am. I cant be bothered to find a "Derailed" train pic and post it here.)

[Sirisian]

Originally Posted by Peacemaker

Derailed. (Its 2:30 am. I cant be bothered to find a "Derailed" train pic and post it here.)

3 AM here. Can't tell if he's a troll that hasn't played Planetside before. But anyway.

[DviddLeff]

Regarding the speed of combat:

I much prefer the feel of the BF games where as you guys have said it takes significantly less time than in old PS, and a bit more time than in CoD games. Main factor that effect it is the TTK of weapons. For the most weapons it is simply too long, especially at range with MA rifles where damage degradation makes it even slower.

With med packs it makes combat even more lop sided; those with high TTK weapons (HA, most vehicle guns) kill even quicker than low TTK weapons (MA, pistols, mag main gun even) as the enemy has more time to pop med packs or even get back into cover.

While yes, it does suck to be killed, unless you are zerging from base to base the travel time from the AMS (or possibly the Gal in the sequel?) should not be too long, and if you are in a vehicle its not a long travel time at all.

I also feel that base hack timers are way too long; if you cant re-secure a base in ten minutes, the only way you will get it back in the last five is if the defenders get so bored they go AFK or leave to find some fun (which often happens).

Spawn timers are fine as is.

Orbital Strikes I find irritating, they are a cheap way to grab kills and ruin a fight. They should not be a reward granted to those that lead, leaders should only get helpful perks, like the reveal enemies or perhaps the ability to place a Simple Medical Station (instead of the Advanced Medical Station) to allow people to respawn in the field.

Instead of OS's you can already slap a waypoint on the AMS and have your platoon direct their fire, be it in the form of Reaver air strikes, tank shells or artillery. You can always spawn at another base or at sanc to grab your vehicles to do the job (except in a pop lock of course).

[Robert089]

I think a command ability where you can call in a spawn point would help to speed up combat and perhaps help to deal with peoples worries about orbital strikes.

It could be something similar to a HART drop pod with equipment terminals on the sides. Perhaps if a squad leader uses it all of his squad will automatically be bound to it allowing them to spawn there, making it useful for assaults or just regrouping.

[DviddLeff]

I just added that to my PUP

[CutterJohn]

Said it before.. Expand the grouping options for players. Not just squad, and platoon, but company, brigade, army, as well. Instead of command ranks, grant the command tools based on your 'rank' in the current games command hierarchy, and the number of troops you have under your command.

In other words, command ranks are entirely temporary, and you only get them when actively leading. If you aren't actively leading and supporting your troops with your tools, players will notice, and bail for a commander that does. It makes command ranks a continuous democratic process, and the number of things like OSes in the field are directly limited by players online. If you only get a small OS when in command of a platoon with 20+ people, there won't be many OSes being used. at best 1 in 20 players will have them.


Regarding speed of combat, I think its ok, but I think that the turnaround to get back into combat could use some help. Things like:

-Being able to use the big glue gun to repair MAXes or other soldiers(not self heal).

-Better respawn timers if you've managed to stay alive for a certain time.

-Better revives for medics.

-A run mode for soldiers like MAXes have, with downsides like no weapon, drained stamina(though it doesn't stop), cancels if shot. Not surge.. Surge is useful for combat.

-Micro vehicle spawns at towers and possible AMS or Lodes for ATVs, to go along with a suggestion I saw earlier in the thread about giving everyone a free, weaponless ATV cert.

-More respawn options so you're not trapped somewhere. Perhaps you bind to another base automatically. A nearby one, or a far away one.

-Improved vehicle repair times, to get you back into the fight faster. Or somehow improving the lodestar pilot experience to encourage more of them.

-Have certs include both a 'premium' vehicle with a long respawn timer, and a 'cheap' one with a short timer, with the same general role. An example would be a normal tank, and something like a 2man lightning. Players that lose the tank, rather than having to wait for the vehicle timer, can get back out in the lighter tank and still have fun, instead of waiting out the five minutes.

-Shorter paths in the base, at least while it is not under siege. When enemies come, doors can lockdown(that can't be bypassed).

-Being able to select your fit during the respawn timer, rather than having to wait until you respawn to get your gear. Perhaps even being able to respawn directly into a vehicle, though that at least I would see on a longish timer.



Time to kills I think are pretty decent, all things considered. Looked at on 1v1, yeah, they seem rather long compared to other games, but you'll oftentimes be charging into so many enemies that shorter ttks would just mean pushing into an entrenched position is nearly impossible.

[Aractain]

1 to 3 seconds of constant accurate fire is not too long to me - its FAR easier to get kills in COD games. Planetside's system actually promoted skill, although I do realise the agile/HA players often wanted a more fast paced game but I don't think that's really appropriate given the clientside/wargame style.

The biggest problem IMO to the speed of the combat was aoe spam; plasma, maelstrom, tank guns. Never mind the fact your were facing several streams of lasher bolts or Gauss rounds while on fire - the more 'casual' players (those people who left) would just die and die and die. Remove all that spam and everyone gets more fun gameplay, sans spammers. The top tier players (that's basically everyone still playing) can mitigate most of the pain but the fodder who just want a good fight die in more like 0.1 seconds.

There's a place for AOE area denial weapons but not indoors thanks.

The respawn penalty for deaths didn't make anyone I knew play better - they just got annoyed at yet another feature of the game that was boring or frustrating. (seriously who cares if someone gets spawn camped a lot if he chooses that? Hes already throwing away his own time, why waste more?)