Dual wield pistols yes or no?

[Hypevosa]

Bullet drop and lead are really not something normal "luck" can account for, it requires alot of experience to even be able to guess the general area you should be firing in over such a distance, and just as much experience to adjust your aim when you see where you actually hit assuming the target is still moving around and that distance and lateral speed keep changing.

I can only assume that since we have bullet drop we have bullet travel times, meaning you can probably actually dodge a bullet if you see the muzzle flash and they're aiming at the teensy target that is your head.

I myself am a fan of the idea of having a helmet that prevents a headshot until destroyed (good reason to keep engineers around), but leaving the face as an open target since it would take a more precise shot to hit it.

Plus, snipers are assholes, and I'm sure you'll have plenty of people in your squad who will take up the mantle of counter sniping ;D

[Purple]

Originally Posted by Hypevosa

Bullet drop and lead are really not something normal "luck" can account for, it requires alot of experience to even be able to guess the general area you should be firing in over such a distance, and just as much experience to adjust your aim when you see where you actually hit assuming the target is still moving around and that distance and lateral speed keep changing.

I can only assume that since we have bullet drop we have bullet travel times, meaning you can probably actually dodge a bullet if you see the muzzle flash and they're aiming at the teensy target that is your head.

I myself am a fan of the idea of having a helmet that prevents a headshot until destroyed (good reason to keep engineers around), but leaving the face as an open target since it would take a more precise shot to hit it.

Plus, snipers are assholes, and I'm sure you'll have plenty of people in your squad who will take up the mantle of counter sniping ;D

good news i think that higby said something about not having 1 shot kills even with a head shot. thankfully he knows that the only ones who like snipers being able to 1 shot are the snipers.

[Hypevosa]

Sad, I feel feats of skill should be rewarded.

[Sirisian]

Originally Posted by Hypevosa

Sad, I feel feats of skill should be rewarded.

That's fine. Hit the target more than once and it's a skilled kill. Kind of a simple system. Hitting someone that's sitting still with a sniper in the head isn't skill. Hitting them after they take one hit and start running for cover is skill.

[Zekeen]

Don't forget that PS1 had one shot kills, it depended on the armor. General Agile Armor and up provided safety from one hit kills, but standard and infiltrators were fodder.

Now, add in the fact that we can get darklight scopes and...

[Gandhi]

Originally Posted by Hypevosa

Sad, I feel feats of skill should be rewarded.

Skip to 2:00 for an example of skill without one shots

Originally Posted by Zekeen

Don't forget that PS1 had one shot kills, it depended on the armor. General Agile Armor and up provided safety from one hit kills, but standard and infiltrators were fodder.

But nobody ran around in standard "pajamas" and infiltrators were usually ignored by snipers because they were, well, mostly invisible.

Lets just give snipers the ability to one shot each other but nobody else, problem solved

[Neurotoxin]

I say no to dual pistols, or dual anything other than guns on a MAX. To me, coordination and aim are better than rate-of-fire, and carrying 2 pistols would mean 1 less tool. Waste ammo, lose accuracy, lose a tool... all of that is a "no" in my book.

Maybe being able to operate a pistol while using a 1-handed repair tool would be an option, but you'd really only be focused on one thing or the other, so all that would do is reduce a bit of the switch-over time from pistol to tool. If we have quick-knife, then pistol + knife wouldn't really be needed.

[Hypevosa]

Originally Posted by Sirisian

That's fine. Hit the target more than once and it's a skilled kill. Kind of a simple system. Hitting someone that's sitting still with a sniper in the head isn't skill. Hitting them after they take one hit and start running for cover is skill.

It takes more skill to hit a moving target the size of pop can once at a few hundred yards than to hit a moving punching bag twice. I'd also argue it takes more skill to hit a pop can that's standing still at a thousand yards than the moving punching bag twice at the same distance unless they're constantly changing accelerations, in which case it becomes 100% luck on the second shot since you're just making a bet as to where they'll be in the second it takes your bullet to travel there.

Your 2 hit system becomes one of luck, not skill at the distances I'm hoping to reach out and touch someone's nose from, that's why I have quarrels with it. Give me a scope so zoomed in it's utterly useless at distances of 100 yards or less, ensure my rounds have a muzzle velocity so high they penetrate and don't do their max damage at close range since they just travel through without being able to impart all their energy to the target, have the recoil be enough that target re-acquisition takes time, and ensures a second shot on the same target is an unlikely luxury (I don't care if these are all certs that I have to work up to) - but give me the chance to make skill shots that make the enemy **** their pants. Give me a reason to make them hide from the start and not just long enough for their shield to go back up so they can jump to the next bit of cover.

[Talek Krell]

Originally Posted by Hypevosa

but give me the chance to make skill shots that make the enemy **** their pants. Give me a reason to make them hide from the start and not just long enough for their shield to go back up so they can jump to the next bit of cover.

Why? What makes you so special that you deserve to be able to kill somebody without actually having to fight with them? This is the trouble with one shot kills, they're only engaging for the person making them.

[Hypevosa]

Originally Posted by Talek Krell

Why? What makes you so special that you deserve to be able to kill somebody without actually having to fight with them? This is the trouble with one shot kills, they're only engaging for the person making them.

Because I've honed my abilities and spent my certs to reach such a zenith. I also should pay the massive penalty in close and mid range capabilities, as I've elaborated on. Chances are also that I spent time to get to my position, and, once I'm found out, I can't use it again for the rest of that fight. I'm also likely far away from my squad since being in the middle of a fire fight makes my specialization useless.

Why should you care if you'll just respawn in 10 seconds anyways on your nearby galaxy, squad leader, or spawn point? Why should you be afraid if you'll just get behind cover after being hit once and you'll be fine?

This is the problem with there not being a 1 hit kill ability for snipers. All it becomes is a class of kill stealers and kills stolen since there's too much time between 2 rounds going down field accurately to really make it effective. There's little ability for area denial since people will just hop from cover to cover and eat a round to move forward. It also means that any counter sniper will be utterly ineffective since the rival will just move after being pegged once.

If it's 2 hit kills, I guess I'll just find a partner and we'll practice putting rounds into people together - it'll just be easier since we'll have a bigger target and double the ability to hit after someone starts running, and it'll mean any counter sniper will have 2 people to deal with instead of one. I like teamwork and all, but I'd rather have my play involve more skill.

[Bravix]

Originally Posted by Hypevosa

Well, in terms of its "place" the dual wielded pistols would likely be a better option for close range due to the usually higher damage we'd expect them to do relative to the SMGs. So hitting with every shot would mean killing someone faster than they could with an SMG at that range. The shotgun would fall under hit or miss since it's likely close, if not a 1 hit KO at the range the pistols are highly effective.

The reason I gave other benefits was to further solidify a place though. It may not have the sheer stopping power of a shotgun, or the knowledge that dragging the reticle across someone does at least SOME damage like with an SMG, but it's somewhere in between those two, and it also offers the best mobility and longest skirmishing ability comparatively (due to the 2.5x ammo).

Since when do Pistols do more damage then SMG's (realistically)?

Just because CoD makes pistols do more damage than SMGs, doesn't make it always true.

For example, 9mm pistol versus a MP5. Both use 9mm ammo. Same stopping power. Except the SMG is more accurate and can fire full auto.

[Hypevosa]

Originally Posted by Bravix

Since when do Pistols do more damage then SMG's (realistically)?

Just because CoD makes pistols do more damage than SMGs, doesn't make it always true.

For example, 9mm pistol versus a MP5. Both use 9mm ammo. Same stopping power. Except the SMG is more accurate and can fire full auto.

I'm not stupid, I'm just assuming we're using larger caliber rounds for pistols - otherwise SMGs would be too powerful game balance wise (though realistic) and pistols would be too weak and utterly useless in terms of game balance.

[Hmr85]

No, lets be done with this thread and let it die a slow and painful death.

[Bravix]

Originally Posted by Hypevosa

I'm not stupid, I'm just assuming we're using larger caliber rounds for pistols - otherwise SMGs would be too powerful game balance wise (though realistic) and pistols would be too weak and utterly useless in terms of game balance.

Pistols aren't supposed to be a primary weapon though, they SHOULD be weaker than other weapons. They're pistols.

That doesn't mean they shouldn't be useful, just not AS useful.

[ItsTheSheppy]

I don't see any problems with it. Could be fun, as long as pistols aren't Halo 1 OP.