What do you think of this? (Class System) - PlanetSide Universe
PSU Social Facebook Twitter Twitter YouTube Steam TwitchTV
PlanetSide Universe
PSU: Now with 300% more gibs!
Home Forum Chat Wiki Social AGN PS2 Stats
Notices
Go Back   PlanetSide Universe > PlanetSide Discussions > PlanetSide 2 Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 2009-10-22, 08:07 AM   [Ignore Me] #1
Nubcake
Private
 
Post What do you think of this? (Class System)


First damn post on this forum and I have to do it in a new thread. I'm going to need a flame suit, or fifty.


-----WARNING-----
This is a bloody long post!
-----WARNING-----


Found out by sheer luck that a new PS is in the works last night and almost jumping about it, then I thought that it will probably make a mess of university.
So I was bored as hell and had a random idea knocking around in my head for something that suddenly went "Hang on! This could work in PS!". Common sense said no, sheer dumb stupidity said see what people think.

I've tried to run around the forum and find quotes that back up this idea so I hope nobody minds if I use their words.

Originally Posted by DviddLeff
1. Too many cert points to spend on fast transport (On what killed Gal Drops)
Originally Posted by Ait'al
The game doesn't revolve around it if people figured out how to hold continents again and had roaming tank columns or had every figured out how to use better recon to defend one after the took it. People just suck so bad they could never get the cooler parts of the game. (On indoor fights)
Originally Posted by naeadil
I would have to agree with other posters in saying that Planetside has truly become session based. When I utilized the command system early and put together some of the very first 'raids,'the game was truly a simulated war. Massive. Commanders were almost playing a macro heavy RTS game. I'm not saying that small micromanagement based squads are bad, but you actually had the option to play with these massive armies.

Battle Rank:
It worked out. Certification points need to be scarce. Having a ton of certification points was bad for the game. Why? Because if you had a large amount of points, you could do almost anything on your own. Having low cert points helped contribute to the MMO factor. You needed that solid Medic, or that Galaxy pilot to get from Point A to Point B, etc.
Originally Posted by EVILoHOMER
I never see anyone use them against the Vanu and that is being there are too many AA options and they're too easy to access.
AA fire is needed in the game or Aircrafts would be too powerful but I think there needs to be a balance that makes fewer people have it.

I was a Max and this basically made me useless and I don't see it fair that it can lock onto Maxes. The main problem is EVERYONE can have access to these weapons very easily because people have too many certs and things are so cheap.

- Again talking about Max's they're pretty weak and pointless now. Everyone has AV weapons to take them out easily and they don't do much damage to people anymore so it takes forever to take them out and you usually end up dead first.

This is the Exo Suit (or whatever its called) and then a Heavy Weapon, AV weapon and HEalth + Armour repair. This build can take on people and vehicles (Aircraft too if you're TR) and you can last forever repairing yourself. I find it so overpowered because it covers all bases and everyone is using it.

Damn, that's long enough for everything as is.

The Problem

The Zerg in Planetside (PS) is a force to be reckoned with, a massive wave of enemies that simply rolls over everything in its path. The Zerg however is not the problem, quite the opposite; the Zerg means that there are the large scale battles that were envisioned when PS was at the concept stage. The problem lies in the name itself, Zerg; like its namesake a Zerg does not display much in the way of team play or thought-process; it is, for all practical purposes, a steamroller without a driver. This is due to the fact that many players have become self-sufficient due to their certifications and this is the issue that must be addressed.

Therefore, in short, the problem is that players have become too diverse and each individual has become something of a Swiss-army knife in their role flexibility.

A Possible Solution?


Naturally it would be completely illogical to return to the standard RPG-style practice of shoe-horning every player into a set class that is designed for a certain style of play and forcing them to stick to with it. It was the sheer flexibility that made PS appeal to such a large player base as each player was able to tailor their avatar to their unique play-style as opposed to trying to select between (for example) a medic or engineer when the player would have opted for a distinctly support based play-style that encompassed elements of both roles.

My proposed solution is hopefully a step in the right direction to removing the Swiss-army soldier and promoting team actions in PSN.

When starting a game a player should be asked to select a ‘role’ to play within the game. This role then allows the use of certain certs, implants and abilities which would be unavailable to other roles. Alternately a selected ‘role’ would change the price of certs dependent upon whether the cert was in line with the ‘role’. This therefore means that it becomes either impossible or highly difficult and time-consuming to create an avatar that is able to perform every role within the game. It also avoids show-horning the player into selecting a distinct class which limits their possible styles of play and retains a degree of the cert flexibility that assists in the appeal of PS and PSN.

NOTE: The ‘role’ proposal does NOT affect the accumulation of CEP up to CR4.

Game Alterations


The advantage of this proposal is that it does not require a complete overhaul of the entire game’s mechanics and instead chiefly alters the certification system with other minor alterations.
However, for the examples of how the system could operate below I’ve made some alterations that could have to be implemented into the game. In these I have also used the PS systems as a base for each.

My only critical alteration is the insertion of a new armour set into the game. It could fit either side of the reinforced armour in the game creating a tree that possibly looked something as directly below.

Planetside
Pyjamas --> Stealth Suit --> Agile --> Rexo --> MAX

Proposed
Pyjamas --> Stealth Suit --> Light --> Medium --> Heavy --> MAX

Other alterations are minor alterations such as the implementation of humvee style vehicles which would be available for all classes, expansions to the CR abilities and the implementation of a new OS formed from a small barrage of Relativistic Kill Vehicles (RKVs) AKA Rods from God. A possibility is to also implement further specialisation in certs. For example instead of becoming certified only in medium assault I could then choose to spend further cert points on this which would increase my avatar’s proficiency with med assault weapons. This could mean a larger magazine capacity, increased damage, smaller cone of fire or a combination of the above implemented to various levels.


Are There Problems?


Yes.

I’ve never even dipped my toe into the murky depths of game development but I have an inkling that this would be a difficult and time-consuming system to implement, especially during the balancing phase and it is likely that at the end of the day the players will find a ‘role’ (such as Cavalry) which acts something like the Swiss-army model that caused problems in the first place.

There will evidently be players who would be disgruntled by the implementation of the proposal since it would alter their play style. For example, a number of current PS snipers, myself included, are also certified adv. Medics and spend time sniping and reviving since generally medics are hard to come by up on the hills. The implementation of the proposal will obviously create a issue in that a change of play style will be enforced that would be detrimental to the sniper as any adv medics would be at the front where they are more likely to get revivals than with the snipers.

As mentioned above, there is also the risk of a disproportionate amount of players choosing a ‘role’ that perhaps acts as a Swiss-army knife, unbalancing the team play element and returning the problem to square 1. A further issue is the opposite, a player selects a ‘role’ and then decides that it does not fit their play-style. This can be fixed by, similar to the cert system, allowing a player to re-role themselves with an associated time limit, such as a month.

This is also hardly a fix for some of the problems that are present in the game. This proposal skirts conveniently around lasher spam, mosquito hot drops, biffers (thank god they aren’t in PSN!) and other issues.

In Summary

The ‘roles’ system is an attempt to remove the ‘Swiss army player’ and promote teamwork within the PS Universe with minimal adverse effects to the current system. It is also designed to do this without the need to overhaul the entire game system and instead focuses mainly on the certification system with minor adjustments to other systems.
It does not force players into a fixed RPG-style class and instead makes the player select a vaguely defined class which has minor limitations imposed on it, such as limiting unrelated certifications or imposing a greater cost upon them.

The system does require a great deal of effort to implement and is unlikely to be universally accepted and there is the risk of a ‘role’ becoming the ‘Swiss army model’ or gaining a disproportionate amount of the player population.

The system is ultimately designed to attempt to address a major issue in PS and create a system for PSN that does not carry over the flaws and evolves the certification system.


Possible examples in post 2. Was only 8000 characters over!
Nubcake is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-22, 08:10 AM   [Ignore Me] #2
Nubcake
Private
 
Question Re: What do you think of this? (Class System)


Sorry to double post AND having to make you read more.

Examples

Of note before reading this section is the fact that some certs are universal and are available to all roles. Examples of this are medium assault, light vehicles (which would include some basic ATVs and a humvee style vehicle and the ANT – come on ANT races!), basic medical and engineering are also included in this. This is also an assumption taken with a number of abilities and implants. Unless specifically stated all classes are able to certify in light and medium armour.

The Grunt AKA Red Shirt – Let’s face it, these guys might not see the end of the episode so there’s no need to teach them how to fly or how to drive. They just need to know how to shoot. The grunt could be the general ‘everyone starts here’ role. A grunt would be able to certify only in medium and heavy armour for protection and would have access to heavy weapons such as AT launchers and the empire specific heavy weapons (jackhammer, lasher, chain gun). The grunt would also face no limitations on implants.

Storm Trooper AKA Tank – This role would be designed to carry on the niche filled by the MAXes and would be the only ‘role’ able to certify in them and, similar to the grunt, would only be permitted to cert in either heavy or MAX armour; they would also be able to cert in heavy weaponry. As the tank is also designed to use the heavy stuff in an arsenal it would be interesting to see if role specific weaponry could be implemented here such as the lost NC flamer or heavy MGs. Could face limitations on implants such as second wind, personal shield etc. to prevent them becoming too overpowered.

Engineer
– This would be the only role (apart from drivers/pilots/crew) that would be able to make use of the full sized glue-gun. They would also be one of a few classes allowed access to the ACE and its entire repertoire of fun. Could possibly have access to a passive implant that permits them to detect ACE deployables.

Drivers/Pilots/Crew – Could possibly be split into ground and air-based roles but I am hesitant to force too much of a specialisation. This is the only other class with access to a glue gun and the only class with full access to all vehicles and aircraft. It is of debate whether they are permitted access to medium armour and weaponry in order to try and keep the role balanced. Most vehicles would however require a maximum of light armour to pilot and medium armour to man any gunners’ positions.

Commander
– Most of the other roles would only be able to gain enough CEP to level to CR4 but only the commander ‘role’ can level to CR5. This ‘role’ would also be the only one with access to some of the specialist SL features. CR4 would permit access to an RKV strike (for all ‘roles’) but the OS would remain only for the commander ‘role’ and retain its current format. In the map menu they would also have access to expanded drawing tools from CR4. As the commander would supposedly be leading they would be able to place pre-designed markers on the map such as flags, crosshairs, arrows, etc. Could also be the only ‘role’ apart from pilots to have access to aircraft, in this case think a mosquito given an OD of pro-plus (basically tablets of pure caffeine) and then a mug of coffee, or ten. It would only have a small armament and armour but it would be designed to get from A to B faster than yesterday. One idea for a CUD ability based roughly on the BF2 squad spawning system is to allow CR5s to call down a temporary spawn point limited by either the number of spawns or a timer and this can be locked to squad, platoon or outfit or left unlocked. It would act to get squads into the thick of it quickly and keep them there until an AMS or equivalent can be brought up.

Cavalry
– This is the ‘role’ that I am most hesitant about since it skirts dangerously close to the Swiss-army soldier that this proposal is attempting to fix. The Cavalry are designed to be shock troopers either being the first to respond to a possible attack or exploit a possible break. Cavalry would have access to AT launchers and basic hacking and ACE functions but would be limited by medium armour and would generally be designed to act quickly. They would also have to rely on pilots to ferry them around but could possibly have access to a reaver type aircraft or the phantom-like galaxy gunship.

Universal Soldier – In the event that players do not respond well if the proposal is implement the universal ‘role’ is activated by dev command and simply forces all present and future avatars to the ‘role. It is a representation of the current unlimited cert system and could also be used for testing and giving the devs an identifiable avatar unavailable to any other players.


Hopefully that wasn't too much of a text overload for you. It sure as hell looks like it from this perspective. Any criticism, hate, confused looks, etc. welcome.
Nubcake is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-24, 06:29 AM   [Ignore Me] #3
Tikuto
Major
 
Tikuto's Avatar
 
Re: What do you think of this? (Class System)


Intruiging.




It could be made much, much simpler. Each armor has more limitations than they do already: A MAX cannot drive a vehicle, a REXO cannot pilot a aircraft, a Infiltration suit must not break wind, etc...

In PlanetSide NEXT added limitations and even new advantages would suffice, I think,
  • like REXO having a Darklight vision and Advanced Targetting features on their helmet and are granted use of Heavy weapons
  • Infiltration suit also having Darklight helmet (but can only use when uncloaked) and a new intergrated "External Bionic" to boost melee strength, weapon and accessory restrictions
  • and the standard Agile suit with something else while also being a more generic role with a bigger inventory capacity.
  • NEW: Driver's suit with Advanced Targetting and Satelite Navigation helmet? with more access to vehicles than others?
  • "Pyjamas" with a different concept and look as if they're specially designed for Spawn Tubes. When only wearing these "pyjamas" the player is able to respawn much quicker. An under-layer bodily protection which primarly protects the wearer from Spawn Tube problems.
  • All MAXs having a Personal Shield renamed as Epoxy Nano-Hardener, all able to fly like VS MAXs and their own unique ability (Definately change NC's shield ability). VS MAX being most significantly agile, TR MAX able to passively pour-out excessive damage and NC MAX able to withstand most damage with their enhance Epoxy Nano-Hardener.


Titles like "Storm Strooper" and "Cavalry" would be earned from selected the Certificates, achieving enough kills and so-on from those certificates (Achievements) and a length of time your character owns those certificates (Not instantly changing title, but still able to change role).
It's a whole sense of achievement and tells other players what you're specialized or specializing in, and that personal sense of individualism or whatever that this thread is all about, I think.

Last edited by Tikuto; 2009-10-25 at 05:08 AM.
Tikuto is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-24, 04:55 PM   [Ignore Me] #4
Nubcake
Private
 
Re: What do you think of this? (Class System)


Thanks for reading it all, it wasn't exactly the shortest thing ever.

Originally Posted by Tikuto View Post
Intruiging.
Thanks. I was sort of worried that it was a bit stupid when I threw this idea out into the world.


It could be made much, much simpler.
Yeah, sorry. If I do something it generally has to stop off at every other letter before going from A to B. Each armor has more limitations than they do already: A MAX cannot drive a vehicle, a REXO cannot pilot a aircraft, a[Infiltration suit must not break wind, etc...

In PlanetSide NEXT added limitations and even new advantages would suffice, I think,
  • like REXO having a Darklight vision and Advanced Targetting features on their helmet and are granted use of Heavy weapons
    I'm not sure about giving rexo darklight. Considering that its almost a required armour cert to have, if the devs stuck with the current armour layout I think that this would go a good way to murdering the infiltrator as a playable class bar the hardcore few. I don't complain about plugging in adv. targeting however.
  • Infiltration suit also having Darklight helmet (but can only use when uncloaked) and a new intergrated "External Bionic" to boost melee strength, weapon and accessory restrictions
    No complaints here. But you can't fit a hamster in the backpack space they have, maybe a slight increase?.
  • and the standard Agile suit with something else while also being a more generic role with a bigger inventory capacity.
  • NEW: Driver's suit with Advanced Targetting and Satelite Navigation helmet? with more access to vehicles than others?
    I don't think there's much need for sat nav, you simply throw down a waypoint close to where you want to go and just head for that. What about surge instead? Theoretically (yes, I said it) a driver shouldn't be heavily armed/armoured -that's the vehicle's job - so maybe in the event they lose their veh they should be able to shoot off away from danger.
  • "Pyjamas" with a different concept and look as if they're specially designed for Spawn Tubes. When only wearing these "pyjamas" the player is able to respawn much quicker. An under-layer bodily protection which primarly protects the wearer from Spawn Tube problems.
    I'm not sure about changing the PJs any. They only time you ever seriously see them getting used is if the equipment terms go down and noone can grab armour. Personally, I would always choose a bit more armour than a faster spawn.


Titles like "Storm Strooper" and "Cavalry" would be earned from selected the Certificates, achieving enough kills and so-on from those certificates (Achievements) and a length of time your character owns those certificates (Not instantly changing title, but still able to change role).
I just threw the titles in so people could associate what I was putting forward with something generic. Tying the role in with the achievements system is a good idea as it does give the player something to work towards and doesn't make them go on a pointless trek to get it (*cough* Biffer *cough*).
But I meant for roles to partially restrict players from the start though and try to prevent them getting all the 'universal soldier' certs (rexo, HA, AV, Med, Eng) and promoting players to work together to make something click - think of raids you went on with outfits old timers and remember how that worked, I want to try and get more of that. So whilst I do like the idea of pegging them with achievements having them achieve the role after having the certs sort of defeats to point of making them roles and would better be suited to an achievement of performing the role.

It's a whole sense of achievement and tells other players what you're specialized or specializing in, and that personal sense of individualism or whatever that this thread is all about, I think.
Heh, sorry again for making it so long winded and complicated. Planetside lets the player have a great sense of individualism and I want to carry that over in this. At the same time I wanted to try and fix the problem of the universal player as referenced to EVILoHOMER in my first post by trying to loosely enforce limitations on players without affecting gameplay and individualism too much.
I also agree that the titles can give a sense of achievement, I never meant for them to be displayed openly to the world but I wonder if, to increase the sense of achievement, they get a small trinket to wear (as long as cavalry get Col. Kilgore's cowboy hat)
Just a note. I have noticed that whilst I said I wanted to get rid or severely limit the 'universal soldier' type of build I've basically left that option in with the hypothetical 'Grunt' and 'Cavalry' roles. I only noticed earlier. I'm not going to edit the original post, I want to see how this thing evolves. I will say 'Bugger!' and note that yes, it is a rather major error. So split the grunt into 2 roles one with HA the other with AV and cavalry, probably remove the HA and AV but allow the use of rocklets and thumpers. Again, oops.
Nubcake is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-25, 05:19 AM   [Ignore Me] #5
Tikuto
Major
 
Tikuto's Avatar
 
Re: What do you think of this? (Class System)


Originally Posted by Nubcake and Tikuto View Post
  • like REXO having a Darklight--
    I'm not sure about giving rexo darklight. Considering that its almost a required armour cert to have, if the devs stuck with the current armour layout I think that this would go a good way to murdering the infiltrator as a playable class bar the hardcore few. I don't complain about plugging in adv. targeting however.
    In PlanetSide NEXT I expect Infiltration suits would be a hell lot more fun yet remain balanced. By having Darklight as a helmet feature for both REXO and MAXs, which can be temporarily disabled with EMP, may help maintain balance. I think it's an awesome yet balanced alteration from PS1.
  • Infiltration suit also having Darklight helmet (but can only use when uncloaked) and a new intergrated "External Bionic" to boost melee strength and movement speed ("surge"), weapon and accessory restrictions
    No complaints here. But you can't fit a hamster in the backpack space they have, maybe a slight increase?. Maybe they will, and maybe those armor-restrctions would apply that I mentioned in previous post, and so I would accept Infiltrations suits having more inventory space than they do in PlanetSide1 ONLY under certain conditions.
  • All MAXs having a Personal Shield renamed as Epoxy Nano-Hardener, all able to fly like VS MAXs and their own unique ability (definately change NC's shield ability). VS MAX being most significantly agile, TR MAX able to actively pour-out excessive damage by entrenching and instantly entrenching after free-falling, and NC MAX able to withstand most damage with their enhance Epoxy Nano-Hardener.
Epoxy Nano-Hardener - a personal shield for mechanical and metallic armory which is applied on the surface and activated from an energy source using complex circuitry. It hardens their material and excess energy creates a surface-shield.

Originally Posted by Nubcake View Post
Just a note. I have noticed that whilst I said I wanted to get rid or severely limit the 'universal soldier' type of build I've basically left that option in with the hypothetical 'Grunt' and 'Cavalry' roles. I only noticed earlier. I'm not going to edit the original post, I want to see how this thing evolves. I will say 'Bugger!' and note that yes, it is a rather major error. So split the grunt into 2 roles one with HA the other with AV and cavalry, probably remove the HA and AV but allow the use of rocklets and thumpers. Again, oops.
Maybe something new would appear in PlanetSide. They may work towards a role or create their own new roles/titles. At the end of the day I very much doubt I'd care about having a title - just my role will do!

Last edited by Tikuto; 2009-10-25 at 05:40 AM.
Tikuto is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-25, 01:45 PM   [Ignore Me] #6
Furret
First Sergeant
 
Misc Info
Re: What do you think of this? (Class System)


I don't know if i understood what you wrote correctly, but it looks as if you want to force people into certain classes.
Personally, I think that everyone should learn to play by the 11 certifications you get as a reserve. And since this thread seems to be mostly on certifications, I wont get into any of my other ideas for PS Next.

There's no real need to change the certs, or the way that they're bought.

I haven't played in a while, but I'm assuming the certs are all the same value that they were before the reserves were cut.

1) 11 certifications for a reserve, 11 certifications for a subscriber (but access to more exotic weaponry, or weapon packs at a cheaper price)

For example: A reserve (free) player could get medium assault, heavy assault, a Mosquito, and a Reaver.

That's 11 points.

A subscriber on the other hand, could buy a Heavy Assault Pack (medium/heavy assault) for five certs, and a Air Assault Pack (Mosquito and Reaver) for four certs. Then maybe a flamethrower (Subscriber only) for two certs.

You still only use 11, but since you have access to weapon/vehicle packs, you can get more for your certs.

(Buying a Heavy Assault Pack wouldn't give you the Medium Assault certification, so if you wanted to have med assault, heavy assault, and sniper, you'd have to buy them seperately.)

EDIT: Also, SOE could add in certification packs, like others had been suggesting, and for 11 certifications, you can get a certain role, that maybe costs 12 -14 certs, but it's a package deal.

Maybe something called "Mobile Medic"

Medic and Advanced Medic (5)
Light Scout (5)
ATV (1)
Medium Assault (2)

Total is 13, but you have to use your 11 certs to buy the whole pack.

Last edited by Furret; 2009-10-25 at 01:49 PM. Reason: Added a response to previous ideas
Furret is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-25, 03:18 PM   [Ignore Me] #7
Nubcake
Private
 
Re: What do you think of this? (Class System)


Originally Posted by Tikuto
In PlanetSide NEXT I expect Infiltration suits would be a hell lot more fun yet remain balanced. By having Darklight as a helmet feature for both REXO and MAXs, which can be temporarily disabled with EMP, may help maintain balance. I think it's an awesome yet balanced alteration from PS1.
If it can be knocked out that's fair enough. No complaints.

Originally Posted by Tikuto
Maybe they will, and maybe those armor-restrictions would apply that I mentioned in previous post, and so I would accept Infiltrations suits having more inventory space than they do in PlanetSide1 ONLY under certain conditions.
Could you go into more detail about the conditions? Just curious what your thoughts are on infils.

Originally Posted by Tikuto
* All MAXs having a Personal Shield renamed as Epoxy Nano-Hardener, all able to fly like VS MAXs and their own unique ability (definately change NC's shield ability). VS MAX being most significantly agile, TR MAX able to actively pour-out excessive damage by entrenching and instantly entrenching after free-falling, and NC MAX able to withstand most damage with their enhance Epoxy Nano-Hardener.

Epoxy Nano-Hardener - a personal shield for mechanical and metallic armory which is applied on the surface and activated from an energy source using complex circuitry. It hardens their material and excess energy creates a surface-shield.
I think that if all MAXes were to be given jump jets to the extent that the VS have them now would not be brilliant, don't ask me why its just a personal opinion. If they did get them I'd say tone it down so that they can make it onto the base wall on a single 'charge' and that was it for a while. As for the TR MAX entrenching, if I recall it normally becomes a massive bullet magnet if it downs anchors so give it a defensive boost ONLY when deployed. As for deploying instantly when it hits the ground, I'm against. If I'm a MAX straight out of the gal I want to get the heck out of the line of fire to some sort of cover and if I deploy I suddenly can't move and have a very limited arc of fire. I say nay to this little bit.

Instead of giving everyone a shield why not just buff the armour on all MAXes instead? Can't comment on the NC shield since I only ever played NC and never MAX but something needs to be done about the abilities of VS and TR MAXes.

Originally Posted by Furret
don't know if i understood what you wrote correctly, but it looks as if you want to force people into certain classes.
Personally, I think that everyone should learn to play by the 11 certifications you get as a reserve. And since this thread seems to be mostly on certifications, I wont get into any of my other ideas for PS Next.

Yes and no to the first sentence. I want to insert classes but keep individualism. I sort of went off on two ideas in the original post and I'm afraid I can't do simple very well but I'll try.
If I choose the 'role' Medic from:
Idea 1 I can only cert certain types of armour. My options for certs are limited. I cannot cert HA, AV, most vehicles. BUT (at least I hope) I still have enough certs to choose from that I cannot cert everything. Therefore I become a class in the sense that my certs limit me to specialising in a certain thing but I remain individual in the sense that I still have some choice in the way I choose certs.
Idea 2 Certs that I would have access to in Idea 1 become cheaper, promoting me to cert related to the 'role' that I've chosen. I have access to all certs but unrelated certs that I would not have access to in Idea 1 (HA, AV, etc) are more expensive again promoting me to follow the 'role' that I selected.

Also, post your ideas! It's always interesting to see what people come up with. Promotes discussion too.


There's no real need to change the certs, or the way that they're bought.

I haven't played in a while, but I'm assuming the certs are all the same value that they were before the reserves were cut.

1) 11 certifications for a reserve, 11 certifications for a subscriber (but access to more exotic weaponry, or weapon packs at a cheaper price)

For example: A reserve (free) player could get medium assault, heavy assault, a Mosquito, and a Reaver.

That's 11 points.

A subscriber on the other hand, could buy a Heavy Assault Pack (medium/heavy assault) for five certs, and a Air Assault Pack (Mosquito and Reaver) for four certs. Then maybe a flamethrower (Subscriber only) for two certs.

You still only use 11, but since you have access to weapon/vehicle packs, you can get more for your certs.

(Buying a Heavy Assault Pack wouldn't give you the Medium Assault certification, so if you wanted to have med assault, heavy assault, and sniper, you'd have to buy them seperately.)

EDIT: Also, SOE could add in certification packs, like others had been suggesting, and for 11 certifications, you can get a certain role, that maybe costs 12 -14 certs, but it's a package deal.

Maybe something called "Mobile Medic"

Medic and Advanced Medic (5)
Light Scout (5)
ATV (1)
Medium Assault (2)

Total is 13, but you have to use your 11 certs to buy the whole pack.

That's a damn sight simpler than what I proposed. I like the idea since it certainly is easier to implement that what I've put down. But the problem is that it would still allow players to build up the 'universal soldier' build that I want to prevent and by bundling stuff together it makes it even easier.
__________________
This has been an announcement from:

Nubcake
The Master of Pointless Twaddle
Nubcake is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-25, 09:14 PM   [Ignore Me] #8
Furret
First Sergeant
 
Misc Info
Re: What do you think of this? (Class System)


True, but with only 11 certs it'd be hard to be a 'swiss army knife player'

Actually, if you could give me an example, using 11 certs and a few fairly priced packages, I could maybe modify my plan
Furret is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-09, 03:18 PM   [Ignore Me] #9
DviddLeff
Lieutenant Colonel
 
DviddLeff's Avatar
 
Re: What do you think of this? (Class System)


While a class guide for certs would be helpful to new players, the thing I loved about early PS is that you can simply recert and alter your play style, either be a specialist in something or be a jack of all trades, but master of none.

Locking people into classes is too restrictive in my eyes.

Personally I do not like cheaper packs of certs as it usually gives players too much versatility.

What the game needs is a simple reduction in cert points; the first few months saw immense teamwork and bonds forming between outfit members (my outfit is still together 6-7 years on, despite the fact we have not had a MMO to play properly for 3 years). This reliance was formed because we had to rely on others to get a full spread of certs, during the reactivation I had something like 27 certs to spend; I had advanced medic, engineer and advanced hacking; I should only be able to get one of those at a time, let alone get those and AV, Air Support, CR5, Sniping, etc, etc at the same time.
__________________
DviddLeff is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-09, 04:17 PM   [Ignore Me] #10
JackEarthrider
Corporal
 
Re: What do you think of this? (Class System)


I dont really like the idea of locked classes because it kills some of the fun factor when you know that there is only certain combinations you can do.

I think simply restricting the number of certs (lets say to 20) would be more than sufficent to force people to choose what they want, and what they must do without.

Now I think another way you could go about doing this is to make 3 slots for perks (ala Call of duty style) which make it so that your character has some sort of niche to it without instantly being OP.

Some of these perks would be obvious (faster foot speed, faster reload, more resitance to damage, faster rate of fire, more inventory space, faster healing, faster repair, faster vehicle speed, more vehicle health, etc etc etc).

The point would be to make sure that their were a ton of possiblities, but only like 3 could be selected. That way someone could greatly enhance their "role" by selecting certain perks without suddenly becoming good at everything.

Of course you would want to make sure these were only things you could implement at the sanc (to keep people from rotating it all the time) and you would want a cooldown like on the certs for rotation (to keep ppl from becoming the jack of all trades guy).

Anyway, I think thats an interesting solution that would add more dynamic and character strategy without making veterans OP and at the same time help suppress the "jack-of-all-trades" team killing attitude.
JackEarthrider is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-09, 04:24 PM   [Ignore Me] #11
DviddLeff
Lieutenant Colonel
 
DviddLeff's Avatar
 
Re: What do you think of this? (Class System)


Jack, that's already in the game:

Originally Posted by JackEarthrider View Post
Now I think another way you could go about doing this is to make 3 slots for Edit -Implants which make it so that your character has some sort of niche to it without instantly being OP.

Some of these Edit -Implants would be obvious (faster foot speed, faster reload, more resitance to damage, faster rate of fire, more inventory space, faster healing, faster repair, faster vehicle speed, more vehicle health, etc etc etc).

The point would be to make sure that their were a ton of possiblities, but only like 3 could be selected. That way someone could greatly enhance their "role" by selecting certain Edit -Implants without suddenly becoming good at everything.

Of course you would want to make sure these were only things you could implement at the sanc (to keep people from rotating it all the time) and you would want a cooldown like on the certs for rotation (to keep ppl from becoming the jack of all trades guy).

Anyway, I think thats an interesting solution that would add more dynamic and character strategy without making veterans OP and at the same time help suppress the "jack-of-all-trades" team killing attitude.
Could do with a few more ideas for them though, but its already there.
__________________
DviddLeff is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-09, 04:27 PM   [Ignore Me] #12
JackEarthrider
Corporal
 
Re: What do you think of this? (Class System)


well ok, but for right now the implants don't really enhance certain classes their mostly all around buffs that help everything.

I'm talking about things that help One type of player, like faster heal/repair speed or less recoil on automatic weapons, or faster reload speed.

Im basically going for something more in-depth that adds more to the game. As it stands now the implants are nice to have, but when it comes right down to it, you can do without em most times.
JackEarthrider is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-09, 05:01 PM   [Ignore Me] #13
DviddLeff
Lieutenant Colonel
 
DviddLeff's Avatar
 
Re: What do you think of this? (Class System)


Then surely the key is making more implants that are useful for specific roles, rather than making a new system when the old one can do the job?

Very simply to make new implants I am sure, especially ones that effect stats like reload speed, recoil, etc.

I mean off the top of my head we could see implants for:

Steady Hands: Less recoil
Quick Draw: Faster weapon swapping and reload speed
Nanite Conduits: Faster support tool effectiveness.
Vehicle Interface: Allows the user access to more data when driving, seeing predicted trajectories for other vehicles, allowing easier targeting. Reduced lock on times when in a vehicle.
__________________
DviddLeff is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-10, 02:51 PM   [Ignore Me] #14
JackEarthrider
Corporal
 
Re: What do you think of this? (Class System)


Alright, point taken. I was just trying to think of a creative approach. Either way I would say more is needed in the way of implant variety/function in order to encourage more variable and fun gameplay.

And there needs to be a lower cap on BR as to prevent "jack-of-all-trades" teamkilling gameplay.
JackEarthrider is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2009-12-10, 04:31 PM   [Ignore Me] #15
DviddLeff
Lieutenant Colonel
 
DviddLeff's Avatar
 
Re: What do you think of this? (Class System)


Totally agree on lowering the cert point cap, everyone should have enough to specialise in 1 or 2 areas, and then be average at everything else.

Perhaps make support experience count only towards support certifications?

Say have caps of:
BR15
SR5

But bear in mind that command rank would cost cert points to get, and SR points could only be spent on support certs, encouraging everyone to have a support role (even if they do only use it to help themselves). BR cert points could still be spent on support certs however.
__________________
DviddLeff is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply
  PlanetSide Universe > PlanetSide Discussions > PlanetSide 2 Discussion

Bookmarks

Wiki Activity Read More >
Discord

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:31 AM.

Content © 2002-2013, PlanetSide-Universe.com, All rights reserved.
PlanetSide and the SOE logo are registered trademarks of Sony Online Entertainment Inc. © 2004 Sony Online Entertainment Inc. All rights reserved.
All other trademarks or tradenames are properties of their respective owners.
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.