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Old 2013-07-01, 10:48 PM   [Ignore Me] #16
typhaon
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Re: ESF Update Plans via Kevmo


Are you planning to make it significantly easier to maintain a lock?

All things being equal - no changes to flight mechanics, no changes to anything else -and just adding the changes you listed - I can't fathom a situation where someone would ever see the missiles as an effective choice.

I just tested my rotary canon and I unloaded the whole thing in less than 3 seconds.... with 5 rounds added.

At some extreme range? OK, maybe... but then we're back to the firing a pixel at a pixel and trying to keep your reticle on the target pixel. Just between you and me... that's a crummy mechanic that isn't much fun...

Missiles sure need a change - but I'm not sure this is it.

Maybe if ESF's had a 2nd seat and that guy was in charge of maintaining a laser lock after the missile was fired... also got to run some other countermeasures/put out fires or whatever (no I'm not talking about the ridiculous Harasser repairer).... that could be fun. Leave gun-only/dumbfire ESFs as still an option for solo warriors... but allow a configuration that is more dangerous and durable for teams.

At the very least it would get rid of the silly mechanic of chasing your missile to the target - WHEN YOU COULD JUST BE SHOOTING THEM INSTEAD.

Keep working. I have faith.
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Old 2013-07-01, 10:56 PM   [Ignore Me] #17
SternLX
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Re: ESF Update Plans via Kevmo


Originally Posted by typhaon View Post
At the very least it would get rid of the silly mechanic of chasing your missile to the target - WHEN YOU COULD JUST BE SHOOTING THEM INSTEAD.

Keep working. I have faith.
Wait what? did I miss something? Are the current Fire and forget A2A missles going away? I often fire away a missile and follow it in with rotory blazing up the target. And sometimes its the missile that finishes off the target after all my bullets riddled the target.

If this mechanic is going away then Cert Refunds can't come soon enough. I will never fly a Scythe again.
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Old 2013-07-01, 11:02 PM   [Ignore Me] #18
Mordelicius
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Re: ESF Update Plans via Kevmo


They have to fix the base AA turret bug where it won't register hits at all, no matter how you point at an aircraft. It's as if the sights have been moved but it's still visually firing where it should.

This bug has been around since GU6 or 7. I thought they broke the AA on one of my old GU feedback thread. The turret will revert once it is destroyed and repaired again. I don't know how the bug is triggered but once it hits, that turret will be useless and players will simply abandon them.
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Old 2013-07-01, 11:45 PM   [Ignore Me] #19
CrankyTRex
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Re: ESF Update Plans via Kevmo


Not a fan of losing the fire and forget A2A missile. What's the point of having them if you have to maintain the lock the whole time? You might as well just use rocket pods instead.

I can't see any reason to use A2A missiles in that instance unless they are extremely high speed, high damage. The whole advantage to having them was being able to lock on, fire it, and then switch back to guns to continue doing damage while it was in flight, or lock on a target fleeing into dangerous airspace for one last shot at finishing them before you had to turn back.

If that change happens, I want my certs back since that is a very different weapon from what I purchased.

Don't know about the mass driver either. You can already hit with the regular nose cannons from quite a significant distance so I can only see this thing becoming the absolute bane of a Lib pilot's existence. They're going to be getting hit from everywhere and having no way to escape it.

Love the additions to knowing what is locked on and having it on the minimap though.

Also I share the reservations about the sum total of the changes really widening the gap between newbs and aces.
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Old 2013-07-02, 12:02 AM   [Ignore Me] #20
typhaon
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Re: ESF Update Plans via Kevmo


Sniper guns on ESFs sound hilariously bad for Lib pilots - I agree.

The overall changes to missiles and cannons seem designed to make the air game more inaccessible for the masses.

The XP change is an obviously good one.


You know... one of the best times in this game (for air fun) was the early beta when lock-ons had silly range... ESFs had a small timer and low resource costs... and ground AA wasn't this omnipotent shield.

Yes - everyone was blowing each other out of the sky with impunity - but damn were the skies full of aircraft.

I really wish someone at SOE would come in with a sledgehammer and just wipe out the current air game - it's really the weakest part of PS2's air/infantry/ground vehicle triangle.

Last edited by typhaon; 2013-07-02 at 12:04 AM.
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Old 2013-07-02, 12:26 AM   [Ignore Me] #21
KesTro
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Re: ESF Update Plans via Kevmo


Originally Posted by snafus View Post
Dog fighters rejoice! The A2AM plague will hopefull be brought to an end and things will be back to enjoyable flight game. Well done so far SOE, really liked the gal updates to. Just need to see some love for our other friend in the sky the Liberator. Those poor bastards still take a beating from everyone in the game.
No way, I'll still come at you with my A2A missiles only now I can say I have skill! *Tears of self satisfaction*
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Old 2013-07-02, 04:13 AM   [Ignore Me] #22
PredatorFour
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Re: ESF Update Plans


Originally Posted by Rolfski View Post
The problem is that this update is intended to lower the skill floor for players to get into the air and as it looks now, there is a severe danger that the complete opposite will happen:

Top gun players will use the extended clip size to effectively degenerate Liberators into flying coffins for every one that does not know how to manoeuvre these vehicles in A2A. The added fall off damage on the guns will favour skilled players even more. Same goes for the better ways to deal with G2A: Mediocre players will still get owned by multiple lock-ons, where top pilots will easily out-manoeuvre them all with their maxed out uber stealth and afterburners.

On paper, these changes might seem to buff newer players. In reality however, I wouldn't be surprised that they buff top pilots even more to a level that it becomes down right even more frustrating to be in the air as a mediocre pilot.
I understand your concerns but your wrong they will struggle more. The main defense in the air is to not get hit so you survive obviously. When your oponent can take you down in one clip it doesnt matter if your BR 100 or 20. The 'skill cap' is significantly reduced and i don't like this. A change like this is not needed imo.
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Old 2013-07-02, 04:48 AM   [Ignore Me] #23
GeoGnome
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Re: ESF Update Plans via Kevmo


My only complaint is that I kind of wanted to see some kind of A2G Bombs... Ideally with laser designators attached to infantry that have to paint targets before said bombs will work.

I was kind of expecting that, after the statements made by Clegg about combinations that require multiple people to work.

But such is life I suppose.


As to the lockon changes, I am kind of glad "Fire and forget" is going to be going away. I am not a pilot, but the fact that we have something so obviously easy mode, is in and of itself sad. It's a zero skill weapon, a crutch. There exist such things in the game, and regardless of where they are, and who owns them, they should be removed. Personally, if they changed it so that that change is across all lockons for ground and air targets I'd be fine with that.
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Old 2013-07-02, 05:00 AM   [Ignore Me] #24
Rolfski
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Re: ESF Update Plans


Originally Posted by PredatorFour View Post
I understand your concerns but your wrong they will struggle more. The main defense in the air is to not get hit so you survive obviously. When your oponent can take you down in one clip it doesnt matter if your BR 100 or 20. The 'skill cap' is significantly reduced and i don't like this. A change like this is not needed imo.
The fact that you can take out an ESF with one clip doesn't mean anything if you don't land almost all of your shots on target, something the majority of pilots struggle with in the first place. Top ace pilots will insta-gib you now even more easily though, making the nose gun the new lol-shooter.

If there's anything devs should have learned by now is that insta-kill weapons are one of the most frustrating mechanics in the game. With the new ESF update it looks like they are bringing this mechanic to a whole new level.

Last edited by Rolfski; 2013-07-02 at 05:01 AM.
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Old 2013-07-02, 05:49 AM   [Ignore Me] #25
AThreatToYou
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Re: ESF Update Plans


Originally Posted by Rolfski View Post

If there's anything devs should have learned by now is that insta-kill weapons are one of the most frustrating mechanics in the game. With the new ESF update it looks like they are bringing this mechanic to a whole new level.
qft

lot of things to be said about the 1HK or near-instant death weapons

The TTK has to be more than .7 seconds for most players to even have a shot in the dark at reacting. And that's more or less not reacting successfully, just having a chance to.
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Old 2013-07-02, 06:36 AM   [Ignore Me] #26
Valkar
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Re: ESF Update Plans via Kevmo


I like the changes but a few reservations, firslty the new weapons seem to indicate the Reaver will now be good at long range and up close with their buff to damage fall off and new long range weapon?

Second I was hoping to see the A2G fighters be the only ones able to hover and the new A2A fighters super fast without certs firstly and unable to hover (to remove reverse power thrusting dogfights)

This way A2G hover and are slower and wide open to A2A fighters whilst A2A fighters must dogfight in a more traditional way instead of the helicopter way we have now?
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Old 2013-07-02, 06:41 AM   [Ignore Me] #27
Valkar
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Re: ESF Update Plans


Originally Posted by AThreatToYou View Post
qft

lot of things to be said about the 1HK or near-instant death weapons

The TTK has to be more than .7 seconds for most players to even have a shot in the dark at reacting. And that's more or less not reacting successfully, just having a chance to.
This is right, top pilots are almost impossible to hit anyway and virtually always get the jump on you so they will take you out even faster now. Trust me this change is bad, the only way this can be avoided is by making it impossible for A2A specced fighters to slow down and hover or reverse power thrust.

Make dogfighting high speed and this may help since ALL top pilots rely entirely on RPT to get slightly above you and unloading a clip into you.
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Old 2013-07-02, 06:48 AM   [Ignore Me] #28
Valkar
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Re: ESF Update Plans via Kevmo


Also obviously the gauss is NC but I read somewhere that the Coyote was TR and Locust VS but can't find it, anyone know where this was confirmed?
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Old 2013-07-02, 07:14 AM   [Ignore Me] #29
Gatekeeper
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Re: ESF Update Plans via Kevmo


Originally Posted by Valkar View Post
Also obviously the gauss is NC but I read somewhere that the Coyote was TR and Locust VS but can't find it, anyone know where this was confirmed?
The name they give for the first weapon is the NS-50 Mass Driver. It seems odd to give it the prefix NS if it's an NC weapon (unless that's a typo). I assumed it was NS for Nanite Systems and hence a common pool weapon - in which case I'd expect the other two would be as well.
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Old 2013-07-02, 07:20 AM   [Ignore Me] #30
Valkar
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Re: ESF Update Plans via Kevmo


Originally Posted by Gatekeeper View Post
The name they give for the first weapon is the NS-50 Mass Driver. It seems odd to give it the prefix NS if it's an NC weapon (unless that's a typo). I assumed it was NS for Nanite Systems and hence a common pool weapon - in which case I'd expect the other two would be as well.
Well I did think that initially but if you read the title above it says

New ESF Weapons

Reminder, all the below weapons are works in progress and subject to change.
The weapons below are designed to be air combat options for the secondary (wing mounted) slots. They are intended to supplement the nose cannons.

So from new ESF (empire specific) and there being 3 I assume its one each
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