Virtual Reality Training [Try before you buy] - Page 2

Firefly · 2011-02-23, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by GoldDragon

Yes, an outfit can adopt players and teach them but from my experiences not every new player (or current player) knows or wants that. Some find satisfaction in learning on their own. This is more about offering options to players and giving outfits (my personal reason for wanting this) a training ground to develop and refine tactics.

My outfit runs a three-tiered set of training - Basic, Advanced, and Leadership. Each is geared towards a specific aspect of the game. Basic is for 1) new players and 2) new players to BWC. It teaches them fundamentals of the game if they don't know it, and how to operate with the outfit - from using Teamspeak/Vent to basic squad formations. It's designed to take a brand new player and give them at least a month of experience in the span of about a half-hour. That way we can take a n00b and run them with the squad without fearing that we'll decrease effectiveness. Advanced is basically small-unit infantry tactics (US Army FM 7-8 and a few others), how squads work and how squads work together as a platoon, conducting ambushes and flanks, etc. And Leadership training is how to run a squad and platoon. These are run in VR Training, in Sanctuary, or on live-fire continents. This is our training ground. And it's not mandatory to take any of them, it's offered but not expected.

It falls to the individual player to find out how to play the game. My biggest tip to brand new players is, find a good outfit. Not every outfit cares about new people, and not every outfit even cares enough to be serious. Which is fine - for every outfit that doesn't, there's an outfit that does. Some go the whole mile, like Warrior Nation, Dragonwolves, BWC, etc. Others just have a bunch of pro-tips. Diff'rent strokes, etc.

Bags · 2011-02-23, 04:30 PM

Most of the above "advanced" training sounds moot; good luck ambushing or flanking someone in a game with radar and third person.

Firefly · 2011-02-23, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by Bags

Most of the above "advanced" training sounds moot; good luck ambushing or flanking someone in a game with radar and third person.

Not even gonna address your comment. Have a nice day.

GoldDragon · 2011-02-23, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by Firefly

It falls to the individual player to find out how to play the game. My biggest tip to brand new players is, find a good outfit. Not every outfit cares about new people, and not every outfit even cares enough to be serious. Which is fine - for every outfit that doesn't, there's an outfit that does. Some go the whole mile, like Warrior Nation, Dragonwolves, BWC, etc. Others just have a bunch of pro-tips. Diff'rent strokes, etc.

I understand that and appreciate it, but does that really merit not including the tool should people want to take advantage of it? I'm just wondering if the idea doesn't appeal to you specifically because you don't see your unit using it. I don't mean this negatively but do you have a reason outside of that for disagreeing with the implementation of a more advanced VR? I would love having something like this to help train my outfit, but if no one else has a use or can see a use for it than I suppose it really loses it's merit to anyone else.

(Just looking to understand your perspective on this atm)

Firefly · 2011-02-23, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by GoldDragon

I understand that and appreciate it, but does that really merit not including the tool should people want to take advantage of it? I'm just wondering if the idea doesn't appeal to you specifically because you don't see your unit using it. I don't mean this negatively but do you have a reason outside of that for disagreeing with the implementation of a more advanced VR? I would love having something like this to help train my outfit, but if no one else has a use or can see a use for it than I suppose it really loses it's merit to anyone else.

(Just looking to understand your perspective on this atm)

See my first and second post (I think) in this thread. I'm specifically FOR the idea, very much in favour of it. Matter of fact, a few years back there was a video competition and my outfit entered it. The first thing in it was a training segment taking place in the VR room.

In its current capacity, it's limited. I mentioned the instanced vehicle VR room - in the past I could get a ten-person squad, all ten people, in the same VR room. We'd use it for various functions because 1) Murphy's Law on live-fire continents means some a-hole will always disrupt training and 2) weapons-lock in Sanctuary. VR was perfect because it was a controlled environment where you could use weapons.

GoldDragon · 2011-02-23, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by Firefly

See my first and second post (I think) in this thread. I'm specifically FOR the idea, very much in favour of it.

Alright, I suppose I can see that in your posts. I was reading them wrong, my apologies there.

On that note, is there something that you'd like to see added into VR that I may have missed in your previous posts? Or at least do you have a more refined application in mind for VR? One of the things that confused me (and I'm still a bit foggy on) in your earlier posts was mention the Test Server, are you saying that you see the "Advanced" VR as something like that on a smaller scale?

Bags · 2011-02-23, 05:26 PM

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Firefly · 2011-02-23, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by GoldDragon

On that note, is there something that you'd like to see added into VR that I may have missed in your previous posts? Or at least do you have a more refined application in mind for VR? One of the things that confused me (and I'm still a bit foggy on) in your earlier posts was mention the Test Server, are you saying that you see the "Advanced" VR as something like that on a smaller scale?

If I had my druthers, and I don't, I'd prefer to see it done this way:

1) As-is, don't nerf anything and don't remove anything except that stupid grief-lock warning when you hit someone. All you gotta do is make it zero damage against anything that isn't on the firing range.

2) Stop with the instanced shit. If I want to put all ten of my squad members in a VR room, let me do it. Having them in separate instances pisses me off. Put it back the way it was.

3) In keeping with the vehicle room and damage warnings, I'd like to be able to fire (but not damage) things. This way I don't get a warning when running infantry drills or vehicle drills.

4) I suppose a base or two might be fine, but only for the sake of being able to run battle drills. Sure I can do it on a locked continent or an active live-fire zone, but Murphy's Law and players interfering will inevitably ruin that.

I can't really think of anything else. As it stands, player innovation takes care of most of it for those that think it through. There's really not much else that can be done, in my opinion. Of course, someone else may have better ideas.

Originally Posted by Bags

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Last edited by Bags; Today at 06:29 PM.

Good idea.

GoldDragon · 2011-02-23, 06:34 PM

I can agree with most of that, really I think the biggest thing for me was adding a responsive AI to train on. That is to say something that will shoot back without killing you (brings you to 5 health and you get a "death" for training). Yes, I can train with my outfit mates and shoot at them but I'd personally rather shoot at an AI while trying to teach my guys how to pull something off THEN try shooting at each other later.

Also it was mentioned earlier you should have access to enemy weapons in VR, I would agree as it allows you to learn how to react to such weapons and know their strengths and weaknesses if you invest time into learning them.

Firefly · 2011-02-23, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by GoldDragon

I can agree with most of that, really I think the biggest thing for me was adding a responsive AI to train on. That is to say something that will shoot back without killing you (brings you to 5 health and you get a "death" for training). Yes, I can train with my outfit mates and shoot at them but I'd personally rather shoot at an AI while trying to teach my guys how to pull something off THEN try shooting at each other later.

See this is where I have to disagree, respectfully of course. I don't want AI in the VR, except what currently exists as standing targets. AI can never, EVER compete with a flesh and blood variable. Which is why I took my outfit to the Public Test server and ran in-house scrimmage trainings. Frequently.

Originally Posted by GoldDragon

Also it was mentioned earlier you should have access to enemy weapons in VR, I would agree as it allows you to learn how to react to such weapons and know their strengths and weaknesses if you invest time into learning them.

Gonna have to disagree here, too. There's something to be said for learning things on the battlefield and figuring it out there. I kinda feel like doing this would basically reduce the game to run-and-gun status.

GoldDragon · 2011-02-23, 06:56 PM

Originally Posted by Firefly

See this is where I have to disagree, respectfully of course. I don't want AI in the VR, except what currently exists as standing targets. AI can never, EVER compete with a flesh and blood variable. Which is why I took my outfit to the Public Test server and ran in-house scrimmage trainings. Frequently.

Gonna have to disagree here, too. There's something to be said for learning things on the battlefield and figuring it out there. I kinda feel like doing this would basically reduce the game to run-and-gun status.

Fair points both, I'm more inclined to agree with the latter though. My entire reason for wanting AI in VR (noting of course that there is no comparison to a truly intelligent and human foe) is that my group is to small to effectively scrimmage ourselves and while we will willing cooperate with other outfits we are very proud of the tactics we develop and I prefer training internally without enlisting other units to scrimmage us. I do appreciate training against each other as it can not only improve your skills but help you learn your teammate strategies and how they play.

Even if AI was left the way it is in VR, I at least think they should duck for cover more and not just stand there.

Bags · 2011-02-23, 11:14 PM

I was going to type a rebuttal but I decided you'd just ignore it as you don't have an actual response. Good say sir.

Firefly · 2011-02-24, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by Bags

I was going to type a rebuttal but I decided you'd just ignore it as you don't have an actual response. Good say sir.

Oh I have a response and it might even be constructive, but it's just not going to be delivered because most of the time I see you shitting on everyone else for presuming to crap on your playstyle, when you're not making antagonistic replies. I can't even count the number of times Hamma's had to come in and warn you to cut your bullshit. Ergo, because you do happen to contribute constructively from time to time, I forewent the heat out of respect for those contributions.

GoldDragon · 2011-02-24, 11:18 AM

So... Other thoughts on expanding the VR and/or implementing what's available more effectively? I would love to see a cookies and cake room added.

But in all seriousness, VR feels like a wasted tool. This has been said before. It's just there to be there and serves a very small, essentially insignificant practical purpose.

Firefly · 2011-02-24, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by GoldDragon

But in all seriousness, VR feels like a wasted tool. This has been said before. It's just there to be there and serves a very small, essentially insignificant practical purpose.

Aside from quickly going from BR1 to BR4, the only other function it can be used for is teaching fire teams and squads how to combine fires, sweeping from left to right, and prioritizing targets.