Upcoming JH Changes? - Page 6

DeadTeddy · 2004-01-18, 04:47 AM

you people giving stats are absolutely rediculous. this game has had buffs and nerfes so many times since it came out, but the stats are about the total time. if you can track the last month, and only that, then we'll talk. those kills can be from release for all we know.

and if we're going for realism, my friend informed me a few months ago of a tri-barrel shotgun that exists in real life and can kill a dinosaur with one shot. barney is a dinosaur right?

Gigabein · 2004-01-18, 05:30 AM

So now we need solid statistical proof that JH/Van's are relatively over-advantaged, or else everyone's complaints are unfounded. Absolutely bluediculous.

I wonder how many times the devs followed this philosophy when deciding on what needed nerfing...

KIAsan · 2004-01-18, 06:05 AM

It's getting the nerf. Seen it coming for a while. So, instead of killing each other, lets just wait until they nerf it and see how it plays. We may all be happy with the results.

DeadTeddy · 2004-01-18, 01:26 PM

gigabein, the answer is "never". they have statistics, down to how many bullets were fired from each weapon by each empire and how much damage it did.

BadAsh · 2004-01-18, 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by DeadTeddy

you people giving stats are absolutely rediculous. this game has had buffs and nerfes so many times since it came out, but the stats are about the total time. if you can track the last month, and only that, then we'll talk. those kills can be from release for all we know.

and if we're going for realism, my friend informed me a few months ago of a tri-barrel shotgun that exists in real life and can kill a dinosaur with one shot. barney is a dinosaur right?

Since you don't like statistical evidence then let's try common sense...

Why people hate the Jack Hammer:

There are several CQB situations where a mid-skill level JH user can kill any other infantry player 1 on 1. One such situation is camping the top of a turn in a staircase with a JH and Audio AMP. As TR I can surge up the stairs, get to the side or behind the target, and start unloading. He just turns around in tri-shot instagib mode and I'm dead.

In that example let's reverse the weapons... give me the insta gib HA and give him the slower TTK weapon. Now he is audio amp camping the top of the stairs and I surge up and *boom*boom*boom*!!! This time I win easily. Was this a case of mad skillz, or simply a case of weapon superiority? The answer is obvious.

Why you hear VS and TR pointing out that the Vanguard is too powerful:

The Vanguard simply put is the best bang for your buck in the game. The 150mm main gun is simply the best in its field. The MAG can't kill infantry with 1 hit from it's main gun. The prowler can kill infantry with 1 hit with its 100mm cannon BUT it must be a direct hit. The prowler is harder to aim because the way dual guns work with the crosshair (it moves with every shot). If a Van crew intentionally hunts "soft" targets during a zerg you'd be amazed with how many easy kills you can rack up... a 2 man squad/van crew will level up in BR like no one's business.

infantry Kill requirement summery:
Vanguard: 1 near hit = dead infantry
Prowler: 1 direct hit = dead infantry (harder to aim with AND you have to score a direct hit)
Magrider: 2 direct hits to kill an infantry

Phoenix, Striker, or Lancer?:

Lancer = joke; Striker = OK against aircraft or MAX units that are outside way in the open; Phoenix = King of AV. It drops a MAX in 3 hits and the camera mode is godly. Give me 4-6 good phoenix users and we will shut down an entire enemy base during a zerg vs. zerg siege. The enemy will be denied MAX units outside in their CY or walls. The enemy will have their aircraft and vehicles harassed like no one's business. This assumes they have a base that has an interior vehicle terminal (like the tech facility and drop ship center) otherwise it's one dead terminal and no vehicles will be allowed. Also, infantry die to phoenix rockets at about 3-4 hits as well. So have fun putting snipers anywhere or having a few guys on the walls with plasma thumpers they are going to get spanked. Oh and finally, all of your carefully placed spitfire turrets are gone too, they are one hit wonders to the phoenix user. So run inside and quiver in fear because it will soon be Scatter MAX and Surgehammer time! Oh, look the NC win again! Amazing huh?

In summery:

The JH = easy easy easy infantry kills
The Van = easy easy easy infantry/max/vehicle kills
The Phoenix = easy easy easy MAX kills/general harassment and terrorizing of everything else

The problem you face bring up the obvious in a public forum is that people who play NC tend to get turned into villains as if this series of game flaws is personally their fault. Also, NC players tend to strongly defend their equipment because it suggests that their kills/victories were somehow easier or less earned so this takes away from their reputation and suggests a lack of skills. Both are partially true. The NC does have many very good players, but they do have the best gear. I play TR and NC on Markov and there is just no comparison between the raw power of the NC�s gear and that of the TR. Combine that with the fact that the TR don't have MAX units that play nice with their own infantry and you see why the TR crumble time after time against the onslaught of the NC Zerg.

JuSTCHiLLiN · 2004-01-19, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by BadAsh

*Taken from Thott's PS Stats that come directly from "My Planetside" on the official SOE site. So these are SOE's stats.

Just for clarification. Thott's can't pull non-outfit characters so these are not SOE's "official" stats. I'd imagine they'd be pretty close though.

Not that I disagree with the 18% issue but stats can be viewed several different ways. Let's play devil advocate and see if there are any other possible reasons why the NC have more kills per person.

I've noticed that if you factor out the BR20s that things even out drastically. According to Thott's you're average Terran br 19 has 1433 NC kills and 1227 VS kills (2660 total), a Vanu br 19 has 1298 TR kills and 1400 NC kills (2698 total), and a NC br 19 has 1328 TR kills and 1239 VS kills (2567 total).

Why is there such a difference? Shouldn't a BR 19 NC have roughly the same amount of kills as a BR 19 TR or BR 19 VS?

The simple fact is that kills only go up but levels don't. Perhaps, there's more old school NC players STILL PLAYING. From BR15 to BR19, the New Conglomerate has the FEWEST average kills. A br 20 playing since beta with 16,000 kills is definately going to skew the results when compared against someone who just attained br 20 and has 4000 kills.

If you take out the BR 20 factor which can simply be due to the fact that there are more long-time br 20 new conglomerate players you see that it's not an issue.

If battle ranks continued open ended and you could show that empire X has a siginificantly more kiils at level Z then you have a case for the 18% factor.

Spee · 2004-01-19, 12:24 AM

Originally Posted by DeadTeddy

and if we're going for realism, my friend informed me a few months ago of a tri-barrel shotgun that exists in real life and can kill a dinosaur with one shot.

A pistol can kill a dinosaur in one shot. Simply depends on how big the dinosaur is.

And how the shit did they come up with that figure? "Our shotgun has a "5 dinosaur" damage rating."

Bullshit, I cry!

BadAsh · 2004-01-19, 12:56 AM

Originally Posted by JuSTCHiLLiN

Perhaps, there's more old school NC players STILL PLAYING

Perhaps, but because it holds true for all 3 servers... I doubt it. The various levels don't matter because once you achieve a certain amount of kills you get enough BEP to advance a level.

Also, the fact that br15-br19 NC have fewer kills than VS or TR of a silimar level does not surprise me either... since the NC overpower the enemy and win most of their battles they are always cashing in on the capture BEP. So the NC take on the TR and everyone gets kills, but when the battle is over the NC win and get that 3-4k bonus and the TR are recalling as usual. So with fewer kills the NC level up for that alone.

Fenrys · 2004-01-19, 02:10 AM

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of ditching HA all together. No JH, no MCG, no Lasher.

BadAsh · 2004-01-19, 02:42 AM

Originally Posted by Fenrys

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of ditching HA all together. No JH, no MCG, no Lasher.

I'd be for that too, but ONLY if MAX units were ditched too... then you could actually have a place where infantry could have a clean fight without vehicles getting in the way... a max is a mini-walking tank that takes damage like a vehicle... so it's a vehicle that can go indoors...

Of course this would change the game to "sweeper wars"... but at least things would be fair.

Onizuka-GTO · 2004-01-19, 07:04 AM

Originally Posted by Spee

A pistol can kill a dinosaur in one shot.

No. any weapon can kil a dinosaur, that's because they're dead already.

KIAsan · 2004-01-19, 08:32 AM

Time to quit arguing about the JH. Smokejumper already admitted that the JH is SUPPOSED to be the MOST powerful HA in the game, AND the ONLY weapon to one-shot kill. So, there will be no changes. All of you who argue statistics about how good the JH is and the imbalance in kills, well, your right and the Devs admit it. Those who try to defend the JH by twisting the facts, well, you can stop now, since the Devs admit it to be unbalanced and wont be fixing it anytime soon.

Edit: Forgot the link: http://boards.station.sony.com/ubb/p...ML/001209.html

Veteran · 2004-01-19, 08:36 AM

I'd love to hear what Terran Republic's austensibly overpowered asset is supposed to be.

Our athletic supporters?

KIAsan · 2004-01-19, 08:48 AM

We don't have one in TR. Here is Smokejumper's exact quote: "The Jackhammer is still the most powerful weapon in the game, the only weapon that can one-shot soldiers (outside of vehicle weaponry) and still absolutely fearsome indoors."

It is the MOST POWERFUL WEAPON IN THE GAME. Sounds pretty conclusive to me. They designed NC to be the most powerful. So, TR will never have a uber weapon. I just wonder what the balance to the JH is?????

Veteran · 2004-01-19, 08:49 AM

My guess is the time it takes to clean TR and VS blood off their armor balances the NC.