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View Poll Results: Should cockpit view be forced?
Yes 287 77.36%
No 84 22.64%
Voters: 371. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-04-17, 01:41 AM   [Ignore Me] #121
Stew
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Re: Cockpit View - should it be forced? More options.


Originally Posted by CutterJohn View Post
Then don't fly a camera. Request a decent cockpit view that does not overly restrict your view by spending 25% of the screen on superfluous detail that has no reason for existing.


The problem with games is they are always trying to 'prove' how realistic they are by taking up more of the already greatly restricted field of view. Its like driving from the 1st person view in car games. Absolutely nothing at all like the real thing, and just makes it seem claustrophobic.






These two side bar are actually acurate look by urself the mosquito is designed this way
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Old 2012-04-17, 01:49 AM   [Ignore Me] #122
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Re: Cockpit View - should it be forced? More options.


Originally Posted by Stew View Post
Ur request dont make sens at this point TO much animmation take to much ressource and time to get it done properly the cockpit view was planned since the begining of ps2 developpement the footage they have show early as no cockpit because they were not ready !

iam agains to much animation that could lead to many bugs glitchs and even exploits and also take to much ressource time and $ for no proper use !

A cokpit view is mimmersive and make each vehicules for each empire distincs and make it feel better ! instead of just having red lines purple line and yellow lines .. so yeah

Dont want enter and quit useless animation but i still want a decents cokpit view for every wheel air ground or whatever vehicules !
My brain hurts after reading your post. While I do agree with you (I think?), this is a primarily English speaking forum. Please use the accepted language when posting here so I don't get another nosebleed.
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Old 2012-04-17, 01:49 AM   [Ignore Me] #123
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Re: Cockpit View - should it be forced? More options.


Originally Posted by Stew View Post
These two side bar are actually acurate look by urself the mosquito is designed this way
Yes. I'm well aware that the cockpit accurately represents the model. I'm saying that the model is badly designed because it was just designed to look cool from the outside with zero thought given toward visibility, and because of that, the cockpit, which is based off the badly designed model, is also badly designed.

Last edited by CutterJohn; 2012-04-17 at 01:55 AM.
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Old 2012-04-17, 01:55 AM   [Ignore Me] #124
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Re: Cockpit View - should it be forced? More options.


Originally Posted by CutterJohn View Post
Yes. I'm well aware that the cockpit accurately represents the model. I'm saying that the model is badly designed because it was just designed to look cool from the outside with zero thought given toward visibility, and because of that, so is the cockpit.
Actually the pic of matts is not well taken its a iphone pic iam pretty sure thats the IN game cockpit will be just fine and also u have the field of view on both little windows on each side we cant see them properly because the pics is not properly taken (( almost like the vanu guns )) both new twitter pics are kinda half done !
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Old 2012-04-17, 01:55 AM   [Ignore Me] #125
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Re: Cockpit View - should it be forced? More options.


Originally Posted by CutterJohn View Post
To all those people who claim it gives an advantage, I presume you also now want to get rid of a variable field of view as well, and kill support for 3 monitor setups? Because those give an advantage as well.
Those are pretty bad comparisons. With FOV changes, what you gain with a wider FOV you lose in magnification. So you will see more from side-to-side but everything will look farther away. So you sacrificae longe-range vision for the wider FOV. However, toggling the cockpit off gives you no disadvatnage whatsoever. There's no tradeoff. Here's a good example of different FOV's in BF3

Hmm now that I think of it perhaps a FOV adjustment could be added as a balance measure for turning off the cockpit. So you could turn it off, but you're FOV automatically gets smaller as a result. Thus the cockpit view will always give you greater side-to-side visibility...

As for 3 monitor setups, removing that option for players goes down the path of attempting to purposefully handicap those with beefier computer hardware. I can't imagine any game developer would purposefully shoot themselves in the foot like that unless its inclusion required huge amounts of development time to implement and/or caused other game issues that were difficult to overcome (like graphics glitches, game crashes, etc).


Originally Posted by CutterJohn View Post
I wouldn't mind if it wasn't such a crappy cockpit. No offense to whoever made it, but that framework is ridiculously thick, and any decent engineering job would have just made that a bubble canopy. That cockpit is the obvious result of someone designing something with absolutely zero thought given to its function. And let me guess.. The VS fighter is going to have those prongs out front that serve no purpose other than blocking vision be visible too, right?

Ugh.. This has been a bad couple weeks for me. I'm a vehicle whore from PS1, and between badly designed cockpits being mandatory, and no 3rd person for ground vehicles.. yeah. My enthusiasm just took a huge hit.

Now all we need is some ridiculous shader for tanks cockpit view that makes it look like you are watching a tv from the 50s...
This is still Alpha. Like we've seen with almost everything else I'm sure the cockpits will go through a number of different design changes, hopefully in the direction of being less intrusive/FOV-blocking.

And I'm hoping the Higby realizes how bad of an idea it is to remove 3rdPV from ground vehicles. The Magrider alone is reason enough to include 3rdPV since the driver can't see behind him or to either side and it behaves exactly like an aircraft that can't leave the ground and so can't simply fly over obstacles in its path.
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Old 2012-04-17, 01:58 AM   [Ignore Me] #126
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Re: Cockpit View - should it be forced? More options.


True, FoV is a bad example. 3 monitors is not. You lose nothing. Or a head tracking solution like TrackIR. If people think disabling the cockpit gives an advantage, then people better be prepared to be very much against both of those things.

Originally Posted by Erendil View Post
balance measure
The balance measure is you can't mouselook around the cockpit if you don't have an actual cockpit. That was the same balance used in PS1 for 3rd person. Couldn't move the 3PV camera, but you could move the 1st person camera around(except in hover vehicles and aircraft since the mouse was used as a control).

Last edited by CutterJohn; 2012-04-17 at 02:04 AM.
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Old 2012-04-17, 02:01 AM   [Ignore Me] #127
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Re: Cockpit View - should it be forced? More options.


Originally Posted by Stew View Post






These two side bar are actually acurate look by urself the mosquito is designed this way
Wow nice catch. Those side bars in the cockpit view look higher up and a lot thicker than they do in the view from the outside, though. It looks to me like they need to cut their width in half by shaving the top half of each of those bars. That'd make them thinner and move them more out of the way.
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Old 2012-04-17, 02:17 AM   [Ignore Me] #128
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Re: Cockpit View - should it be forced? More options.


Originally Posted by CutterJohn View Post
True, FoV is a bad example. 3 monitors is not. You lose nothing. Or a head tracking solution like TrackIR. If people think disabling the cockpit gives an advantage, then people better be prepared to be very much against both of those things.
I see what you're saying. However, 3 monitors or TrackIR require extra hardware to be purchased on behalf of the player. And not many people have the money and/or the knowledge to obtain and configure such a setup. So it would be quite rare to begin with. However, it would do wonders to show off the Forgelight engine so as I said it'd be stupid for SOE not to include it barring development time or subsequent bugs appearing in the game from its inclusion.

OTOH, a cockpit on/off toggle costs nothing, would be available to 100% of the playerbase, is simple to turn on/off, and if there's no downside hardly anybody will use it outside of the few who are willing to be at a disadvantage in exchange for the immersion factor. Not the same thing. A much better example would be the weather and flora settings in PS1, which most people had turned off, because enabling it gave you no gameplay benefits and put you at a visibility disadvantage.

Originally Posted by CutterJohn View Post
The balance measure is you can't mouselook around the cockpit if you don't have an actual cockpit.
Technically Freelook doesn't actually require a cockpit - just a 1stPV. But you're right that could be another possible balance measure, and a good one too.

Okay you convinced me. I'd be fine with a cockpit toggle if turning it off either 1) prevented you from using freelook (assuming that's available in PS2 to begin with), or 2) decreased your FOV setting a bit so you're a little zoomed in but you lose a bit of your side-to-side view.
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Last edited by Erendil; 2012-04-17 at 02:25 AM.
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Old 2012-04-17, 02:32 AM   [Ignore Me] #129
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Re: Cockpit View - should it be forced? More options.


Originally Posted by Erendil View Post
I see what you're saying. However, 3 monitors or TrackIR require extra hardware to be purchased on behalf of the player. And not many people have the money and/or the knowledge to obtain and configure such a setup. So it would be quite rare to begin with. However, it would do wonders to show off the Forgelight engine so as I said it'd be stupid for SOE not to include it barring development time or subsequent bugs appearing in the game from its inclusion.

OTOH, a cockpit on/off toggle costs nothing, would be available to 100% of the playerbase, is simple to turn on/off, and if there's no downside hardly anybody will use it outside of the few who are willing to be at a disadvantage in exchange for the immersion factor. Not the same thing. A much better example would be the weather and flora settings in PS1, which most people had turned off, because enabling it gave you no gameplay benefits and put you at a visibility disadvantage.



Technically Freelook doesn't actually require a cockpit - just a 1stPV. But you're right that could be another possible balance measure, and a good one too.

Okay you convinced me. I'd be fine with a cockpit toggle if turning it off either 1) prevented you from using freelook (assuming that's available in PS2 to begin with), or 2) decreased your FOV setting a bit so you're a little zoomed in but you lose a bit of your side-to-side view.
If the availability of triple monitor setups are so low, then wouldn't that be an even stronger incentive to block dynamic FoV? Those 1% that have that type of setup would be at a ridiculous advantage if we follow the same logic as the topic in this thread.

I prefer using cockpit view if it is available, in any game, since it usually offers a better feel for depth along with better perephial vision. Those two things are key in driving any type of vehicle.

And as the above stated (and yourself), limiting freelook to only work "in-cockpit" would balance things out quite nicely.
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Old 2012-04-17, 03:15 AM   [Ignore Me] #130
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Re: Cockpit View - should it be forced? More options.


The thing iam worried about is the Vs aircraft seams to not have side bar !

The TR and NC ones look pretty similar one have side bar more curve the other have angular ones but both share a very zimilar look so i would like to know if the VS also have (( inside cockpit )) side bar to be fair ??





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Old 2012-04-17, 03:36 AM   [Ignore Me] #131
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Re: Cockpit View - should it be forced? More options.


Originally Posted by Bonius View Post
If the availability of triple monitor setups are so low, then wouldn't that be an even stronger incentive to block dynamic FoV? Those 1% that have that type of setup would be at a ridiculous advantage if we follow the same logic as the topic in this thread.
How many screens can you watch at the same time? I have found that it is easy enough to miss things happening on your single screen when you have your attention focused on whatever you are shooting at.

With a locked view it would matter because you could look to the sides and others couldn't, but with freelook enabled I wouldn't think having 3 monitors is that big of an advantage.
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Old 2012-04-17, 03:42 AM   [Ignore Me] #132
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Re: Cockpit View - should it be forced? More options.


It should be forced on if it is to be included otherwise players aren't on an even playing field.
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Old 2012-04-17, 03:57 AM   [Ignore Me] #133
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Re: Cockpit View - should it be forced? More options.


Originally Posted by Erendil View Post
I see what you're saying. However, 3 monitors or TrackIR require extra hardware to be purchased on behalf of the player. And not many people have the money and/or the knowledge to obtain and configure such a setup. So it would be quite rare to begin with.
Just to be clear, you're saying advantages are ok so long as people have to pay for them? Imagine if some hardware configuration or special software were able to give people 20% more dps or something.

Granted, FOV isn't a huge advantage. But I'd like to see it treated consistently. If disabling your cockpit is too big of an advantage to allow, then 3 monitors and TrackIR are most definitely too big to allow.



Technically Freelook doesn't actually require a cockpit - just a 1stPV.
Yeah, but i've never seen it done. It would be both incredibly confusing and highly OP since it would literally be flying a camera with unimpeded 360 vision. If a game is going to give you that level of camera freedom they just attach the gun to it, like Descent.
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Old 2012-04-17, 04:02 AM   [Ignore Me] #134
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Re: Cockpit View - should it be forced? More options.


The original Liberator kind of has cockpitless freelook with the camera mode (although limited to the underside)
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Old 2012-04-17, 04:55 AM   [Ignore Me] #135
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Re: Cockpit View - should it be forced? More options.


Originally Posted by CutterJohn View Post
Then don't fly a camera. Request a decent cockpit view that does not overly restrict your view by spending 25% of the screen on superfluous detail that has no reason for existing.


The problem with games is they are always trying to 'prove' how realistic they are by taking up more of the already greatly restricted field of view. Its like driving from the 1st person view in car games. Absolutely nothing at all like the real thing, and just makes it seem claustrophobic.



Yes, I know. They have no purpose for being there. You can make bubble canopies that shape. The model was designed to look cool, not for any sort of functionality. Then they based the cockpit off the model, and now we have to deal with it. Lol.. I can't wait to mouselook around that(which would be the only reason to have 3d cockpits).. Extremely thick horizontal bars at eye level, and absolutely zero visibility to the rear...

I can't wait to see what the Reavers cockpit is going to look like, either. The bracing on that one is just ridiculous. And as previously mentioned, the vanu has the 'block my vision please' cylon raider styling.
I basically couldn't agree with this post more. For some reason if half of my screen is taken up by what's little more than a glorified desk, I'm supposed to enjoy it more. Yeah it looks nice, but so does the actual game - I could be seeing 50% more of that if this massive UI wasn't covering it all up.

I'm not sure whether it's been completely overlooked or is being used as a balance measure for aircraft (since anyone that claims they weren't ridiculous in PS1 is lying - I know, I barely ever leave a reaver any more ); whichever it is, both the bottom section and the huge bars up either side are just gonna piss me off the entire time.

It's like when you're driving round a corner that's just the right curvature, and the pillar manages to get RIGHT in the way the entire time. Why the hell aren't they made out of clear plastic or something
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