Gameplay: Cloaker Glide Suits - Page 2

Kilmoran · 2012-03-27, 11:34 PM

As we are using nanites and space metals.. let's assume that cloakers aren't carrying around about 30 lbs of sniper rifle. But beyond that, balance wise i still think it's best if any sort of true scaling/high mobility were to be added, it be for infiltration, not sniping locations.

Hypevosa · 2012-03-28, 01:41 AM

I think it's safe to assume new conglomerate are using a heavy sniper rifle at least - but I really just find the idea that we shouldn't allow snipers to find and make higher sniping nests without ditching an aircraft to be silly. Isn't that what counter sniping is for?

DoctorBrain · 2012-03-28, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by Hypevosa

M16 fully loaded weighs 4 kg

Barret .50 with the longest barrel weighs 14 kilograms

I don't know where you get your information, but that's a hella lot more. That's 22 pounds more metal than a fully loaded assault rifle.

Well, that's not really fair. You're comparing a 5.56mm infantry weapon to a .50 anti-materiel rifle.

If you want to compare it to an actual sniper rifle, the M40 - which uses .308 Winchester - is about 4kg without a scope, and a little over 6.5kg loaded with a scope.

Talek Krell · 2012-03-28, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by Hypevosa

I think it's safe to assume new conglomerate are using a heavy sniper rifle at least - but I really just find the idea that we shouldn't allow snipers to find and make higher sniping nests without ditching an aircraft to be silly. Isn't that what counter sniping is for?

That seems a teensy unfair to all of the people who aren't snipers.

Whalenator · 2012-03-28, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by DoctorBrain

Well, that's not really fair. You're comparing a 5.56mm infantry weapon to a .50 anti-materiel rifle.

If you want to compare it to an actual sniper rifle, the M40 - which uses .308 Winchester - is about 4kg without a scope, and a little over 6.5kg loaded with a scope.

^

Hypevosa · 2012-03-28, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by DoctorBrain

Well, that's not really fair. You're comparing a 5.56mm infantry weapon to a .50 anti-materiel rifle.

If you want to compare it to an actual sniper rifle, the M40 - which uses .308 Winchester - is about 4kg without a scope, and a little over 6.5kg loaded with a scope.

I'm assuming we're trying to penetrate shielding and armor - so I chose an anti-material rifle as it sounds like the right tool for the job.

Hypevosa · 2012-03-28, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by Talek Krell

That seems a teensy unfair to all of the people who aren't snipers.

This is why all squads should be wise enough to have one or two good snipers in their number to counter any long distance threats. This is a game about tactics and strategy, and squad composition is part of that. No good squad is long for this world without a medic and a mechanic, and I feel that having a good sniper is also part of that equation.

CutterJohn · 2012-03-28, 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by Brusi

I think one of the main examples that Higby gave about the new class system reducing overpowered combinations was snipers with jetpacks. Something to think about i spose...

Infils with grappling hook packs, or glider packs instead of big ass sniper rifles seem ok by that standard tho.

One of the perks of the more restrictive system is they could say cloakers can get X, but cannot get it at the same time as the sniper rifle.

Originally Posted by Hypevosa

I think it's safe to assume new conglomerate are using a heavy sniper rifle at least - but I really just find the idea that we shouldn't allow snipers to find and make higher sniping nests without ditching an aircraft to be silly. Isn't that what counter sniping is for?

I really don't think the sniper needs anymore advantages.. They already have the protection of extreme range and effective camouflage. Do they need the additional advantage of being able to easily get into an out of the way place as well?

I could maybe go for trading the sniper off for the ability to climb/glide.

Hypevosa · 2012-03-29, 12:13 AM

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

I really don't think the sniper needs anymore advantages.. They already have the protection of extreme range and effective camouflage. Do they need the additional advantage of being able to easily get into an out of the way place as well?

I could maybe go for trading the sniper off for the ability to climb/glide.

I thought that people carrying the heavy sniper rifle were already forfeiting "effective" camouflage and only getting jenky camo?

I still think this is a case for squads to have more diversity and have snipers specifically for counter sniping - and few things make easier targets for a counter sniper than someone who's so secure in their position they don't move, or someone who's similarly stranded themselves in one spot since they'll die when they try to get out of it.

I also think that getting shot while gliding should interrupt the glide and possibly destroy the wings, meaning you get to fall to your death. ;D

CutterJohn · 2012-03-29, 01:35 AM

Originally Posted by Hypevosa

I thought that people carrying the heavy sniper rifle were already forfeiting "effective" camouflage and only getting jenky camo?

Which will still be pretty damned effective if you don't run around and have a noisy pattern behind you. It will have the same effect of disrupting your outline.

I still think this is a case for squads to have more diversity and have snipers specifically for counter sniping

A unit being its own counter is not a good design. How would you like if it you had to have MAXs around to kill MAXs?

Tbh, I think thats probably part of the reason for having cloakers as the snipers.. They are easily the weakest class, defensively, and hence will be much more susceptible to taking damage at range by non sniper weapons.

Hypevosa · 2012-03-29, 07:10 PM

If I am sniping and someone kills me with an SMG from half a mile away, I'm just going to quit, thanks, too much call of duty BS right there for me. The point of having a sniper rifle is to be out of range of everyone else. The best counter for a sniper should be another sniper and, failing that, a very mobile unit that can avoid being sniped and get in range for the kill.

Also realize that we have bullet drop, and likely bullet travel time - you will be able to dodge bullets from snipers far enough away as long as you bother to move around.

Talek Krell · 2012-03-29, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by Hypevosa

The best counter for a sniper should be another sniper and, failing that, a very mobile unit that can avoid being sniped and get in range for the kill.

There should be a variety of counters for a sniper available to most if not all troops. Snipers are not special and do not inherently deserve to be able to access places where they can only be dealt with by other snipers.

Putting snipers into pissing matches with each other while leaving everyone else to just hope for the best is poor game design.

ThirdCross · 2012-03-30, 12:22 AM

I like the idea, it adds a new dimension to the game without being overpowered. This doesn't give infiltrators a get out of trouble free card because the two major anti-sniper classes, light assault and aircraft, already work in three dimensions.

Secondly, I'm not against the idea of ziplines or grappling hooks but they seem like too much work to implement. With flight mechanics and jetpacks already in the game glide suits shouldn't be too hard to implement.

CutterJohn · 2012-03-30, 02:19 AM

Originally Posted by Hypevosa

If I am sniping and someone kills me with an SMG from half a mile away, I'm just going to quit, thanks, too much call of duty BS right there for me. The point of having a sniper rifle is to be out of range of everyone else. The best counter for a sniper should be another sniper and, failing that, a very mobile unit that can avoid being sniped and get in range for the kill.

No, the point of a sniper rifle is to be accurate and hit the target, preferably in one shot. Most service sniper rifles, most especially the ones people run actually run around with, use the same bullets as other rifles/machine guns. Most rifle rounds are perfectly capable of returning fire at the snipers effective range, just not quite as accurately.

Hypevosa · 2012-03-30, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

No, the point of a sniper rifle is to be accurate and hit the target, preferably in one shot. Most service sniper rifles, most especially the ones people run actually run around with, use the same bullets as other rifles/machine guns. Most rifle rounds are perfectly capable of returning fire at the snipers effective range, just not quite as accurately.

I'm not talking about the ones you "run around with". I'm talking about setting up a sniper nest from far enough away that hitting you with a bullet from anything short of another sniper rifle would be a miracle of god. If I'm "sniping" I want to have to gauge distance, speed, bullet drop, movement and feel a sense of accomplishment when I show an entire squad their leader's innards and they only know the direction it came from even though I'm hiding in plain sight.

Using a scope means you have target acquisition time much longer than anyone with iron sights or a red dot, and that's what makes sniping so painful in something like COD where someone can turn and basically snap right on you in a fraction of a second while you're acquiring them and unload with perfect accuracy. It's BS and makes sniping useless. The only sniping I've felt relatively good about was on Battle Field's maps since I could get the distance required to make sniping an effective tactic since a pistol/SMG wasn't effective at taking me out due to bullet spread and being far enough away they had too small a target. I had alot of fun counter sniping as well. I got killed many times by other snipers, and units smart/mobile enough to get to where I was, and that should be the only effective counter to a sniper aside from just not standing still.