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View Poll Results: Should cockpit view be forced?
Yes 287 77.36%
No 84 22.64%
Voters: 371. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-04-17, 11:23 AM   [Ignore Me] #136
Rbstr
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Re: Cockpit View - [Now Forced per Higby]


I like the general idea and it's great that it's self-consistent with the outside model.
My only concern is that the attack aircraft are, in part, supposed to hit ground targets:
They should have either cameras or windows that allow them to have a forward/down view to some extent. The mossy right now blocks just about everything below 1/3rd screen.
I'd go with a bit more minimalist concept and then cover most of the now window area with camera displays for a much greater viewing area. Almost like you're in a sphere of LCD displays with some control bits around you.
You know what I'm getting at?
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Old 2012-04-17, 11:29 AM   [Ignore Me] #137
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Re: Cockpit View - [Now Forced per Higby]


With the forced first person it gets sort of hard to say frap or stream stuff. However I do believe 3rd person should not give you a tactical advantage, only say a navigational advantage.

Mabey if they restrict it say you cannot get a weapon lock or aim while in 3rd person view.

Of course for scifi purposes I always wanted to imerse the game play call the 3rd person view a holocam or holo(graphic) view as if your HUD had some high tech to switch to such a view.
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Old 2012-04-17, 11:36 AM   [Ignore Me] #138
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Re: Cockpit View - should it be forced? More options.


I find it ironic that most people would turn off the cockpit for getting in the way but are perfectly willing to deal with bulky iron sights obstructing the most important part of their view.
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Old 2012-04-17, 01:55 PM   [Ignore Me] #139
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Re: Cockpit View - should it be forced? More options.


Originally Posted by CutterJohn View Post
The balance measure is you can't mouselook around the cockpit if you don't have an actual cockpit.
People would just have to switch back and forth whenever they wanted to look around. At that point it's just an unnecessarily obtuse control scheme and we're right back on the "we can't have nice things" effect.

If you would, try this. Explain your line of thought behind disliking the cockpit view.




Originally Posted by CutterJohn View Post
Granted, FOV isn't a huge advantage. But I'd like to see it treated consistently. If disabling your cockpit is too big of an advantage to allow, then 3 monitors and TrackIR are most definitely too big to allow.
TrackIR is a better control scheme for an existing feature (freelook). It is advantageous, but it doesn't fundamentally change the gameplay. I would hope that Multi-monitor setups have reasonable limitations on the field of view they can achieve. In that case I don't especially like them but they're a far cry from toggling off the tall grass I'm hiding in.
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Old 2012-04-17, 02:01 PM   [Ignore Me] #140
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Re: Cockpit View - [Now Forced per Higby]


Wouldn't this TrackIR with 3 screens be more awesome with cockpits though ? It would make you feel like you ARE in the plane.
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Old 2012-04-17, 02:07 PM   [Ignore Me] #141
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Re: Cockpit View - should it be forced? More options.


Originally Posted by CutterJohn View Post
Imagine if some hardware configuration or special software were able to give people 20% more dps or something.
Thats called living near the server.

Fact is there is no such thing in gaming as an even playing field. There will always be at lease 1 factor that is different for both players.
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Old 2012-04-17, 02:20 PM   [Ignore Me] #142
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Re: Cockpit View - [Now Forced per Higby]


I woke up this morning and found that my thread title had been touched without my permission. I feel so violated, yet, I liked it.
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Old 2012-04-17, 02:25 PM   [Ignore Me] #143
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Re: Cockpit View - [Now Forced per Higby]


Originally Posted by sylphaen View Post
Wouldn't this TrackIR with 3 screens be more awesome with cockpits though ? It would make you feel like you ARE in the plane.
TrackIR really is awesome for cockpits. I bought one a couple weeks ago for Freespace 2, can't wait to try it in Planetside. Maybe flying through a thunderstorm will look something like this:


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Old 2012-04-17, 02:26 PM   [Ignore Me] #144
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Re: Cockpit View - [Now Forced per Higby]


Is anyone surprised by the overwhelming support of the forced view? I really didn't expect such a strong response. It just affirms my belief in the dev team about the direction they are going
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Old 2012-04-17, 02:38 PM   [Ignore Me] #145
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Re: Cockpit View - [Now Forced per Higby]


Originally Posted by Gandhi View Post
TrackIR really is awesome for cockpits. I bought one a couple weeks ago for Freespace 2, can't wait to try it in Planetside. Maybe flying through a thunderstorm will look something like this:
Do you had to learn flying without leaning your head during turns?
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Old 2012-04-17, 02:46 PM   [Ignore Me] #146
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Re: Cockpit View - [Now Forced per Higby]


Just some real life examples here...

F35:


F16:


MIG17:


Apache:
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Old 2012-04-17, 03:10 PM   [Ignore Me] #147
Gandhi
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Re: Cockpit View - [Now Forced per Higby]


Originally Posted by FastAndFree View Post
Do you had to learn flying without leaning your head during turns?
Yeah it took some getting used to, especially whenever I'd glance down at my keyboard. I was joking with the modders that they should put a keyboard in the cockpits, then the meta game would be complete
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Old 2012-04-17, 03:27 PM   [Ignore Me] #148
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Re: Cockpit View - [Now Forced per Higby]


Forcing it seems like a good idea. It adds to realism and immersion. If not forced no one will sacrifice visibility for realism and thus it would be like there's no cockpit view at all.
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Old 2012-04-17, 03:58 PM   [Ignore Me] #149
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Re: Cockpit View - should it be forced? More options.


Originally Posted by Talek Krell View Post
Explain your line of thought behind disliking the cockpit view.
Because your window to the world is already restricted enough just because its on a monitor. And then they aren't content with just having a minimal instrument panel, they have to have super thick bracing that does nothing, even in sci fi games that take place long after they figured out the whole bubble canopy thing and just have poor designs.

Like Tie Fighter.



Am I too believe they couldn't put a single pane of glass there and get rid of the spider web? Its ridiculous.

I've been disabling the cockpit view in every game I've played that allowed it(and most did) since this:



Now a game that is not a flight simulator is trying to act all hardcore, when its not been an issue for any other game for years, including proper flight sims, or its predecessor. And everyone else is defending it based on the immersive qualities of poor sci fi design.


Originally Posted by Gandhi View Post
TrackIR really is awesome for cockpits. I bought one a couple weeks ago for Freespace 2, can't wait to try it in Planetside. Maybe flying through a thunderstorm will look something like this:

Freespace 2 SCP The Last Resort - YouTube

Right. Disabling a cockpit view is too much of an advantage. But TrackIR is not. Completely illogical.

Last edited by CutterJohn; 2012-04-17 at 04:01 PM.
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Old 2012-04-17, 04:16 PM   [Ignore Me] #150
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Re: Cockpit View - should it be forced? More options.


Originally Posted by CutterJohn View Post
Just to be clear, you're saying advantages are ok so long as people have to pay for them? Imagine if some hardware configuration or special software were able to give people 20% more dps or something.

Granted, FOV isn't a huge advantage. But I'd like to see it treated consistently. If disabling your cockpit is too big of an advantage to allow, then 3 monitors and TrackIR are most definitely too big to allow.

*sigh*

No, I actually never said one way or the other whether I thought such hardware advantages were "OK." I merely stated that having such an advantage wasn't a good comparison to having a cockpit toggle. You see, a toggle is something 100% provided by SOE, would be understood and available to 100% of the playerbase, and could be used by one simple in-game option. Thus it can and IMO should be easily controlled and "balanced" by the Devs.

However, hardware advantages absolutely saturate the playerbase of the PC gaming industry. Every single piece of hardware in your PC that is used by the game has the potential to give you some sort of advantage over others, whether it be a higher monitor resolution, greater framerates from a faster CPU/GPU, lower ping/ploss from a better ISP, better 3D imaging from a good sound system, more button options on your mouse, etc.

And "just to be clear," no I don't think it's fair. It is, however, an accepted reality of PC gaming culture. Gamers spend literally billions of dollars improving their rigs in the quest to gain these "accepted" advantages, and attempting to limit it for things that don't fundamentally change the mechanics of the game in question is a dangerous path to go down from a marketing standpoint, and is also an exercise in futility. And in the case of things like 3 monitors or TrackIR, it'd be even more stupid for SOE to prevent the usage of such hardware advantages since such technologies would better show off the capabilities of Forgelight.

Thus it is, IMO, a bad comparison.




Originally Posted by CutterJohn View Post
Because your window to the world is already restricted enough just because its on a monitor. And then they aren't content with just having a minimal instrument panel, they have to have super thick bracing that does nothing, even in sci fi games that take place long after they figured out the whole bubble canopy thing and just have poor designs.

Like Tie Fighter.



Am I too believe they couldn't put a single pane of glass there and get rid of the spider web? Its ridiculous.

I've been disabling the cockpit view in every game I've played that allowed it(and most did) since this:



Now a game that is not a flight simulator is trying to act all hardcore, when its not been an issue for any other game for years, including proper flight sims, or its predecessor. And everyone else is defending it based on the immersive qualities of poor sci fi design.
These are all very good points, and I've changed my mind about forcing the cockpit on every1. I wish I could change my vote in the pool... I agree that people should be allowed to disable the cockpit so long as there's some sort of downside (like disabling mouselook as you pointed out). This way both settings give up something in the way of visibility.

They're HUD sidegrades, if you will.


Originally Posted by CutterJohn View Post
Right. Disabling a cockpit view is too much of an advantage. But TrackIR is not. Completely illogical.
See my rant, above.
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