Regenerating Health?...Why?

[MrBloodworth]

Originally Posted by Coreldan

Yes, and the question is.. is that a good design?

Yes. For a war game. No, for a session based shooter.

[Kalbuth]

Originally Posted by wasdie

...

Ouch!
"There is actually more content in FPSs today than in the FPSs of yesteryear"
[...]
"throw a lot more content at you"
Really, ouch!
I don't know how I should interpret this.
What content, exactly? Single player things? Awww, yes, there's perhaps more scenes, moving objects, artwork, surrounding you in today's FPS.
There's less challenge, in the other hand, because games apparently should cater to people that cannot stand a challenge.
BF3 & consorts (and mind you, I like BF3) singleplayer today is a kind of movie where devs sometimes gives you control (but the scene as a whole won't change). Not much more.
You can call that "more content".
If it's more multiplayer content, please, list it.

There are tons of games far faster than so called realistic CoD/BF where devs managed to challenge players by making them plan their game on the fly. Planning, support, isn't antinomian to fast gameplay.

Your description of perfect modern game looks like this to me : Spawn, rush (or be late), spamspamspam, die, rince, repeat. Thinking about what you're going to do, doing anything else that shooting, is apparently prohibited. The faster you go, the faster you gain ground, that's how you win.

Just a point : having support classes in game isn't going to make the mindless zergling gameplay to disappear. It's not a threat to your precious fast gameplay (btw, no, CoD isn't fast)

[Coreldan]

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

Yes. For a war game. No, for a session based shooter.

I don't baseline agree.

"War game" and "session based shooters" arnt really different in this manner. You are gonna be equally pissed off about having to run with 1 hp in both types of games. The fact that one game is persistant while the other isn't has sort of very little to do with this exact topic, if you ask me. Maybe if the sessions were truely short enough that the thing would be irrelevant, but that's rarely the case in say.. BF3.

But I once again want to say that I'm not the number 1 advocate for health regen. I don't like it, but it annoys me less than being forced to run around with no health for potentially very long times. I find myself cursing that in games more often than the fact they would have some sort of slow health regen.

[Redshift]

Originally Posted by Bobby Shaftoe

Now, oh i'll let regen kick in whilst I cap.

There's still no decision though. With medics as their own class this time round you're either a medic, in which case you can choose to heal yourself or you're not a medic in which case you hack the term. This would not change regardless of the OOC heal or not.

The OOC heal has little to no effect on combat.

[Rbstr]

I think we need health anti-regen.
If you get shot without your shield you just bleed health until you die. Medics may apply bandages, but you have to go visit the hospital for several months afterward.

This will be more fun, think of all the additional teamplay the doctor class will bring!

[CutterJohn]

Originally Posted by Bobby Shaftoe

Whilst in PS1 a nearly dead max... was still, a nearly dead MAX 3:30 later.

It was the only unit in the game that was unable to effect self repairs in any capacity, except for the repair pads that were extremely inconveniently located. All infantry could heal/rep, or just swap kit for free. All vehicle drivers had eng, plus lodes/pads/etc sprinkled around liberally.


In fact.. Someone describe to be in explicit detail the difference between self repair and drivers being engy.

[Neksar]

Wasdie has brought to light some very interesting points. You can call it the "lowest common denominator" if you want, but do realize that what's happening here is the same thing that happens with music, or any other entertainment medium. You're basically saying the current generation's stuff sucks, and the older stuff did it better.

Now, I'm all for enjoying Led Zeppelin, Ozzy, AC/DC, and a bunch of other artists that are these days considered dated, but in the end the newer stuff is going to be popular with a younger generation, and I'll still have my older stuff to enjoy. Hell, I find some newer stuff that I've enjoyed. Never thought I'd like any synthetic music, but there's been dubstep I've enjoyed as well.

I am rambling, but my point is this: gaming has moved forward, and the new stuff is not the same as the old, but that doesn't make it bad. The "lowest common denominator" that everyone refers to is going to be complaining about gaming trends in the next 10 years, and that's just something they're going to have to deal with too. Asking them to basically reskin the old Planetside is akin to saying, "Why aren't there more artists like Warrant these days?"

Back on topic, I think the length of time it takes to heal to full has struck a nice balance between the necessity of regenerating health to keep players in the fight, and the tradeoff for how long it takes to get back in. Personally, I will likely duck behind cover only to wait for my shields before poking my head out again, and I'd prefer it if shield regen was noticeably faster than health regen. Make one slower or the other faster; either'd probably work.

[Bobby Shaftoe]

Originally Posted by Coreldan

Yes, and the question is.. is that a good design?

After the massive increase in cert points and unimax bundles, I'm pretty happy that I didn't have to face regenerating Splat MAXs.

It's so bizarre, all the 'super soldier' whiners want to remove self healing, yet they're fine with auto regenerating shields and health and also give it to a class that never did it in the first place! The most support reliant class, now, doesn't have to have any support!

Do you not even see how ridiculous this all is?

[MrBloodworth]

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

In fact.. Someone describe to be in explicit detail the difference between self repair and drivers being engy.

Windows of opportunity, risk, required exposure of the driver, required Materiel ( Not a misspelling for those that never served ).

[CutterJohn]

Originally Posted by Bobby Shaftoe

The most support reliant class, now, doesn't have to have any support!

Do you not even see how ridiculous this all is?

Go sit somewhere for 3 minutes and 30 seconds and don't get shot.

That is what is required to heal the max through regen. Thats a long, long time.


An engy will heal it in 1/4 or less of the time. Support is extremely valuable. Its just not the only option anymore.

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

Windows of opportunity, risk, required exposure of the driver, required Materiel ( Not a misspelling for those that never served ).

25s not being shot, stops if shot, so that covers the window of opportunity.

MAXs have plenty of space to store glue, though I don't think glue exists anymore.

You were never terribly exposed in PS1 since you could instantly jump on board if shot at, the animation being an invulnerable period. Only instakill would get you. Same applies to PS2.

Risk is an acceptable difference, since you can stay on the move and active/alert to threats.

So since its not as risky, it seems fair that its far slower.

[Xyntech]

Originally Posted by Bobby Shaftoe

After the massive increase in cert points and unimax bundles, I'm pretty happy that I didn't have to face regenerating Splat MAXs.

It's so bizarre, all the 'super soldier' whiners want to remove self healing, yet they're fine with auto regenerating shields and health and also give it to a class that never did it in the first place! The most support reliant class, now, doesn't have to have any support!

Do you not even see how ridiculous this all is?

People keep explaining, but you don't want to hear it. I don't care if you disagree, but it's pathetic to not even acknowledge a legitimate different opinion.

Having a medical applicator had what trade off in your loadout? A worthless pistol, or perhaps a small box of ammo at most. That is a very small price to pay. If regenerating health is one of several options in PS2, you may have to give up something a lot more valuable than a small amount of ammo. Oh, and you can't revive players either, kind of a big deal not to have that option just thrown to every player.

I'm not even a super soldier whiner, but I can see the value in separating key support roles from being able to be combined into a single soldier. Regenerating health on the other hand is a personal item, not a support item, and can easily be balanced to be inferior to having a team supporting you.

[Coreldan]

In 3mins 30 seconds, you wouldve been better off just dying, taking a new MAX armor and be back in the field almost faster (naturally depending where fight takes place, etc)

[Masahiko]

Originally Posted by GoldDragon

Health for Stamina - What's the tradeoff this time?

All of the other stuff we have no idea about because we havent played the game but are instead knee-jerking over because we saw it on a stream

[Redshift]

Originally Posted by Bobby Shaftoe

I'm pretty happy that I didn't have to face regenerating Splat MAXs.

This would only be valid if the splattermaxes never had engineers with them in PS1, or if you couldn't hit them at least once every 45 seconds.

Otherwise it makes no difference

[Bobby Shaftoe]

Originally Posted by Redshift

The OOC heal has little to no effect on combat.

EXACTLY, jesus, this is the very point I expound upon yet everyone else says 'hurr super soldiers' OP, they can heal OOC.

Regenerating shields and health are directly equivalent to the med app/eng tool, yet they say in PS1 it's bad whilst PS2 is good, despite the end result being the very same god damn thing!

Christ, it's like the monty python arguement skit, but there's not even 2 people, it's just them having the same contradictory back'n'forth and not even seeing a problem with it!