Surge and Weapons - Page 4

Madcow · 2003-12-22, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by BadAsh

Try playing a "combat" infiltrator and you will see what I mean. I use the NC scatter pistol and I can surge circles around Rexos and even Agiles. Remember the NC scatter pistol is a 3 shot kill at point blank range and if you come undetected from behind you will get at least 2 solid hits before your prey can react...

MagScatter is the only pistol this truly works for, it's COF barely expands while moving. AMP is a bad idea (and so few people are able to spin out of the way of it once the shots begin it's pretty irrelevant), Repeater would take far too many shots (and blooms a good amount) and let's not get into the Beamer.

Of course, this also depends on the victim having a connection equal to yours. I've had a bunch of times that I've been circling behind people firing only to watch them pull the trigger shooting in the wrong direction and killing me. Client side can cause havok with circle strafing, although I also don't normally use surge and the 'warping' may have been enough to keep me alive on their screen.

Madcow · 2003-12-22, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by Nimbus

The warping is really the only problem. I expect to get flanked when I'm in my MAX. Thats a given. However there have been pleanty of times where I'll see some guy head up/down the stairs coming at me and then suddenly, I cant see them anymore but I've just had 3 shots fired into my back. Thats cheap and wrong.
And I seriously doubt it's a connection issue. I don't think you should need a T1 line to fix warping.

That's the talentless clowns jumping, which the patch way back when was supposed to fix and did nothing for. I just figure if you need that you're a hack who needs the stats anyhow, thanks for playing and I'll just respawn.

Doppler · 2003-12-22, 02:55 PM

I dont have much issue with people warping around on me, I dont know what it is that sso special about me, because to be honest I'm never going to see a ping below 150 and my computer stats are excellent but not supercomputer claass. Personally Ill admmit I surge/sweeper a lot, so I'll concede that that could have somethign to do with it, but then again I'm rexo, how the hell else am I gonna close with people.

To those that underestimate the powers of surging cloakers I say pick up a cloak cert, surge and CE, saw a infiltrator get 7+ kills with one boomer just surging through a crowded spawn room, we all saw him go through, but there was no way we could catch him, yea eventualy he ran into someone standing in the door way and promptly ate a lot of shotty ammo but his KtD ratio was sick.

Those that claim agiles need surge, frag you, maybe when they either give rexos more armor, more armor deflection, or drop its cost from the rediculous 3 points will I consider your argument. I mean lets think about this, I can get a powered suit of armor, with 500 and change more armor, for 1 point less as a set of unpowered armor whos main drawing power is a second rifle slot, whos armor deflection generaly isnt sufficent to protect us in a Medium assault versus guy in agile fight, get bent.

infinite loop · 2003-12-22, 03:56 PM

No. JH is worthless w/o surge, whether it's rexo or agile. The strength of the JH is at close range, and w/o the ability to quickly close range on an enemy, us JH users will be nerfed badly. I agree that the warping must be fixed, so let's see if they can accomplish that before we seriously consider nerfing surge. If they can't fix the warping, then I may have to reluctantly agree to it. I want to point out I see as many surging MCG and Lasher users as I do JH users. Bring on the flames.

Hamma · 2003-12-22, 03:57 PM

I figured someone would try to make that argument, its purely false. You will have to adapt and learn how to fight without surge. I assure you its possible, take off surge sometime and try it. And yes, all empires surge and use HA that is not the point here. This poll isnt titled "nerf surge for JH users"

Gigabein · 2003-12-22, 03:59 PM

If HA = close range... and INDOOR FIGHTING = close range, theeennnnn.... 1 + 1 = 2

infinite loop · 2003-12-22, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by Hamma

I figured someone would try to make that argument, its purely false. You will have to adapt and learn how to fight without surge. I assure you its possible, take off surge sometime and try it. And yes, all empires surge and use HA that is not the point here. This poll isnt titled "nerf surge for JH users"

It's not totally false. It is the only method a JH has to make up for it's weakness at range. For people w/o the ability to carry a gauss and JH (rexo), surge is their only alternative. Personally, I don't surgile much, only when I tower drop. I'm a hardcore rexo grunt, but I still use surge in rexo. The gauss is uselss indoors, and the JH sucks down hallways. Without surge the NC would have no hope at that medium indoors range. I realize it's not a nerf surging n00bhammers thread, I apologize, just get tired of those threads, and am a bit defensive sometimes. The only way I agree to it is if they increase the effective range of the JH to match the MCG and Lasher.

Gigabein · 2003-12-22, 04:04 PM

so you can 1-shot kill people with alt-fire at midrange?

BlackHawk · 2003-12-22, 04:23 PM

How about they just drop the three barrel alt-fire altogether and make the JH similar to the ScatMax weapon? Three modes: one for close, medium and long range each.

Neon Apocalypse · 2003-12-22, 04:32 PM

Hell no! Surge should be kept as it is, what do think they put it there for. I think surge makes the game alot more fun, and if you cant take out guys using surge learn to aim, because i can take them out. Seriously guys, its like you're all saying, "i admit im a n00b." , because n00bs complain about getting owned. If you keep getting owned by surge y not use it. you have the same advantage as the other person, it all depends on whether u want to use it.

Madcow · 2003-12-22, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by Neon Apocalypse

Hell no! Surge should be kept as it is, what do think they put it there for. I think surge makes the game alot more fun, and if you cant take out guys using surge learn to aim, because i can take them out. Seriously guys, its like you're all saying, "i admit im a n00b." , because n00bs complain about getting owned. If you keep getting owned by surge y not use it. you have the same advantage as the other person, it all depends on whether u want to use it.

I think the noob would be the person who doesn't realize that with client side hit detection you can literally make yourself disappear (which is what tons of people are doing). Taking advantage of a software limitation isn't exactly something that I plan on doing, I'd rather get kills legitimately and spawn a few more times to guys who aren't good enough to actually play the game. They've already tried (and failed) to fix the hit detection on surge users, enough is enough. At least take it out until they can figure out what to do with it, leaving things hanging is just poor judgement.

Gigabein · 2003-12-22, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by Neon Apocalypse

Hell no! Surge should be kept as it is, what do think they put it there for. I think surge makes the game alot more fun, and if you cant take out guys using surge learn to aim, because i can take them out. Seriously guys, its like you're all saying, "i admit im a n00b." , because n00bs complain about getting owned. If you keep getting owned by surge y not use it. you have the same advantage as the other person, it all depends on whether u want to use it.

You obviously missed everything that was ever mentioned about character warping, and the FACT that there is a balance problem.

Veteran · 2003-12-22, 04:47 PM

Perfectly stated, Madcow.

Queensidecastle · 2003-12-22, 04:57 PM

However there ALREADY is a meathod in the game to control Surge. It's called the Stamina bar. There isnt any reason whatsoever to add an additional layer to control the surge implant. It would be a hack to the game code when all that is needed is to tweak the system for controlling Surge that is already in place. In other words, its mostly a balance pass on a tweak to stamina as related to the surge implant. Far less of a negative impact to the gamers that just turning off an implant.

Katanaboy · 2003-12-22, 05:22 PM

Even if they couldn't surge as long, they'd still be surging, and warping all around your screen as you tried to fight them. Also, there isn't that much of a chance of them running out, since a surging HA can take you out in 4-5 seconds if he can aim straight.

Also, what's wrong with not being able to surge with a weapon out? Surge to close in the distance, then turn it off, whip out your weapon, and fire away.

And, to those who say JH is completely worthless at range, so are all the other empire's HA. Both the lasher and MCG have a CoF the size of Arkansas, when sitting still.

View Poll Results: Disable surge while weapon is drawn?
Yes	53	71.62%
No	21	28.38%
Voters: 74. You may not vote on this poll