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Old 2011-07-28, 02:00 PM   [Ignore Me] #46
Rbstr
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Re: Will everyone have access to some AV/anti-MAX weaponry?


I don't get what the problem is. If MAXes are good vs. infantry, people will use them. If the AV is strong vs. MAXes (combined with non-av not being very good against them) and MAXes are present people will use it.

If you're a party of infantry without AV and you run into some maxes...why shouldn't you get stomped? It's your own damn fault for not bringing any AV. MAx kills normal infantry, infantry kills AV troops, AV troops kill maxes.

Substitute Max for vehicle or tank and it still works. I don't get the problem here.
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Old 2011-07-28, 03:50 PM   [Ignore Me] #47
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Re: Will everyone have access to some AV/anti-MAX weaponry?


Originally Posted by Rbstr View Post
I don't get what the problem is. If MAXes are good vs. infantry, people will use them. If the AV is strong vs. MAXes (combined with non-av not being very good against them) and MAXes are present people will use it.

If you're a party of infantry without AV and you run into some maxes...why shouldn't you get stomped? Its you're own damn fault for not bringing any AV. MAx kills normal infantry, infantry kills AV troops, AV troops kill maxes.

Substitute Max for vehicle or tank and it still works. I don't get the problem here.
This.
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Old 2011-07-28, 04:06 PM   [Ignore Me] #48
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Re: Will everyone have access to some AV/anti-MAX weaponry?


Originally Posted by Rbstr View Post
I don't get what the problem is. If MAXes are good vs. infantry, people will use them. If the AV is strong vs. MAXes (combined with non-av not being very good against them) and MAXes are present people will use it.

If you're a party of infantry without AV and you run into some maxes...why shouldn't you get stomped? Its you're own damn fault for not bringing any AV. MAx kills normal infantry, infantry kills AV troops, AV troops kill maxes.

Substitute Max for vehicle or tank and it still works. I don't get the problem here.
First of all, it's "your own damn Vault". Get it right.

Secondly, you are 100% right. One of the cool things about Planetside is that it had this rock, paper, scissors aspect to it. Everything had a counter to it, so while things like Max Crashes and Bombing Raids worked good for short term results, the best fights always come from combined arms.
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Old 2011-07-28, 04:14 PM   [Ignore Me] #49
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Re: Will everyone have access to some AV/anti-MAX weaponry?


That it is, I'm usually pretty good about catching that one.

At any rate, that's the thing, right? If you notice the other team has no AV, you throw maxes at them for massive damage. Lots of maxes? AV time.

If it's set up properly, a giant max crash could be rather effective at first, depening on how many AV they're up against - may be even win the battle outright (owing to the organization getting everyone in a max suit needs), but if it keeps going the AV troops should be showing up and repelling it.
Doubly so because a max can't heal itself.

That being said...I do support some light-weight AV that troops could carry. But it would be along the lines of the HA trooper carrying an rifle + the LAW instead of a heavy AI weapon (while AV troops would likely get an SMG or carbine)

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Old 2011-07-28, 04:19 PM   [Ignore Me] #50
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Re: Will everyone have access to some AV/anti-MAX weaponry?


I think you're viewing this from a narrow perspective. Not everyone will be part of a pre-organized squad/platoon.

If you're a random player in a random squad, why should you be the AV guy (and possibly be gimped during most of the fight)? Who decides that, and who exactly is to blame when MAXes steamroll through your group? Was everyone stupid? Would everyone be stupid if too many people chose an AV class that is less effective against regular infantry? Should randoms be punished because they play the game on a different level? I don't think so.

Hopefully MAXes won't be near-impervious to small arms fire. If they are, they would be the only infantry class that needs a direct counter, and that would just be wrong.
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Old 2011-07-28, 04:32 PM   [Ignore Me] #51
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Re: Will everyone have access to some AV/anti-MAX weaponry?


Originally Posted by FIREk View Post
I think you're viewing this from a narrow perspective. Not everyone will be part of a pre-organized squad/platoon.

If you're a random player in a random squad, why should you be the AV guy (and possibly be gimped during most of the fight)? Who decides that, and who exactly is to blame when MAXes steamroll through your group? Was everyone stupid? Would everyone be stupid if too many people chose an AV class that is less effective against regular infantry? Should randoms be punished because they play the game on a different level? I don't think so.

Hopefully MAXes won't be near-impervious to small arms fire. If they are, they would be the only infantry class that needs a direct counter, and that would just be wrong.
Don't take this the wrong way, but from my point of view, it looks like you are viewing it from a narrow perspective. Planetside isn't about 1 squad versus another, it's about squads upon squads of people all battling each other. So across that many people, you will see different "classes". It happens naturally just as it does in Planetside.

So for example, if you are defending a base, you see a Commander shout out, "Incoming Max Crash" well a certain number of people will switch to their loadout to counter the Maxes. Obviously not everyone will run and grab a deci, but if enough people do, the MCT fails, if enough people don't the MCT will crush. Not everything has to be totally organized to still work, in fact the chaos is part of the fun.
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Old 2011-07-28, 04:35 PM   [Ignore Me] #52
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Re: Will everyone have access to some AV/anti-MAX weaponry?


Originally Posted by Bags View Post
I hate forcing teamwork via classes. I don't see why a heavy grunt can't carry his MCG and Deci.
This. The variety present in PS1 (except eveyone and their mother using their heavy assault weapons in slot 2) is actually what makes teamwork so viable. The fluidity that each member brings to the table is increased by the variation between them, and also allows for greater tactical abilities and overall cohesion.

Whew, big words.
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Old 2011-07-28, 05:19 PM   [Ignore Me] #53
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Re: Will everyone have access to some AV/anti-MAX weaponry?


Originally Posted by Vancha View Post
Source?

Of course you're probably right, but I think people are being far too assumptive in here.
One who makes a definitive claim of the like should always provide some source or backing regardless...

Besides have any of the devs even divulged any information in regards to maxes? I think not, certainly not from the last panel they've been in..
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Old 2011-07-28, 05:25 PM   [Ignore Me] #54
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Re: Will everyone have access to some AV/anti-MAX weaponry?


Originally Posted by FIREk View Post

Hopefully MAXes won't be near-impervious to small arms fire. If they are, they would be the only infantry class that needs a direct counter, and that would just be wrong.
Y'see, this is the problem with people and MAXes (and most lighter vehicles actually they've ingrained into their heads that you either fight them with AV or die. Seriously, even if your whole squad is just packing MA loaded with standard ammo, shoot the ****ing thing, it goes down quick to 10 guys unloading on it. They have about as much life as a harasser or a mossy (which amounts to very little actually) Now, admittedly, a MAX crash will ruin your day, but even with everyone loaded with AV it can get messy. It's not like they keel over in one decimator rocket.

Hell, a full magazine of AP ammo from the Cycler is enough to completely destroy an unshielded mossy.

Originally Posted by Krowe View Post
This. The variety present in PS1 (except eveyone and their mother using their heavy assault weapons in slot 2) is actually what makes teamwork so viable. The fluidity that each member brings to the table is increased by the variation between them, and also allows for greater tactical abilities and overall cohesion.

Whew, big words.
If by variation you mean which slots your med app and glue-gun go in and which slots your AV and HA go in, I agree. Except more often than not, I've seen if one is a foot soldier, they're often a rexo packing HA/AV/Med/Engi. If they're expecting longer range fights, they may trade either the AV or the HA (typically HA) for either an MA or a Bolt-driver. Either way, there is always 2 tools strapped to just about every soldier in the field: the med app and the glue gun. In my opinion classes are great because they fix this major factor of the one-man army/super soldiers we see today.
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Old 2011-07-28, 05:29 PM   [Ignore Me] #55
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Re: Will everyone have access to some AV/anti-MAX weaponry?


Honestly, I just hope the Striker (in its Planetside function) doesn't make a return. Its effectiveness and usefulness is limited, the most I use it for is to make Light Aircraft shit their pants.
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Old 2011-07-29, 03:47 AM   [Ignore Me] #56
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Re: Will everyone have access to some AV/anti-MAX weaponry?


Originally Posted by Krowe View Post
Honestly, I just hope the Striker (in its Planetside function) doesn't make a return. Its effectiveness and usefulness is limited, the most I use it for is to make Light Aircraft shit their pants.
What's the alternative to a simple lock-on weapon, though? The NC already have their camera-guided missiles, the VS have direct LoS beams... Is there any other guidance scheme in g ames?

The AT4 from BFBC2 is nice, but it's pretty skill-heavy when you're trying to hit a moving target. And hitting a barely moving chopper is hard enough, not to mention a Mossie blitzing across the battlefield.
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Old 2011-07-29, 04:04 AM   [Ignore Me] #57
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Re: Will everyone have access to some AV/anti-MAX weaponry?


Originally Posted by FIREk View Post
And hitting a barely moving chopper is hard enough, not to mention a Mossie blitzing across the battlefield.
Hitting juking fast movers sucks for NC and VS. Might as well have TR join the club.
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Old 2011-07-29, 06:27 AM   [Ignore Me] #58
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Re: Will everyone have access to some AV/anti-MAX weaponry?


Cannons! Guided by your hand. Like a burster but faster projectiles and no or very small explovesive.

Have an awesome balance curve where lighter aircraft natually don't get hit if the pilot moves around where as bigger ones need thier armour to take the hits.

Much better than crappy lockon crap.
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Old 2011-07-29, 07:59 AM   [Ignore Me] #59
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Re: Will everyone have access to some AV/anti-MAX weaponry?


Originally Posted by exLupo View Post
Hitting juking fast movers sucks for NC and VS. Might as well have TR join the club.
Have you played BFBC2 and used the AT4? The VS and NC at least have proper aiming mechanisms, like a camera and crosshair. Hitting a fast-moving (let alone flying) target with an AT4 guided missile is pretty abstract. You aim somewhere in front of the target, while actually looking at the missile itself to see what the result is. So you're not so much aiming, as forcing an object to go where you want it to go, with no aiming mechanism or depth perception to helo you. No comparison with a Phoenix or Lancer.

Of course if the new Striker required more precise aiming to "paint" the target, and the missiles were more maneuverable than the AT4, the problem would be gone.


Originally Posted by Aractain View Post
Cannons! Guided by your hand. Like a burster but faster projectiles and no or very small explovesive.
(...)
I thought about this today. It kind of fits the TR mentality, actually. Think of the anti-tank rifles the Russians used in WWII. Make them rapid-fire and make their projectiles blow up (a bit) in proximity to aircraft and it gets pretty cool.

Last edited by FIREk; 2011-07-29 at 08:02 AM.
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Old 2011-07-29, 08:30 AM   [Ignore Me] #60
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Re: Will everyone have access to some AV/anti-MAX weaponry?


Originally Posted by FIREk View Post
What's the alternative to a simple lock-on weapon, though? The NC already have their camera-guided missiles, the VS have direct LoS beams... Is there any other guidance scheme in g ames?
Laser-guided, a la HL2 rocket launchers (when you fight the helicopter things)?

Explosion on demand? Fire once to fire, fire again to detonate? Or even have detonate be a secondary fire (not a secondary fire mode) so you can fire multiple rockets and detonate them in a line?

A flak-type "explosion upon proximity" effect?

And then of course various types of arcs...

Beyond that you could probably come up with any number of convoluted delivery systems. Take the scorpion and remove the minimum height requirement and you have an AV that you're purposely firing above the heads of the entities you want it to hit.

Speaking of AV, I'd love to see some kind of "rebound" mechanic similar to the Pyro's compression blast in TF2 (though I imagine it wouldn't work against anything but infantry and MAX AV).
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