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Old 2013-06-14, 08:04 PM   [Ignore Me] #1
Hamma
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GU11 Weapon and Resource Tuning Changes


Posted on OF:
https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/...hanges.134128/

The below are the major weapon and vehicle changes planned for GU011.

Vehicle and MAX Resource Costs
  • The majority of vehicles and the MAX units will be getting a resource cost increase with this update. The new values are based on data that we have collected from the Live servers, and our goal is to even out the resource costs with their related income rates.
    • New Costs:
    • Flash: 150
    • Sunderer: 400
    • Lightning: 400
    • Magrider: 450
    • Vanguard: 450
    • Prowler: 450
    • Scythe: 250
    • Reaver: 250
    • Mosquito: 250
    • Liberator: 350
    • Galaxy: 350
    • Harasser: 400
    • MAX: 350
MAX Abilities
  • The Burster buffs when using the VS ZOE and TR Lockdown abilities will be reduced.
  • The damage received when the VS ZOE ability is active will be getting increased.
  • Note: The timer currently on the test server for the ZOE ability is not planned to go live.
Shotguns
  • All shotguns will be getting a small reduction in damage per pellet. The goal with this change is to reduce slop while keeping the effective kill ranges of the shotguns the same. So glancing hits and spamming without aiming will not be as rewarding, but well-aimed shots should just be as effective as before.
  • The default ammo count on the pump-action shotguns will be dropping from 5 to 4 rounds. This brings their potential kills per magazine and kills over time more in line with the other weapon classes.
Faction Heavy Weapons
  • All faction weapons will be getting a pass to make them more effective at their various roles.
  • Jackhammer: The ammunition capacity of this weapon is being increased to 9 rounds. Also, the burst mode will be gaining a rate of fire increase.
  • MCG: The fire delay is being removed. Instead, the weapon will fire immediately and the rate of fire will ramp up over time. The hip accuracy is being adjusted to better allow sustained fire.
  • Lasher: This weapon will receive a rate of fire increase and a slight damage buff, which should allow it to be viable in more situations. Also, ally players will no longer take the full AOE damage.
IRNV Scopes
  • We feel that the current downsides to this optic (less visibility at range) are negligible when compared to its benefits. We’re going to be adding a very small delay before the night vision is active and a small amount of scope sway to better balance the attachment out.
Flak
  • Bursters will be getting an accuracy penalty when moving and COF bloom is being added over sustained fire. The goal with this change is keep them just as effective at near range while dropping their effectiveness at extreme ranges (300+ meters).
  • Skyguards will be getting a projectile speed increase and other stat changes to make them better at range.
Vulcan
  • The Vulcan has been updated to be more effective at range and now has a larger clip size.
  • In addition, it has been given a spin up time. The Vulcan still fires during the spin up time, but at a reduced rate.
Sunderer Deployment
  • Facilities and Outposts on Indar and Amerish now have Sunderer No Deploy Zones. These function just the like No Deploy Radius around allied deployed Sunderers. These zones prevent you from parking your Sunderer right on top of the capture points. You’ll have to fight to the capture points on foot.
Edit: Forgot one. Edit 2: Spelling
Underbarrel Attachments
  • These have been removed from the weapon selection list and are now mapped to the primary weapon key. Press 1 to swap between the weapon and its attachment.
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Last edited by Hamma; 2013-06-14 at 08:11 PM.
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Old 2013-06-14, 08:05 PM   [Ignore Me] #2
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Re: GU11 Weapon and Resource Tuning Changes


Beat you slightly DirtyBird :P
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Old 2013-06-14, 08:08 PM   [Ignore Me] #3
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Re: GU11 Weapon and Resource Tuning Changes


Yeah I saw mine up and was editing it to say they are only planned and not official yet.
Mine was prettier tho wasnt it
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Old 2013-06-14, 08:19 PM   [Ignore Me] #4
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Re: GU11 Weapon and Resource Tuning Changes


So after actually reading it there are some changes prosposed to quell tears but there are quite a few that might create some new tears.

Costs are extreme, 150 for a flash.
And those who run the lolpodder/Spam Cannon/MAX rotation might have to duke it out on foot for a while to increase the resources IF they die fast enough.
But in all reality it probably wont bother them that much.
They've pretty much mastered it by now and even this increase wont hindered those who rely on it.
I only see it effecting those newer to the rotation.

The Jackhammer could get interesting.

Adios IRNV.

Skyguard makes a possible come back.
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Old 2013-06-14, 08:21 PM   [Ignore Me] #5
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Re: GU11 Weapon and Resource Tuning Changes


Interesting changes. Will have to see how they turn out, but nice to see the heavy weapon tweaks, under-barrel change is AWESOME and.. resource changes??? I thought SOE forgot about them. Vehicles might actually stop coming once you kill a bunch of them for once.

I would have rather had the 8 second fuel charge on ZOE than take more damage while active I think. Oh well.
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Old 2013-06-14, 08:54 PM   [Ignore Me] #6
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Re: GU11 Weapon and Resource Tuning Changes


Finally the MCG might be pretty damn good, I mean it was allright but that bullet delay really sucks considering the fast TTK on weapons.

Glad the shotguns got a small nerf.


As for vehicles being worth more resources......

On one had is good because vehicles will be more valuable.....on the other hand people with 100% Resource Boost are gonna have a bigger advantage now.
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Old 2013-06-14, 08:57 PM   [Ignore Me] #7
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Re: GU11 Weapon and Resource Tuning Changes


Vehicle/MAX cost seem a bit extreme, and the sundy should not cost as much as a harasser when it is so much more useful, not to mention larger. And if they're going to increase how much they cost they could have decreased the acquisition timer to make them more resource dependent.
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Old 2013-06-14, 09:09 PM   [Ignore Me] #8
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Re: GU11 Weapon and Resource Tuning Changes


the ZOE max already makes him soak up so much damage when he gets hit. now he will just melt xD rendering it useless... but ok
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Old 2013-06-14, 09:12 PM   [Ignore Me] #9
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Re: GU11 Weapon and Resource Tuning Changes


Resource cost being pushed up: Step in the right direction
Note: The timer currently on the test server for the ZOE ability is not planned to go live.
Thank Higgles, the vanu can at least still have their super-soldiers albiet slightly nerfed... still think it shouldn't be nerfed at all...

Bursters will be getting an accuracy penalty when moving and COF bloom is being added over sustained fire. The goal with this change is keep them just as effective at near range while dropping their effectiveness at extreme ranges (300+ meters).
Skyguards will be getting a projectile speed increase and other stat changes to make them better at range.
Gut. Vary gut.
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Old 2013-06-14, 09:18 PM   [Ignore Me] #10
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Re: GU11 Weapon and Resource Tuning Changes


Hmmm, Sundy no deploy zones!
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Old 2013-06-14, 09:18 PM   [Ignore Me] #11
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Re: GU11 Weapon and Resource Tuning Changes


I think they should have tried raising the resource costs in increments, instead of all at once. I think that they'll find that players react to marginal changes in economy, and even moreso for major changes.

It's very likely that the tankers will switch to air instead, where the costs are less extreme. Liberators are already flying tanks, but with less costs.

I do like that the MAX's got an increase in costs. They have been extremely formidable since they were buffed, to the point where the other classes were at a major disadvantage when one entered the battle, much less four. The new cost structure will decrease their numbers somewhat.

The only thing that I don't like about the no-deploy zone thing is that they can't be destroyed. Combined arms means that everyone works together. Infantry goes in and busts the generators so that vehicles can roll in. When they implement the domes, I hope they will also allow infantry to take them out, so that friendly air can support them.
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Old 2013-06-14, 09:32 PM   [Ignore Me] #12
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Re: GU11 Weapon and Resource Tuning Changes


I don't see players who've spent dozens if not hundreds of hours decking out their tanks abandoning them to pilot some naked aircraft, just because of resources.

I do see them being far, far more careful with their vehicles, though. Which is a good thing. This will cut down on the vehicle spam, and MORE IMPORTANTLY, will justify toning down anti-vehicle weapons so that tanks can be durable like tanks again.
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Old 2013-06-14, 09:51 PM   [Ignore Me] #13
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Re: GU11 Weapon and Resource Tuning Changes


(going to be a lot of caps lock rage. I need to vent this shit)

ANOTHER SHOTGUN NERF!

WHAT THE FUCK?! If this also hits the NC MAX AI weapons then they are KILLING a class. NC MAXes STILL have NO options other than shotguns. They are already to a point where only ONE weapon is able to kill another MAX before a reload, the Grinder. NO other NC MAX weapon can kill a MAX without reloading or spending AT LEAST 500 certs for extended mags.

This isn't like bitching about some small ZOE nerf. That is a pure optional choice to make a player better in a certain role. ZOE is CHOICE, NC MAXes have NO CHOICE AT ALL with what they use for AI weapons.


Iv done the math and tested the weapons by way of the VR room in game. Stock NC MAXes CAN NOT kill another MAX WITHOUT being UNDER 10m AND have at least 1 Grinder. The numbers just are not there for them to do the damage needed before the fucking reload is needed. ON TOP of the EXTREMELY limited range compared to TR and VS MAXes. You want to see the math?

Here is as close as I can get to the true DPS numbers for a Dual Hacksaw MAX and a dual Mercy MAX at 0m, 10m, and 20m ranges. This shit was not easy to find out! Also here is the link to the PS2 forums where I detailed my math over some posts and tweaked it after either finding better ways to do it or fixing a fuckup. Starts at post 591
https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/...103047/page-30

This is what I got so far and it is rather damning against the dual Hacksaw MAX.



Mercy v MAX-
0m - 80 bullets.
80 / 14.2 = 5.63 second kill time
80 * 125 = 10,000 damage
0 misses
10,000 / 5.63 = 1776.19 DPS on target

10m - 76 bullets (random head shots with every test made the number lower. Every test had this)
76 / 14.2 = 5.35 second kill time
0 misses + random headshots, or enough headshot to more than counter misses. Don't know
10,000 / 5.35 = 1869.15 DPS on target

20m - 107 bullets
107 / 14.2 = 7.53 + 3(reload) = 10.53 second kill time
107 - 80 = 27 misses
10,000 / 10.53 = 949.66 DPS on target


Hacksaw v MAX-
0m - 13 shells
13 / 6.96 = 1.86 + 4(reload) = 5.86 second kill time
0 misses
10,000 / 5.86 = 1,706.48 DPS on target

10m - 19 shells
19 / 6.96 = 2.72 + 4(reload) = 6.72 second kill time
19 * (101.7*6) = 11,593.8 damage - 10,000 = 1,593.8 missed damage
1,593.8 / 101.7 = 15.67 pellets missed / 6 = 2.61 shells missed
10,000 / 6.72 = 1,488.09 DPS on target

20m - 78 shells
78 / 6.96 = 11.2 + (4*6)(reloads) = 35.2 second kill time
78 * (50*6) = 23,400 damage - 10,000 = 13,400 missed damage
13,400 / 50 = 268 pellets missed / 6 = 44.66 shells missed
10,000 / 35.2 = 284.09 DPS on target


In WHAT way is a dual Hacksaw MAX better than a dual Mercy MAX according to those numbers? If you want I can do the math for Mattocks as well as I have a video of them still. But if you want the math for any other MAX AI weapon I'll need time to make a testing video, upload it, then do all the needed math for each one. Just remember that NOTHING a NC MAX will have can kill a MAX before a reload is needed but for a WELL certed weapon (500-1,000 extra certs) or using at least 1 Grinder.

Shotguns are NOT that good! Why the fuck do people think they are? They have NEVER been a problem for me because they just DON"T HAVE THE RANGE NEEDED to be a use outside of near perfect conditions.

Edit-
With all ground things costing a lot more res now, is C4 going to stay at 100? Its kinda cheap to have such a strong counter to so much ground vehicles and MAXes be so low on cost compared to the cost of what all it is the counter for.
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Old 2013-06-14, 10:35 PM   [Ignore Me] #14
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Re: GU11 Weapon and Resource Tuning Changes


So, now it is no longer viable to get a flash to go from point A to point B without walking.
Maybe, if your Flash is unarmed, you could get it for 25 points as it was before!
We know that lots of people are using cloaked Flash + grenade launcher to get lots of kills all day long, I am ok in F! everyone on the server to stop that, but I think my solution is better, give an unarmed Flash, a price reduction.
Maybe, in a far future, the end cost of vehicles will be calculated on the weapons on it, so people who doesn't have friends and don´t live the lighting, can get a prowler with just one weapon for a reduced price.
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Old 2013-06-14, 10:36 PM   [Ignore Me] #15
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Re: GU11 Weapon and Resource Tuning Changes


Originally Posted by Artalion View Post
The only thing that I don't like about the no-deploy zone thing is that they can't be destroyed. Combined arms means that everyone works together. Infantry goes in and busts the generators so that vehicles can roll in. When they implement the domes, I hope they will also allow infantry to take them out, so that friendly air can support them.
Yeah, I'd rather there had be a Generator for that too...

...I even would have been fine with it being tied INTO the the Dome Shields, with the explanation that it's some kind of Combination Jamming Antenna/Shield Emitter.
Then again, I don't think they are doing anything about Squad Beacon interference, and those kind of break these wide open Bases anyways...

Originally Posted by BlaxicanX View Post
I do see them being far, far more careful with their vehicles, though. Which is a good thing. This will cut down on the vehicle spam, and MORE IMPORTANTLY, will justify toning down anti-vehicle weapons so that tanks can be durable like tanks again.
Or maybe to increase their viability, MBTs are going to separate the Driver from the Main Cannon and let them actually DRIVE!
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