Systems: E-Sport - Page 4

The Degenatron · 2012-07-02, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by OutlawDr

Basically what you want are spectating options. 600 players I think you'll run into situations where there are many times players than spectators. Plus like I said, with 600 players you basically just created a mini continent.

No, something more along the size of the E3 demo play area.

Originally Posted by OutlawDr

Wait.... Are you suggesting only having a single 600 player instance for the entire game? That would be a cluster if it is. How do you determine who gets in?

Yes and no. Four maps running on a 6 hour cycle. So at 12pm Map A runs, at 1:30pm Map B runs, at 3:00pm Map C runs, and at 4:30pm Map D runs. The cycle sarts back a Map A at 6pm. Only one map at a time.

Players would get in first come, first served. Outfits could reserve slots that would get filled in if they weren't filled by the Outfit.

Planetside isn't your standard FPS. It's rediculous to try to squeeze it into a tiny format like 7v7 or 12v12. Forgelight has longer legs than that and it wants to strut.

Originally Posted by super pretendo

What's wrong with it is it just homogenizes the game into the grey blob of every other online shooter. We don't need that. The game should be kept as its niche vision. Niches make money. There is no MMOFPS besides planetside currently, and a lot of players want it. There are 100+ SUPER ESPORTS MOUNTAIN DEW(TM) COOL FROSTED SPIKE HAIR DUBSTEP420 shooters. So your attempt to veil your desire turn this into another copy-pasted gunshootin' game is betrayed by your goofy fucking business advice.

Wow dude, get a grip. Settle down Beavis. Tell me, how many other "copy-pasta shooters" feature 600 player battles? None? So there goes your argument right there. My "goofy business advice"? What does THAT mean? It's a FACT that Free-to-Play models require a constant flow of new players and the ability to retain players, and to entice players to spend. I'm not making this up. Don't try to critique me when you obviously don't know.

Additional game modes allow for greater appeal. Again, you don't have to participate. You act as if I've said "just scrap those 8x8k maps! Who needs 'em?!" Which of course, I haven't. So take a deep breath and try to be rational.

super pretendo · 2012-07-02, 09:38 PM

so, if anyone disagrees with you they need to get a grip? and the fact that you rephrased that like, four times speaks volumes about your flustered state of mind, lol, where the fuck do they get these people. SOMEONE GET THIS GUY A BEER

and all of the income of all F2P games comes from a small group of the most hardcore players; as the game becomes less casual and more meaningful (players feel more is at stake between play session) the amount of payers gets more concentrated. At least this is what the LoL guys say, and if I trust them about anything it's making money.

Don't think you're smarter than experts that get hired for this thing

The Degenatron · 2012-07-02, 11:20 PM

Originally Posted by super pretendo

so, if anyone disagrees with you they need to get a grip? and the fact that you rephrased that like, four times speaks volumes about your flustered state of mind, lol, where the fuck do they get these people. SOMEONE GET THIS GUY A BEER

and all of the income of all F2P games comes from a small group of the most hardcore players; as the game becomes less casual and more meaningful (players feel more is at stake between play session) the amount of payers gets more concentrated. At least this is what the LoL guys say, and if I trust them about anything it's making money.

Don't think you're smarter than experts that get hired for this thing

I have no problem with people disagreeing with me. I tell you to get a grip because you need to. You're way to high-stung. Just relax.

I don't think the LoL model of "a small core of funders" will work well for Planetside. While SOE can mimic the same style of store-front, SOE needs to go for a wider base of smaller transactions because the overhead for Planetside is far greater. SOE isn't running a match maker and a player database, they're running at the very least three servers capable of 2000 players each. The bandwidth cost alone has got to be astronomical. Because of that, they have to keep a wide and steady steam of new players so that a larger percentage will parchase.

Oh yea, you're the guy who e-mailed Smed to tell him Planetside should be pay2win. And now your angle is to cater to the narrowest demographic possible? You got a lot of nerve accusing me of acting like I know more than the professionals.

super pretendo · 2012-07-03, 12:27 AM

to high-stung.

nice one champ

and I used the scarce evidence available to us to make sense out of what we know. And no, I hate pay2win games, I wish this were just buy the box or sub. All free to play degenerate into pay2win. I suggested being able to pay for more nuanced weapon types

And if bandwidth cost is high, that's a variable cost. A large amount of non-paying players are a retarded idea if that's the case.

Hit the "preview post" button before you submit, and practice critical thinking. Try to examine things and then use your head to imagine if two parts of the same thought complement each other or contradict each other. you just had two parts that contradicted each other.

Mongo · 2012-07-03, 06:04 AM

The problem here is you cant have planetside's game design working with the esport concept, one will detract from the other.

If you have instances and separate events, you massively detract from the overall game, loosing players from the war effort as well as organised outfits leading at the front.

If you have everything open and anyone involved you detract from the elitism and 'esport' competitiveness and basically it devolves into a shit storm of accusations of cheating and unfair number advantages.

No matter how much you want this you cant fit a round peg in a square hole.

The Degenatron · 2012-07-03, 07:11 AM

Originally Posted by super pretendo

and I used the scarce evidence available to us to make sense out of what we know. And no, I hate pay2win games, I wish this were just buy the box or sub. All free to play degenerate into pay2win. I suggested being able to pay for more nuanced weapon types

And if bandwidth cost is high, that's a variable cost. A large amount of non-paying players are a retarded idea if that's the case.

Hit the "preview post" button before you submit, and practice critical thinking. Try to examine things and then use your head to imagine if two parts of the same thought complement each other or contradict each other. you just had two parts that contradicted each other.

"All free to play degenerate into pay2win." - Blanket statement like that have the hghest probability of being wrong.

"pay for more nuanced weapon types" = Pay2Win. Again, you have a lot of nerve lecturing me on contradicting one's self.

Bandwidth is NOT a variable cost. You must pay for the line whether it's packed full of players or not. This isn't your wireless data plan we're talking about here - it's business class OC3 or OC12. SOE is going to purchase a set amount every month. While they may add or subtract lines over a long period, it's not as variable as you make it sound.

Originally Posted by Mongo

The problem here is you cant have planetside's game design working with the esport concept, one will detract from the other.

If you have instances and separate events, you massively detract from the overall game, loosing players from the war effort as well as organised outfits leading at the front.

If you have everything open and anyone involved you detract from the elitism and 'esport' competitiveness and basically it devolves into a shit storm of accusations of cheating and unfair number advantages.

No matter how much you want this you cant fit a round peg in a square hole.

You can't have Planetside work with the classic esport concept. I'm suggesting the concept of esport be broadened a bit.

Like I've already said, if 600 players - pulled from all three empires and all three continents "breaks the bank" of frontline man-power, then Planetside has way bigger problems than promoting esports.

I agree you can't have it "out in the open" because there are just too many variables.

My idea works because it rounds off the corners of the square peg and widens the round hole. It works out like this: You end up having these large arenas open up every hour and a half and for 80% of the time they are filled with "scrubs". But during prime-time on certain days you'll have these massive Outfits square off against one another in epic battles that really could become a "Spectator Event". It's less "every day Baseball" and more "Monday Night Football".

Not only that, but the lore works out well, it has a tangible effect on the whole world, and it also gives player the "decisive victory" many have said that Planetside needs.

BillyBob · 2012-07-03, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by The Degenatron

It works out like this: You end up having these large arenas open up every hour and a half and for 80% of the time they are filled with "scrubs". But during prime-time on certain days you'll have these massive Outfits square off against one another in epic battles that really could become a "Spectator Event". It's less "every day Baseball" and more "Monday Night Football".

Unless I've misunderstood you completely (in which case feel free to correct me), your suggestion still involves this taking place amongst "regular" players who are not participating in the e-sport part of the game?

If that is the case, then thanks...but no thanks.

Whatever solution you (or SOE) comes up with, it should IMO not interfere with the core game mechanics in any way whatsoever, be it actively or passively.

To have any regular open in-game areas being "reserved" or dedictaed in this manner, even if only for certain limited times, is not ok.

E-sports should be something to participate in for fun at your own free will, not something to get thrown into because the combatants around you suddenly decide it's time for them to play their little "game within the game".

Again, I might have misinterpreted you, but for clarity's sake let me repeat what I've said before: Keep all e-sports out of and completely separated from the regular gameplay, no exceptions.

We who don't want to participate should not have to see any e-sports players, let alone notice any signs or effects whatsoever of any e-sport taking place.

We are in it for the pure and simple tactical/strategic COMBAT aspects of the game, and don't want anything else messing with that as its core motivation and objective of the game.

That means no scoring "points" for the sake of scoring points or winning "matches" separated from the ongoing battle targeted against other specific players and/or teams.

We just want to kill, get killed, gain resources and control over territory and be done with it.

By all means, have SOE put in all the e-sports you want, knock yourselves out and have fun...but whatever you do keep it the hell away from the rest of us under ALL circumstances and at ALL times!

/BB

The Degenatron · 2012-07-03, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by BillyBob

Unless I've misunderstood you completely (in which case feel free to correct me), your suggestion still involves this taking place amongst "regular" players who are not participating in the e-sport part of the game?

If that is the case, then thanks...but no thanks.

Whatever solution you (or SOE) comes up with, it should IMO not interfere with the core game mechanics in any way whatsoever, be it actively or passively.

To have any regular open in-game areas being "reserved" or dedictaed in this manner, even if only for certain limited times, is not ok.

E-sports should be something to participate in for fun at your own free will, not something to get thrown into because the combatants around you suddenly decide it's time for them to play their little "game within the game".

Again, I might have misinterpreted you, but for clarity's sake let me repeat what I've said before: Keep all e-sports out of and completely separated from the regular gameplay, no exceptions.

We who don't want to participate should not have to see any e-sports players, let alone notice any signs or effects whatsoever of any e-sport taking place.

We are in it for the pure and simple tactical/strategic COMBAT aspects of the game, and don't want anything else messing with that as its core motivation and objective of the game.

That means no scoring "points" for the sake of scoring points or winning "matches" separated from the ongoing battle targeted against other specific players and/or teams.

We just want to kill, get killed, gain resources and control over territory and be done with it.

By all means, have SOE put in all the e-sports you want, knock yourselves out and have fun...but whatever you do keep it the hell away from the rest of us under ALL circumstances and at ALL times!

/BB

Absolutely. I get it and I'm with you on this.

The ONLY thing a player who didn't care about these "Drop Zone" Matches would ever see is something akin to a HART shuttle departing from their Foothold base. An alarm goes off, people go to the shuttle, the shuttle leaves, and for a player like you out in the field, you never even know.

You'd also get a bump of bonus resources pumped into you bank if your Empire's team won. It'd be just one resource type. Or you'd get a decrease in your drop-pod timer.

What I meant by the Drop Zones being filled with "scrubs" is that they'd be volunteers. You're going to have a percentage of the general population who are not in Outfits but want to participate. The Drop Zones would always be cycling so most times the "unaffiliated volunteers" would be filling out the rosters of those matches. But the rosters would also give prefrence to Outfits and if an Outfit shows up with 200 players, then they get seated first. If one Outfit can't fill the entire roster, then roster would then be filled out with additional Outfits, and then "scrubs".

But at no time would anyone ever be forced to interact with this system if they didn't want to.

Edit: To further clarify - These "arenas" would be off continent, running on their own server. Players that participate would be picked up and dropped of at the Foothold. Nothing would happen "On Continent".

An example would be a massive modern looking "oil dereck" way out in the ocean - completely separated from the continental action.

Also - spectators would have a serparate login. They would not be taking up space on a continent to sit and spectate.

Dagron · 2012-07-03, 01:06 PM

That is instancing, and i really don't see why you thought it was a bad thing for e-sports in your first suggestion. I think this idea is way better than the other one.

As for the matches generating resources, i don't really like it but i guess it's ok. I wouldn't like e-sports to interfere in any way with the rest of the game, but since it wouldn't limit the resource gain just to those playing, i guess that would be acceptable as it wouldn't create a wealthy elite group that could dominate the combat in the regular fights.

The Degenatron · 2012-07-03, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by Dagron

That is instancing, and i really don't see why you thought it was a bad thing for e-sports in your first suggestion. I think this idea is way better than the other one.

As for the matches generating resources, i don't really like it but i guess it's ok. I wouldn't like e-sports to interfere in any way with the rest of the game, but since it wouldn't limit the resource gain just to those playing, i guess that would be acceptable as it wouldn't create a wealthy elite group that could dominate the combat in the regular fights.

Yea, I see where you got that. What I meant was "the issue that must be dealt with is Instancing". Not that this was an alternative to instancing but that this was a way the handling instancing in a believable way that still utilized the power of Forgelight.

E-sports require a level of instancing, and I knew that. And you can't "instance" in the middle of the open world.

As for the second part, the idea IS to have the Drop Zone Matches provide a "Facility Benefit" to the entire Empire. I get what you're saying about the "wealthy elite", and that why I limited it to 1 resource type per match. The example I'm thinking of was the resource denial example Higby talked about in some of the early interviews. Facility B generated Auraxium and so that facility is really important to the Vanu to capture each time it comes around because it can help the entire empire. The idea is to link the Drop Zone matches with the entire game in some way and make them a part of the meta-game, but to not make it over-powered. I'm not throwing out specific bonus numbers because they'd have to be balanced.

Arovien · 2012-07-03, 03:51 PM

Pretty sure most can agree the lesser of two evils is the instance-based model.

Regardless of opinion. E-sports will eventually happen in PlanetSide 2. Be ready or keep raging. Some good discussion was had here on this thread tho. At least we established that the majority of the PSU community does not want what the OP was suggesting.

super pretendo · 2012-07-03, 04:21 PM

So, bandwidth is variable in the long run the. And no, e-sports are not inevitable. Not sure where people get this shit. The entire existence of planetside 2 is based on SOE having a monopoly on this one particular niche. call of dubstep: dudebro420 isn't as profitable if the rest of the industry is trying to get a piece

Dagron · 2012-07-03, 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by super pretendo

And no, e-sports are not inevitable. Not sure where people get this shit.

From Higby, who said he's an e-sports fan and that they definitely want to do something about it. It might not be inevitable, but it sure seems the odds are in favor of it.

The Degenatron · 2012-07-05, 06:38 PM

I just had an epiphany for my idea. I'm going to write this all up as it's own topic since I totally hijacked NewSith's topic (sorry NewSith); so the new topic is going to be largely a repost of what I've already written, but I want to throw this wrench into the works before I do:

No respawn.

200 players per team. Winner take all. No respawn.

The reason I thought of this was because I worried that matches would drag on for too long. On a six hour cycle, it's concievable that two teams could stalemate the facility until the clock rolled over.

Also, this works best if matches don't last more than 1 1/2 hours so that one single server can host all of the matches on a rotating basis which would minimize overhead.

So, no respawning...unless you cap the middle.

Each base would have a "Key Objective" - The capture point located in the middle of the base. Capturing that point turns on the power flow from that teams transport ship to the bases batteries, and allows for that teams players to respawn in the center.

Now the other two factions are in REAL trouble - which is the whole point. This expedites the "clean up phase" and forces all teams to the middle. Retaking the Key Objective is possible with an organized counter attack, but not very likely - doing so would be the stuff of legends.

Players that die can stay and spectate with the possibilty of gaining the respawn ability, or they can drop out and respawn back at their originating Foothold base.

Also, revives would be allowed (of course, why not - but it bears saying so that people understand).

This mechanic makes matchs shorter, more high stakes, and extremely tactical.

It's like Counter-Strike on steroids.

Ninjacalypse · 2012-07-13, 01:49 AM

If the E-sports are separate from and do not effect the actual Meta-game then I say go for it.