I'm going to miss the old base fights - Page 2

JesNC · 2012-06-07, 03:39 AM

This is something that occured to me while watching the recorded stream, too.

Although the central point seemed quite defensible with a coordinated team, the points are very open from several sides.

Now don't get me wrong, corridor defense/assault in PS1 was very dull gameplay-wise, but I had some very cool A-New-Hope'esque moments dug in in the basement, listening to the fight outside and waiting for the inevitable MAX crash.

It's no game breaker by far, it's just something I (and I suspect I'm not entirely alone on this) will miss for my first few nights of PS2 - along with assault buggies

GhettoPrince · 2012-06-07, 03:55 AM

You're looking at them through nostalgia colored glasses, they were just big rooms full of boxes and once you dropped the gen and started the hack? , 9 times out of 10 you already had the towers so you were just in a very boring 15 minute wait. Those bases were way too small for vehicle combat too, a single orbital strike could kill the whole damn courtyard on most of them.

I will say that I miss bridge fights. I don't know how choke points will work with the new hex map, but those bridge fights were crazy.

Cuross · 2012-06-07, 04:09 AM

I dunno. I really liked how courtyard battles were in PS1, how you would battle your hardest trying to prevent the enemy from rushing the doors. Not to mention, everything seemed so much closer together than the videos we're seeing now. But my beef is, at least with the bases we've seen, that I find the whole capture points mechanic a bit tacky. Guess I just prefer a more tactical reason to take points, like point A lowers host Empire's respawn rate, point B raises host Empire's equipment costs, etc., and you could capture the base by going straight for the CC, but capturing all these other points decrease the amount of time necessary for that main capture.

I still don't know how I feel about mapping out base fights to mimic modern shooters, though. I hope that there are bases out there that would just turn out to be a tactical clusterf*** for attackers, you know, a base that has been built to defend and not be so open like the ones we saw.

Death2All · 2012-06-07, 04:16 AM

The old base designs, while iconic, were awful. That's the plane and simple truth. There was no thought put into the design of them at all. Everything was way to narrow and choked off. Made offense a real bitch in that game. Factor in all the Thumper spam and you had a really frustrating experience.

I'm loving the open design of the bases. It's going to make the fights a lot more enjoyable. Although I noticed that pretty much all of the capture points were all inside of really small choked off rooms. Obviously you can't have a capture point in the middle of nowhere right out in the open, but when you put them in tiny choked off areas like that it just becomes a spamfest.

Also, I'm not too thrilled about capture points being these bland things you just stand at and hold "E" until it flips. I think they've said that there will be different methods to capture points. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

megamold · 2012-06-07, 04:17 AM

i loved the ps1 base fights, even with their bottlenecks ( and there were alot of bottlenecks lets be honest here ) and they will allways have a special place in my gaming heart.
but i dont think that a nostalgic hindsight of the bases would make em work better in ps2.

what ive seen so far really pleases me in terms of base design, its more interesting to look at, more intricate, more chance for tactical play.
what i am mostly missing from the live demo at E3 is the actual fight towards the base ( ie more medium-long ranged combat ) and even that looked very interesting from looking at the surrounding area.
didnt Tray say a while ago there would also be more walled in bases, more similar to the ps1 style bases?
even tough i loved the ps1 bases i do think this will be a change for the better in general.

ringring · 2012-06-07, 04:18 AM

Originally Posted by GhettoPrince

You're looking at them through nostalgia colored glasses, they were just big rooms full of boxes and once you dropped the gen and started the hack? , 9 times out of 10 you already had the towers so you were just in a very boring 15 minute wait. Those bases were way too small for vehicle combat too, a single orbital strike could kill the whole damn courtyard on most of them.

I will say that I miss bridge fights. I don't know how choke points will work with the new hex map, but those bridge fights were crazy.

The hack time could also be the most awesome time too.

Unless you have never fought for a resecure and got it back with seconds to spare or fought to the last bullet to defend your hack. Thinking back, that happens lost of time and perhaps we've given that up. Beta will tell I suppose.

Bridge fights, I will not miss those ... push across .. someone ahead of you in an ams chickens out and deploys everything comes to a suddering halt and everyone is killed. So you go back to spamming across to the other side at stuff you can hardly see. Stale bridge fights were by far the worst thing in ps1

Zenben · 2012-06-07, 04:22 AM

Originally Posted by ringring

The hack time could also be the most awesome time too.

Unless you have never fought for a resecure and got it back with seconds to spare or fought to the last bullet to defend your hack. Thinking back, that happens lost of time and perhaps we've given that up. Beta will tell I suppose.

Bridge fights, I will not miss those ... push across .. someone ahead of you in an ams chickens out and deploys everything comes to a suddering halt and everyone is killed. So you go back to spamming across to the other side at stuff you can hardly see. Stale bridge fights were by far the worst thing in ps1

Disagree. Bridge fights were one of my favorite aspects of PS1. Especially the Ceryshen bridge. Man I loved ramming tanks over the side with my Reaver.

Kalbuth · 2012-06-07, 04:39 AM

I watched yesterday a PS1 vid on youtube on a base attack.
All I can say is thank you SOE for getting us rid of these insanely stupidely boring bottleneck spamfests. I'm not going to miss old bases at all.

About bridge battle, they are part of my fondest memories back in the days, but that's for a very specific reason : I was Vanu at that time, Magrider driver, and a Magrider hovering on water pummeling the ennemy shore while zig-zagging to evade ennemy fire, able to take out average reaver-spammers because we had no splash dammage on water at that time, doing fast incursion on ennemy territory, zipping around and squishing infantry.... well... that made bridge fights good!

It was Ze Best Combat scenario for Magriders, ennemy without cover, ability to control the range of the fight, no splash damage on you. How I hated Thunderers when they appeared!

I SandRock · 2012-06-07, 04:50 AM

I agree, said this to a friend only yesterday. They can make in-door areas without having to resort to the narrow PS1 corridors. But at least large indoor areas would've been awesome, and keep things varied. It was a large part of what made PS, PS. The big outdoor fights with vehicles etc. and then getting out and going in-doors, where the nature of the fight changed completely. Now it just seems more like generic FPS (BF3, CoD etc.) shooter + vehicles + more players.
No more spec op drops to take down a gen, to hold a CC, to retake a base, no more sneaking into the vehicle bay, the backdoor, etc. *sniff*

megamold · 2012-06-07, 04:55 AM

Originally Posted by I SandRock

No more spec op drops to take down a gen, to hold a CC, to retake a base, no more sneaking into the vehicle bay, the backdoor, etc. *sniff*

where do you get that from? just because the E3 players dont know what they are doing doesnt mean there cant be any spec-ops on towers , barracks, forwards spawn, vehicle bays,.... when the game gets into the hand of experienced players.
if anything i think they gave us more targets to take into consideration when doing spec-ops or general squad tactics.
the E3 gameplay is just a bad example of the tactical gameplay that ps2 is built around, and they did this on purpose to pull more people into the booths.

the backdoor in ps1 never made much sense to me really, yes lets build a base right here and wall it as much as possible and lets put the CC underground so its hard to reach. oh! lets also put a single door on the outside somewhere thats leads the enemy straight to our cc !

DviddLeff · 2012-06-07, 05:19 AM

I hated indoor fights in PS, the only good parts were in the lobbies of the buildings or the larger rooms in basements where some tactical play may be worthwhile. Camping doorways and stairwells was shit.

Figment · 2012-06-07, 05:28 AM

Considering they are going to make different interiors in different bases, it'd be nice if they include one base based on the old layouts per continent, just improvements in door/tunnel size, etc. Same goes for courtyards with more enclosed walls.

But yeah, it's nice that they go for variety in base design. I just hope they make some bases with underground sections and defense choke points (maybe more entrances and slightly harder to defend choke points and all), just so a base fight can really be a siege rather than a slugfest/battle royale.

Cosmical · 2012-06-07, 05:29 AM

I do agree they look alot different, and as far as i can tell sniper lines of sight and effectiveness seems pretty limited. But we will see.

I was kindof hoping that this new point capture system they have would be similar to the lattice system for taking capital bases.

i.e. take all the surrounding points, then push into the main base for the final fight. Where defenders could hunker down, and attackers have multiple avenues of attack. Seems like its just a large area cluster fuck, which is fun for other reasons, and obviously spreads the combat like the devs want.

But misses out on that concentrated large scale push, last man standing CC hold. But modern shooters cant justify small doorways, with lots of troops trying to force through, with friendly fire and other such issues. It would make it a massacre in an unfun slaughterhouse kindof way.

DOUBLEXBAUGH · 2012-06-07, 05:34 AM

Originally Posted by Bags

I don't understand how a base made entirely out of bottlenecks is appealing. Or do you guys like to spam grenades/lasher/maelstrom~?

The majority of the people here were the ones spamming plasma around corners waiting on their MAX timers. Reading a lot of the stuff posted on this site, its as if I played a completely different PS from everyone else. I delete more posts than I actually post, cause I find its just not worth it most of the time.

ringring · 2012-06-07, 05:42 AM

Originally Posted by DOUBLEXBAUGH

The majority of the people here were the ones spamming plasma around corners waiting on their MAX timers. Reading a lot of the stuff posted on this site, its as if I played a completely different PS from everyone else. I delete more posts than I actually post, cause I find its just not worth it most of the time.

Not me, I hardly ever used a max and thumper even less.

But I kinda liked the rhythm of a base fight and even an interfarm on the attacking side.

I think the thing I'll probably miss most (assuming there is not equivalent) is the epic hack defences or resecures. But, for all that I'm sure ps2 will replace that with something equivalent I just don't know what right now.

(Funny tho it was some of the fighting shown reminded my in a way of some of the fight there used to be in caves, if not quite as tactical.)