Big Ideas Beta 1.0 - Page 2

Peacemaker · 2004-03-04, 02:22 PM

which air thing?

BTW I need what you guys think of this! Please tell me your ideas on this.

Duffman · 2004-03-06, 12:33 AM

teh thing that flys really fast. Come on you cant land and you cant stop. If you dont want it to kill ground units dont let it shoot unless locked on aircraft. Just dont let it slow down past 60 kph.

i dont know just doesnt sound liike it would have enough uses

SlyMarbo · 2004-03-06, 01:04 AM

ok lets you and me talk your interceptor base is similar to my Airbase but what i did was allow for stall speeds. Sned me Private message if you'd like to co-op on ideas for a massive post using sugestions from players. If so i'll send you my E-mail to make life easier

Peacemaker · 2004-03-06, 07:22 AM

Duff,

The interceptor is not designed to engage ground targets, but as all things in planetside, you can use equipment for things its supposed to be used for. Most of the time the equipment sucks for doing so. In this case we have an aircraft that does not stop, its not for dog fighting enemy aircraft, its turns in the radius of a liberator at 175kph (which btw is its max non AB speed) It can also slow down to the 100kph range and no lower. The afterburners are for escapes from AA maxs if your going slow (accel is very very low), getting to a target quickly, or escaping from a mosquito or reaver that got lucky. The afterburners push this thing to the 300 range (Is the mossy 200 or 300 on AB? If its 200 then the AB on this will go to 250, I want it to outrun a mossy) Anyways the only thing to dog fight in this thing would be an enemy interceptor.

As for the interceptor bases it seems that Bio labs are set up like this. 1 on each end of a continent near a warpgate (from south and north warpgates). And one in the middle. Bio labs are by far the least cared about facility, making the north and south ones Inteceptor bases makes the center bio lab a highly contested target that is worth fighting over. (We will care if you drop a bio labs gens when it isnt under attack now) Not saying that we dont give to shits about them but no one has a particular intrest in keeping them because there are like 3 or 4 on each continent. Making two of them Inteceptor bases would make for better battles at bio labs and better battles at the new base.

Duffman · 2004-03-07, 02:10 PM

wait whats the point of it then if it doesnt dogfight. Isnt its point to shoot enemy aircarft down?

Peacemaker · 2004-03-07, 04:55 PM

Dogfighting does not equal shooting down enemy aircraft. Interceptors dont dog fight. They use quick passes on targets with guns or missles. They dont turn and out manuver an opponent (which is dog fighting). The point of it is that its an Anti Liberator/ Lodestar/ Galaxy weapon. Its not ment to turn around a mossy and shoot it down with its guns. If it gets lucky and spots an enemy mossy that isnt moving it can hit it. (same thing with a reaver) but it does all of this with its missles. The 25mm is more for hitting larger targets or OTHER interceptors.

Lithpope · 2004-03-07, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by Peacemaker

The halberd cant target aircraft well.

Odds are it will not target ground vehicles well either because the Striker lock bug is a LOT worse on ground vehicles than aircraft and odds are it will suffer from the same bug.

Peacemaker · 2004-03-07, 08:08 PM

Its a possibility.

LimpBIT · 2004-03-07, 10:19 PM

I love all of those. Especially the NC one........

xx7xx · 2004-03-07, 10:25 PM

Ok, there is a TON of stuff here, so the only way I can make sense out of it all is to address it per item. Here goes:

Stiletto- Standard Assult, 2 firing modes (Taser and Stun), 100 cell Clip, Pistol sized
Stun- All stanima drained, uses 75 cells which recharge in 30 seconds,
point blank only
Taser- Max Range 1meter, takes 100 cells at max and 50 at point blank.
Lashes out and locks on within target bubble, multipule targets can be in
arc and be hit (if two targets at 1 meter and both are in the target bubble
both will die when all 100 cells gone) Can lash 3 at maximum. For point blank
it takes 1.5 seconds to kill, at max it takes 2.

Why would you want a less than lethal weapon in PS? Answer: you wouldn't. The reason being is that it is much more productive to be using a lethal weapon with your precious seconds in combat, than using something non lethal. Furthermore, the item doesn't solve a problem, or answer a question, so it doesn't have anything to justify it's existance. As an example of something similar, look at the Radiator. Neat concept, and heck, it's even lethal, but it is very rarely used, due to the limited situations in which it would be effective.

Halberd- AT AV weapon. Decimator sized. 80 cells per charge, 10 cells per shot
Two firing modes, Tag and bolt.
Tag- will tag a vehicle and eneable the bolt mode to home in on the tag.
Lasts 15 seconds and can be removed by a friendly jammer.
Bolt- can be fired with out being locked onto a target and then the cursor can
be placed over the target instantly locking it causing the bolt to start homeing
allowing it to go around objects such as trees or a wall. Turns at a phnx rate of
turn and is slightly faster than the phnx. Does between a striker and phnx damage.
The target bubble enables you to see the tag through objects. (X ray style)

Too gimmicky for one. Ease of use and simplicity are good design aspects. When you start making all sorts of special conditions and rules for something, that's a sure-fire sign that it's a bad idea (force domes for example). Anyway, this steps all over the existing capabilities of existing weapons. If the real reason you would want this weapon is that the existing ones don't work, fix the existing weapons instead.

Decimator- Changes up the origonal decimator for a one shot pertube unit. Tube takes up
1/3rd the inventory space as present decimator (1x9). The tubes will not auto select
so you have to change up the tubes in your inventory screen. This gives the decimator
a lower TTK on MAX units. (an infantry with one tube equiped will have to switch another
tube in) This also allows a unit to carry more things in their inventory such as AV ammo
along with 2 decis. Or a standard armor to carry 3 ammo boxes, 1 deci and 3 medpacks or
8 nades.

This has good intent, but goes down the wrong path entirely. The prime problem you're trying to solve is the easy TTK on MAX units, am I right? To solve this and have good gameplay for the rest of the units involved, the Decimator should be designed like this:

1 round per Decimator. Same size as existing. 625 Damage per round, for direct hit only. 2.5m radius splash damage for 200 points. 10m minimum arming range (impact at less than 10m results in 50 impact damage, zero splash, no detonation). User must be still/crouched for accurate COF. Standing/moving will result in COF approximately the size of Jackhammer secondary fire. In other words, as big as your whole screen.

SL Camera- Comes with being a squad leader. A helmet mounted camera lets a commander in an inquisitor
command aircraft see through the SL's eyes.

Why introduce a whole aircraft to use this? Just use the CUD to bring up a display screen showing everyone in your squad/platoon, in 2-3 second resolution, so bandwidth wouldn't be an issue.

Empire MA Over and Under-
For 1 cert point you can add a grenadelauncher/ shotgun tube on the bottom of Empire Rifles.
Unlike the punisher you can only have one type of tube equiped. Shotgun, Rocklet, Frag,
Jammer, or plasma. Getting the one cert point opens up a new inventory slot that can only
fit the new weapon addon.

How about we just skip the 1 cert point thing and just add Empire MA+ single shot GL (just like that of the Punisher, with multi-purpose capability) to SA. This is much more simple, and effective, and it adds value to SA.

Additionally, what about adding MA+ 4 round Sweeper to HA? would give you another neat option to fight with, and wouldn't negate the use of MA, HA, or the sweeper. Simple and elegant solution. And it adds value to HA.

Valkyrie Interceptor -
High speed anti aircraft. Low manuverability, cannot slow down or land once launched
Carrys 4 AA missles witch are relativly easy to dodge/break lock in Mossys and Reavers.
Liberator is hard to break lock. Galaxy Class and Lodestar = Near Impossible lock break.
Also carrys a single 25mm nose gun with 150 rounds in the gun and 300 reserve shots.
Speed = 250 Kph Top AB speed= 350kph. A well timed mossy or reaver burn can let
you shoot it down. Other than head on passes Max missles cant keep up. VERY LOW ARMOR.
2 Max missles will kill it if they can hit it. Cannot bail from aircraft unless you
loose control. Can only be landed, rearmed, and launched from Interceptor bases.
(Note you cannot slow down, you are locked at a constant 250kph)
You may enter a new continent from anywhere on the globe using the interceptor, it
has a new option in the esc menu that enables you to fly to linked continents and arrive at
a friendly linked warp gate.

Poor design for multiple reasons. For starters, there are issues with objects traveling over certian speeds and lag/warping. This is why the aircraft are limited such as they are currently. Secondly, the design is just too inflexible. A better idea would be to have 2 flight modes- VTOL and regular, that could be transitioned by using the 'vehicle special ability' key. This would work similar to MAX's autorun feature. regardless, it's capabilities are too narrow, and could just as easily be incorporated into the existing aircraft. Not a good enough cost/benefit ratio to be worth adding to the game.

Galaxy Destroyer Gunship-
This massive aircraft is the same as the galaxy. Its left side is dominated by a row of weapon systems.
The first are the 4 20mm recoiless cannons. They are the same cannons on the deliverer transport and have
a pivot of 80 degrees in any direction on the left side of the craft. Then comes a dual barreled 75mm cannon
station which has a 60 degree field of fire. The last weapon system is the 105mm howitzer near the tail of
the ship. It has a 40 degree field of fire and is considerbly less accurate than tanks main gun and packs slightly
more punch than a 100mm. The rate of fire is about the same as a 100mm. It also has an arcing shot that is similar
to the vangaurds main gun. It has 20% more armor than a galaxy. It can only be purchased at a dropship center.

While I think that an AC-130 style of aircraft would be really fun to play with, I have to question how effective it would be in the game, and what kind of opportunity you'd have to employ such a thing, given the current state of the game's AA capabilities and the general poorly designed game flow in PlanetSide. Additionally, you don't add enough detail to this idea, as you say nothing about how the guns will be controlled, how much ammunition is available per gun, etc. etc. etc. Personally, if such a thing were to be included in the game, I'd have the pilot have a secondary view mode, similar to how the Liberator pilot can look below, only this view mode would be down and to the left side, with a targeting reticle, so that the pilot could keep the aircraft in an accurate orbit around a desired target. I'd have the guns controlled by a single gunner, and the guns would be controlled in sets: the 4 20mm (which I'd change to 5 barrel rotary guns, not the Deliverers 20mm "recoilless" guns. I hate that the Devs see fit to call something a recoilless gun when it clearly isn't and they so grossly miss use the term), the 2 75mm (which I'd change to 40mm, since that is more appropriate and realistic, since 75mm would be too close to 105mm in capability), and finally the 105mm. The time of flight for all projectiles would be dramatically reduced, so as to actually be effective in the required roles, and the trajectories would also be corrected, so that the 105mm's trajectory didn't resemble that of a slow pitch softball on it's way to home plate.

<continued next post, I hit the 10K char limit>

xx7xx · 2004-03-07, 10:26 PM

Inquisitor Command and EW Aircraft-
The Inquisitor command and Electronic warfare aircraft is a mobile command point. It has 3 seats, a pilot, the command
chair and a 25mm tail gunner. It sports a long fusalage and a radar sticking out of the tail. The command chair can be
used by CR3 and up commanders. When in the chair the timers for all command abilities are cut in half, the Orbital strike
being an exception. The Map can also be zoomed in when using command abilities and the range of all of them doubles. The
commander can then set up to 8 waypoints, see through SL's helmet cameras, and see the numbers of friendlies on diffrent
area's of the contient. The pilot is unarmed except for the ECM system. The ECM system disables wall turrets, slows down the
rate of fire on all ground vehicles in its range by 1/4th, blocks Interlink Benefits, and doubles the lock on time for any
lock on weapon it also disables the sensor on Burster maxs and skyguards so only direct hits work. Spitfires are disabled as
are mines. The effects last as long as the NTU capasitor in the aircraft is full. Normaly it fills over time (about 5 minutes)
if there is a commander in the command seat. Otherwise you must fuel the NTU capasitor at a warpgate. The maximum effect time is
45 seconds. The inquisitor jams the sensors of all of this equipment by flooding the SOI with NTU's confusing the sensors. It
can only be purchased at a dropship center.

While I'm all for EW aircraft, both RADAR and ECM, the above idea is too complicated, has too many little rules, and is generally too gimmicky. A large portion of the ideas could be incorporated into existing aircraft (mosquito) or need to be scrapped, or could be better put to use in some sort of mobile command station (think AMS crossed with an un-armed Sunderer)

"Evil" Hammer Transport Ship- (Pegasus is an alternate name we had
The Hammer Transport is a half squad transport designed to insert troops by not hotdroping from maxmium altitude. They are biult to fly
into a hot zone demount 5 infantry and fly away providing some cover fire. It is maned by a pilot and two of the passengers use doormounted
12mm rotary machineguns. The pilot also has a 30mm (dual reaver 20s maybe) nose mounted cannon. It carries 3 passengers and 2 gunners in an
open cargo area. (This area may not be possible due to engine limits) The passengers can be injured inside this area but all damage is
reduced by 2/3rds except for bolt driver bolts. All damage not taken by infantry in the hold is transfered to the aircraft. The passengers
can also engage with personal weapons from inside. The mounted 12mms have a 45 degree field of fire and have a CoF like a
lightning. It can only be purchased with a techplant. -Dedicated to hamma

I've already thought of this vehicle, and have even made a model for it. It is a Reaver model with enlarged mid-section to allow 4 passengers (2 gunners and 2 passengers) in addition to the single pilot. The pilot has access to a 5 barrel 25mm rotary cannon mounted on the centerline, and the gunners each have 12mm miniguns, one on each side. Other than that it flies/handles just like a Reaver. Simple, direct, and to the point. Additionally, if it's feasable, then the passengers could be shot while sitting in the aircraft.

Empire Specific IFVs-
The empire specific infantry fighting vehicles are designed to transport 3 passengers a gunner and a driver while still being able to engage
enemy armor. They are slower than Assult Buggies and less manuverable but faster than tanks. They can be spawned at any base.

Terran- Scorpion IFV
The scorpion is armed with a rapid fire 25mm cannon with explosive warheads and a quad pack Heavy Striker anti armor missle. The Heavy Striker
can lock onto armor but not aircraft or MAXs and packs 1/3rd more power and has a greater range. It is the heaviest armored of the three and thus
the slowest and has the weakest firepower.

NC- Instigator IFV
The Instigator is armed with the same 35mm cannon on the Liberator but it like the scorpions 25mm has a small explosive tip. It is also armed with
a Heavy Pheonix Rocket. This larger Pheonix flys 50% faster, is unguided, and packs 1/4th more punch than its smaller brother the pheonix. It comes
in a 3 rocket clip. It has the medium speed, most firepower, slowest ROF, and medium armor.

VS- Jackal
The Jackal is armed with a light PPA. Its slightly less powerfull than the PPA on a magrider. It also carries dual lancers. They have an increased
speed of projectile but delievers the same damage and no pause before the shot. The Jackal hovers like all other Vanu specfic ground craft. It is
the lightest armored most manuverable, medium ROF, and has a medium punch.

None of the above listed vehicles sound like they would be decent at surviving contact with enemy armor, much less actually fighting with them. Basically, these designs would be intruding upon the roles of Assault Buggies, Sunderers and Deliverers. Frankly, if we combined the best aspects of all three, then we wouldn't really need any of them. We'd just be left with one competent vehicle per empire. Right now no one uses the Sunderer. The Empire buggies are only marginally effective, and none are a good match for enemy armor. The Deliverer is the most versatile and therefore the most usable of the bunch.

One interesting note is that you have chosen the "Heavy Phoenix" to be unguided. This is a particularly poor design descision. If you change the phoneix as you have mentioned, then what you have is in fact, a Decimator, which we all know, is next to useless for hitting fast moving armored targets at extended ranges. What would be a better choice is to have the Heavy Phoenix be exactly that- double the damage, increase the range to 350m, and have it be operator guided. 1 shot per clip, and the vehicle can not move, or the guidance link will be broken. Anyway, I do agree that the vehicle selection and capabilities in PlanetSide needs a huge amount of work, but the ideas that you have put forth so far wouldn't have the proper tools for the roles that they need to fill. I suggest that you look at real vehicles and their capacities and capabilities, and then look at the prototype and near future ideas and concepts for land warfare, and then go from there. That would provide you with a better starting point.

Empire Specific Main Battle Tanks-
The MBTs for the empires will be larger than the origonal tanks. The Heavy tanks can only be purchased at the Sanctuary on the air terminals.

What would this add to gameplay? Not much.

Interceptor Base-
Very small base (Amp station sized) It has 3 launch tubes on one end and 3 recovery strips at the other.
Generator is located at the top of the facility and the CC is located at the bottom. It also has two air
terminals that can spawn reavers and mossys with or without a tech plant. And Repair pads that dont need
a dropship center to opperate. 2 on small continents (solsar) 3 on a big one (Ish, Cyssor).
I feel they should replace an Amp station or Bio lab seeing as there are alot of them. A map in the top
room which holds the 2 Air terms, and the gen next to it show enemy air contacts on the entire continent.
The map is color coordinated in regions of the cont to show the general number of aircraft. (This room looks
like the Tech plant upstairs room except the map does something) This base has no ground terminals and no benifits.
Only 3 aircraft may be rearming at anyone time. A landing requires you to approach the landing pads from the correct
direction and hit G. You then land are taken underground repaired and rearmed and launched. If someone spawns an interceptor
in front of you while landed you have to wait in a line.

Interceptors are a bad idea, hence, so is the base. In fact, requiring that an entirely new base be created to field one niche use unit is just absurd.

<continued>

xx7xx · 2004-03-07, 10:27 PM

For future design ideas, consider these principles: Clearly define the required capability. Ensure that no other equipment (meaning anything in the game, weapons, vehicles, support items etc.) does not already fill this role, or overlap the design requirements by more than 10-20%. Keep it simple. If you have to add all sorts of little rules and special modifiers to make it work, it's not going to be good in the game. (force domes anyone?) Look at real world counterparts before designing your stuff. Not just the latest stuff, but the history of the equipment, and how it developed. If you don't study history, you are doomed to be a noob and repeat it. Consider everything from a players aspect: is there something they could do that they would rather be doing than using your item? Simply put: is this the best tool for the job? When people don't ask this, then stupid descisions get made and then stupid gameplay developes (mowing, Buster spam, Lancer sniping, etc.). The reason these things existed is because the intended tool for the task, whatever it was, was *worse* at it's intended job than the other activity, so the players resorted to using the most effective method possible. Don't blame the players, blame the designers.

One more thing. Never *ever* add arbitrary rules to a game to 'balance' it. if you have to do so, it's because you didn't design the game right in the first place. AV/AI damage is a prime example of this. Who ever heard of an anti-tank missile not doing as much if not more damage to a person? It's stupid, its absurd, and it doesn't need to be like that. These are the kinds of broken gameplay that ruins a gaming experience because it takes the player out of the immersion of the game. Games need to be consistant. If a huge gun would totally obliterate a player in real life, then it should do so in the game. It's up to the designers to maintain the consistancy, while designing in rules so that the game play is not broken, and is still fun and playable.

Peacemaker · 2004-03-08, 03:30 PM

Halberd is a much needed weapon. We dont have an AT AV weapon. Plus its not hard to use at all. Point, click to fire the dart. The dart hits and acts as a beacon. The advantage it has over other things is that once its on the target you can fire the missle in one direction and it will go in another entirly.

The Stilleto is a cloakers weapon. The point of a non leathal mode is so you can basicly piss someone the hell off, or if you want stun them and knife them.

The decimator change is nearly exactly what we need. It takes time for the infantry to change up the weapons meaning they cant kill a max in 3 seconds, also the present deci is nearly perfect (splash damage reduction being the exception).

The over and under thing. WE NEED a 1 cert point deal. Theres no argument about it. Having one cert point left open is so damn annoying it insane.

The squad leader cam could be hooked to a CUD.

The Gunship fits the role that it needs. Like the camera idea tho. Its use would be for bombarding an infantry heavy base, tower, or AMS. Staying low would be a warm target for AA. The best idea would be to have it fly at max with someone lazing the target. Having one gunner at command of all of the weapons leaves the thing too easy to coordinate. Having more than one makes it harder to employ its full potential to the battle field. The "recoiless guns" in the game are exactly what they say they are. Watch the firing of the weapons in game. 3 pnuematic rods absorb the recoil for every shot. 75mm are underpowered weapons as is and require direct hits to be effective. The splash is low damaging.

The AirDel as people refer to it has been thought about many times so calling it your own idea isnt really fair. I just got semi specific with it. Making it as manuverable as a reaver is too much. I can dogfight mossys with a reaver and crush them. Making it turn as quick as one and giving it 25mm rotary (best anti air gun in the game) and 2 12mm gunners would kill a fighter or enemy reaver in a couple seconds. It should be an aircraft that flys as fast as a reaver but is a little less manuverable than a lib.

The interceptor is a large aircraft, almost as long as a galaxy and as wide as a lib. I can easily shoot down ABing mossys and reavers which are small targets that go VERY fast (faster than anything else) so the engine has no problem with vehicles just infantry. Plus the AB is just for escaping or getting to a target quickly, not for combat. The interceptors large size makes it easy to put on a map, thus the engine limits arnt a problem. The addition of an interceptor to the game is also a very good idea considering the other things that Id like in the game. It would be supurb at shooting down Libs, Galaxys, Gal Gunships, AirDels, an ECM aircraft, and Lodestars. The rearming method would make it hard to spam this weapon too. The idea of this thing is for defending a continent we would own. Not for destroying enemy fighters. Air Supiriority is a fake thing in planetside. This would make it real. Also making it a VTOL aircraft would make it too easy to spam b/c now it can be reloaded at any air tower. Saying something doesnt fit any role is foolish if you dont know what your talking about. I am a pilot and this is what I know about. PS lacks a good anti air aircraft. The idea of an interceptor (high speed weapon) is just what we need.

The Command Aircraft is just a dream I thought would be cool. We do need an ECM aircraft though. AA in this game is overpowered no matter what side you fight for. An ECM aircraft coupled with a Gunship would be insanly effective.

The IFVs are designed to get a half squad to a position and still beable to be REASONABLY effective against armor. These arnt tank killers. Also about the heavy phnx. I made it that way because its too easy to spam that damn thing. Maybe if it had its manuverability DRASTICLY cut down then it could be guided. Also slow it down. Making it twice as powerful is not a good idea either. The thing is already the hardest hitting. Hitting one max with it would nearly kill it. Maybe 30-40% more punch would be more acceptable. And hitting infantry would be 10 impact damage alone. The dont infring on other roles, they give another option. They are slower than buggies and faster than tanks. Not as armored as tanks but more armored than a buggy. Fact is PS is bland when it comes to empire specific stuff. We just need more of it.

Heavy Tanks would just be fun. Making them slow and ineffective against light armor and infantry (slow rotating turrets) also hard to get in a base b/c of tank traps would even them out.

The point of the game is to be fun. Not to be realistic or follow real life. Things like the IFV dont NEED to be the best at doing what their role is. They can be substitutes for things like the del. The harasser is a pile of shit compaired to the other Buggies but people use it to GASP HAVE FUN!!!! If the game was reduced to the most effective vehicles and weapons what we would have would be 2 teams. All would have JH's Cyclers, Dels, Enforcers, Skyguards, Starfire AA max, Quasar AA max, Pounder AV max, Deci, phnx, Vanguards, and reavers. Now how much fun is that? Its not fun at all. Lighten up a little and stop being so hyper criticle. You made maybe one positive comment about all of my ideas and it generaly set me in a defenive mode.