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Old 2004-02-11, 11:20 AM   [Ignore Me] #31
GreyFlcn
Sergeant Major
 


Lasher
The Lasher's clip size is being increased to hold 25 rounds, and its reload time is being shortened. *And it will lash at close range

Bolt Driver
Snipers can stay out in the field longer. They won't feel so required to bring an AMS with them when going sniping because they can now carry twice as much ammo as they could previously.
Bolt Driver: Old - 5, New - 10 (per ammo box)

http://planetside.station.sony.com/g...tegory=Testing
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Old 2004-02-11, 11:40 AM   [Ignore Me] #32
Ducimus
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Multiplied across every AV equipped soldier in the field, it could tip the balance permanently in favor of infantry and we would go back to the days where we all had to walk around on foot and vehicles were destroyed the minute they poked their pathetic heads out of the gate.

And this is a bad thing? I for one hate vehicleside. And fondly remember the big massive outdoor battles the game used to have in its first month or two.

Those were the days i tell ya!

On the otherhand, other people hate Infantryside. The hard part for the dev's it seems is finding the happy balance between the two. But right now, the game is too vehicle intensive. Putting Deci to AV will tip the scale the other way, hopefully not in a lopesided way, but enough to where it puts infantry back on the map again with vehicles on equal footing.

Theres somethign inheirantly wrong when every Tom, Dick, and Harry has their ass in a reaver or lighting or whatnot at a base cap. Theres far too many people who are unwilling to unass that piece of equipment their driving.
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Old 2004-02-11, 11:53 AM   [Ignore Me] #33
Krinsath
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The problem in the early days was that the tank armor was too low, so yes...tanks died in droves to infantry and it wasn't really worth getting them. The problem is that they doubled the tanks armor and did nothing to the damage done by AV. This produced a situation where AV was no longer any good against vehicles and you had to gather ten people and an AMS to stand a chance against any tanks...you simply could not do any damage to vehicles with the amount of ammo you could carry.

Now, what the devs have changed in terms of vehicle surviability is exactly zero. The Phoenix, Striker and Lancer all have the *same* Time To Kill on a vehicle that they've always had since the armor increase, so vehicles won't be dropping any faster unless there is a mass exodus from SA to AV (which there could be, but then there's less rocklets and thumpers). The only difference is that now instead of having to run back to a tower or AMS or base every three seconds for more AV ammo, the AV trooper can now stay in the field for about as long as they'll be alive if they're hunting tanks (since the battle tanks are almost one shot kills on infantry).

This also gives the AV weapons a clear advantage over their new cousin the Decimator. Simple reason being that for less space, I can carry more killing capability. The only question is how fast do I want it done. The deci kills a MAX in 2 shots, the Phoenix in 3. The AV weapons are *far* more accurate at range and will probably be used any time there's space between the infantry and the MAXes.

Really, this isn't a direct buff to the AV weapons themselves, as they function exactly as they always have and vehicles will be as they always have. This is a buff to increase the amount of time that they are able to do what they've paid 3 certs (which is quite a bit considering you could have the tanks they're hunting for that much) for.
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Old 2004-02-11, 01:29 PM   [Ignore Me] #34
Seer
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Krinsanth, you missed my point. The limiting factor in av was not the amount of damage I could turn out per second. I tend to stay alive long after I deplete my ammo.

The limiting factor was ammunition. It will take av soldiers longer, but they will have the ammo to do it. When AV users in a given area have the ammo to do it, more of them are firing and firing longer. This will result in a large increase in damage to vehicles.

Ducimus, the balance is incredibly delicate. I think this issue may be very close to all or nothing. You either have powerful vehicles or you have a field full of infantry, because infantry will tear up anything they think they can by sheer force of their ability to respawn, and respawn, and respawn.

And no, I don't see why Planetside shouldn't have vehicles. It's exactly the kind of game that should. Though I do agree with you that people need to know when to leave them.
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Old 2004-02-11, 01:34 PM   [Ignore Me] #35
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Interesting list there, glad the TR MAXs are getting love
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Old 2004-02-11, 01:57 PM   [Ignore Me] #36
Krinsath
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Originally Posted by Seer
Krinsath[sic], you missed my point. The limiting factor in av was not the amount of damage I could turn out per second. I tend to stay alive long after I deplete my ammo.

The limiting factor was ammunition. It will take av soldiers longer, but they will have the ammo to do it. When AV users in a given area have the ammo to do it, more of them are firing and firing longer. This will result in a large increase in damage to vehicles.
1) You presume that the AV troopers are actually managing to hit anything and are targeting vehicles instead of the easier to kill MAXes around. And yes, if you're a vehicle that is operating on your own around enemy AV infantry, you're *supposed* to be killed...AV = Anti-Vehicle, not Audio/Visual. PS is about teamwork...make sure you have proper support before heading out.

2) Who's to say that the AV troopers won't be carrying decimators? They're not nearly as lethal at range as the "AV weapons" (of the current AV cert)

Here is the basic equation of warfare...

Open Field:

Vehicles > Infantry

In cover (forest, cities, etc.):

Infantry > Vehicles

There's a reason armor is not widely employed in cities, because AV troops can down tanks very easily from concealed positions. In PS, the open field will still belong to the tanks. I drive a Lightning and when out in the open I have no problem hammering through infantry, even the decimator and AV equipped ones.

Where there are forests and around bases and near steep ridges, the infantry will dominate because the tanks will not be able to effectively fire back. That's the way things really work too. Armor is a spearhead, but a spear is much larger than just that head. Don't forget to bring along a transport or two full of infantry to clear out those ambush sites...and don't think because you're in a tank that you're invincible.

Really, it's a change that brings PS more in line with how things should work. Vehicles should be scared of Anti-Vehicle troops...just like Infantry are concerned with the Anti-Infantry MAXes and aircraft are concerned with the Anti-Aircraft weapons. Prior to this, why worry? They'd never inflict enough damage to kill you before they had to run to get more ammo.
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Old 2004-02-11, 02:27 PM   [Ignore Me] #37
Seer
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I am presuming nothing about other AV users, but I'm constantly shooting at and killing vehicles in the field. I prefer to engage vehicles over maxes, since when I do engage vehicles I am either forced to, like one is attacking me, or I have prepared for it. With a prepared advantage, like height, trees, or distance, I can do so with near impunity. These things are everywhere in planetside.

Av weapons are among the most potent weapons in planetside. They are either guided or extremely fast and vehicles have very little choice when it comes to receiving their fire. Their one weakness is ammo constraints--tripling their ammo boxes, in my eyes, at least doubles their effectiveness.
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Old 2004-02-11, 02:33 PM   [Ignore Me] #38
Krinsath
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Originally Posted by Seer
Av weapons are among the most potent weapons in planetside. They are either guided or extremely fast and vehicles have very little choice when it comes to receiving their fire. Their one weakness is ammo constraints--tripling their ammo boxes, in my eyes, at least doubles their effectiveness.
Which would bring them right back to where they were before the balance pass when their effectiveness was halved by the double armor.

Actually, you're overestimating the impact it will have a bit. Prepared infantry, in the right positions, will certainly be more effective against vehicles. However, isn't that how things SHOULD work?

Vanguards and Prowlers will probably not have that much more difficulty as their main guns are effective infantry killers. The lighter vehicles will have a tougher time of it, but they're light vehicles...hunt in packs or with support to keep the AVs heads down.

As it stands though, this is all conjecture. You could be right, I could be right, or neither of us could be right. We just have to wait and see.
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Old 2004-02-11, 02:38 PM   [Ignore Me] #39
Seer
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What I'm describing is how things are. I can engage vehicles effectively with a prepared advantage right now.

Anyway, your statement that AV should be brought up to the point it was before the armor increase really is telling. They increased the armor in order to afford the vehicles more protection against AV weaponry. Now they're engineering it out again on the other side. It's mudflation, and it's unnecessary in this game.

I guess we'll see.
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Old 2004-02-11, 02:42 PM   [Ignore Me] #40
Krinsath
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Things aren't really being engineered the other way though. The TTK is what really matters. Before, the TTK was insanely low. By the time the tank realized it was under serious attack, it had maybe two seconds to react before it was too late.

The TTK is still the slow rate it was before, so the driver has that much longer to figure out "Hmmmm...I'm being shot at, I should really go somewhere and repair" and drive off. With the exception of the Phoenix, it's amazing how effective driving over a hill is to keeping AV off your back.

I'm all in favor of any change that requires PS players to think more tactically rather than driving blindly into the face of the enemy with guns blazing.
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Old 2004-02-11, 02:48 PM   [Ignore Me] #41
Seer
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I'm aware of that they have the same ttk, but my point remains that this TTK will be much greater when averaged over multiple av users. In a given fight there are likely to be dozens of soldiers equipped with av. I'm not thinking about the individual here. The role I see infantry av weapons as having is as a 'last resort' infantry level vehicle countermeasure. The best anti vehicle weaponry should be, imo, other vehicles.

They shouldn't be very effective on an individual basis. The number of av weapons in the field requires no teamwork, no preparation, and sometimes, even, very little skill.
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