Gameplay: Quick-draw pistol

Sirisian · 2011-08-09, 07:09 PM

The pistol in Planetside took ages to switch to and no one other than cloakers used it as far as I know.

I'd like to see the pistol be used in the actual game. Increase the reload times of guns and make the switch to a pistol weapon slot very fast so you can be shooting then switch to it and fire off a few rounds for those times when you don't have time to reload. Holstering it could be slow to balance things.

I personally enjoy this kind of gameplay. Anyone else?

NewSith · 2011-08-09, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by Sirisian

The pistol in Planetside took ages to switch to and no one other than cloakers used it as far as I know.

I'd like to see the pistol be used in the actual game. Increase the reload times of guns and make the switch to a pistol weapon slot very fast so you can be shooting then switch to it and fire off a few rounds for those times when you don't have time to reload. Holstering it could be slow to balance things.

I personally enjoy this kind of gameplay. Anyone else?

I think, it was going to be implemented without this thread

I'm quite indifferent, but that's again "how most of the modern shooters work".

**Malorn** · 2011-08-09, 07:19 PM

In general the weapon change times in PS2 were too slow. I'd like to see them increased, specifically when switching to a pistol.

However, that said one important balance item is how quickly one can switch from anti-infantry to anti-vehicle, specifically with respect to MAX. If the switch is too quick then it'll be detrimental to max. Too slow and it becomes unrealistically unwieldly.

Even BFBC2 had different speeds for weapon draws. Pulling out Anti-vehicular weapons and reloading them was very slow compared to switching between a rifle and a pistol.

I think the same should be true in PS2 where some consideration is taken to the implications of a weapon and thus its draw speed could be adjusted accordingly.

Pistols, knives, and Medium-Assault should be fairly quick. I think heavy assault should be a little slower, with Anti-vehicular about what it was in PS2. Something along those lines.

Talek Krell · 2011-08-10, 12:40 AM

This sounds sensible enough. I expect pistols to also be more effective weapons in PS2. With the locational damage and the lower TTK, it sounds like you might reasonably kill someone with them. If that's the case then I'm likely to actually start carrying one.

Trolltaxi · 2011-08-10, 02:35 PM

I don't think PS weapon swap times were too slow. Have you ever tried to swap RL weapons? (not to mention the huge size and weight of weapons like MCG+Striker, or the JH+deci)

If you want to do it fast (to switch to sidearm or knife), you would have to drop your main weapon. That way you spare most of the movement needed to swap your weapons and you can do it really fast. If you want to keep your main weapon, it must take time till you holster it and pull the new one.

Hunting realism in a sci-fi shooter game may sound odd I know. I don't say that it should take 10 mins to have your rexo properly fitted on you...

But these weapon-related issues should be kept closer to realism. IMHO.

Bags · 2011-08-10, 04:02 PM

PS1 was fine, your fault if you run out of ammo or get caught with your pants down.

NewSith · 2011-08-10, 05:20 PM

I can somehow safely assume, that if there will be a sniper class in the game, it is, sadly, going to carry a sniper rifle and a useless fast-switch pistol. Same goes for all classes that don't have a flexible guns.

I'm totally against it though, but I'm pretty sure that they just don't care. Realism, yeah.

Sirisian · 2011-08-10, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by Bags

PS1 was fine, your fault if you run out of ammo or get caught with your pants down.

I knew someone was going to say this, but I didn't think it was going to be you. So you just don't like secondary guns I take it.

Is it because you're used to having 100 rounds in your machine gun?

I'm not meaning it to be a replacement for a main weapon. It could even not have enough damage to kill someone from full health, but just something that's short range that you could swap to.

Originally Posted by Trolltaxi

I don't think PS weapon swap times were too slow. Have you ever tried to swap RL weapons? (not to mention the huge size and weight of weapons like MCG+Striker, or the JH+deci)

Yeah I played airsoft so I carried a main p90 with a pistol. (Realistic weight). I think you're overestimating it for "realism". Switching to a sidearm isn't that big of a deal (I had a strap for my p90 so I'd drop it and pull the pistol).

It doesn't have to be available for all guns, but I feel it's a nice technique in a game to have the option. Most people firing ranged wouldn't switch to it. They'd just reload. I agree that a 2-handed weapon might not need it.

However, someone brought up a sniper. If snipers aren't a valid close range weapon (as they shouldn't be) then switching to a sidearm would be the most logical action.

Originally Posted by NewSith

I can somehow safely assume, that if there will be a sniper class in the game, it is, sadly, going to carry a sniper rifle and a useless fast-switch pistol. Same goes for all classes that don't have a flexible guns.

Why do you say useless? I'm confused.

321 · 2011-08-10, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by Bags

PS1 was fine, your fault if you run out of ammo or get caught with your pants down.

Looking like a fool with your pants on the ground.

Trolltaxi · 2011-08-11, 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by Sirisian

Yeah I played airsoft so I carried a main p90 with a pistol. (Realistic weight). I think you're overestimating it for "realism". Switching to a sidearm isn't that big of a deal (I had a strap for my p90 so I'd drop it and pull the pistol).

It is easier with a strap.

But will we have straps in PS2? Or just the mounting point on the back of the armour?

And besides realism, dropping weapons would really make the sidearm the "last resort". And I'd give that chance to the snipers too.

Sirisian · 2011-08-11, 12:55 AM

Originally Posted by Trolltaxi

It is easier with a strap.

But will we have straps in PS2? Or just the mounting point on the back of the armour?

And besides realism, dropping weapons would really make the sidearm the "last resort". And I'd give that chance to the snipers too.

I was imagining it as one hand putting the rifle on your back on a clock point while the other hand grabbed pulled out the gun. I guess that would be up to the animators though. I'm definitely in the boat that not all weapons would be given the ability. Not sure if dropping the gun in the best approach. Seems like an odd way to handle it.

I just want it to be more of a choice between reloading or taking a few more shots. You'd be switching back to a gun with no ammo anyway.

FIREk · 2011-08-11, 03:45 AM

Originally Posted by Bags

PS1 was fine, your fault if you run out of ammo or get caught with your pants down.

"Functional" doesn't equal "fine", and "fine" can always be made "good".

I always find it surprising how a lot of people here reject modern FPS mechanics and defend most, if not all of the slow, rusty, boring mechanics of the original PlanetSide. :P

Talek Krell · 2011-08-11, 03:50 AM

Yeah, what are those fuckers thinking, disliking things that you like and which are therefore clearly superior!

NewSith · 2011-08-11, 04:40 AM

Originally Posted by Sirisian

Why do you say useless? I'm confused.

Elaboration of the word "useless" in this context:

SO far in any game I've ever played, having a pistol as a secondary for sniper only saved you against... other single sniper in close combat. The chance for that combat is as low as hell. Using a sniper rifle close range is also a bare option, it rarely works as a good close-quarter resort. Thus I'm saying it's useless, and I always say the same about sniping in an agile in PS1.

**Malorn** · 2011-08-11, 09:22 AM

On the subject of realism and dropping weapons... Some soldiers use weapon straps and bungie cords to attach their weapon to their person specifically so they do not ever have to set their weapon down and it is always in reach. It helps prevent their weapon from being taken and used against them. Another benefit of this is that they can quite literally "drop" their primary weapon to do other things, including throwing grenades, pulling out out a pistol, operating communications devices, eating their lunch, etc. Lots of advantages in attaching ones weapon to ones person.

That said this is also one of those core areas where gameplay > realism. It has to. You want to preserve realism but weapons switching in FPS games has become rather fast and gamers accept that. The faster switching is also required for games where lethality is high and pacing is fast. It needs to be a significant advantage over reloading, and reload is probably what, 2-3 seconds at most? That's your real deciding factor - reload time vs secondary weapon switch time. If reload is faster nobody will ever use the secondary weapon. if they are marginally close then it is unlikely many will use the secondary weapon. If there's a perceivable 1s or more advantage then that is about the point where it can and will mean life or death in a fast-paced high-lethality game.

It's really about lethality, draw time, and reload time. Striking the right balance there will at the very least have different draw and reload times for different weapons. That's pretty standard too on modern shooters.