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Old 2014-02-08, 12:03 AM   [Ignore Me] #1
Mordelicius
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New WDS broken; Needs serious, immediate refinement


I was going to write a different post about PS2 I would title "PS2P: One foot charging, one foot retreating", then I was stunned how badly the new WDS scoring and award system is destroying the battles in PS2.

So, instead I'll just explain how busted the new WDS is. The effect on the gameplay is so severe that it requires immediate fix. I'll break it down in subsections:


Rewards drive the fight
- First of all, the personal reward is so high that, everything else is unimportant. Basically, every player just goes to cap a base for the WDS points to get the personal tier rewards.

Fights are now driven by those personal rewards. Fights are no longer important. It's what give easy WDS points is where players flock to.

Solution - Personal WDS rewards should be based on actual fighting. Acquiring cheap points for capping empty bases should be severely deemphasized (read more at the very bottom for suggestions).

Alerts are now WORTHLESS - That's right. Alerts are now utterly worthless in light of the new rewards. Just had an alert, Vanu ignored everything, just capped as much as they can.

Solution - ALL WDS scoring will be completely suspended during Alerts, except for the particular alert areas. Example: during Biolab alerts, only the Biolab will give points. Better yet, the Alert areas should give extra points on top of the normal scores. Otherwise, just remove all the alerts. It's an utter distraction.

Capping empty bases is highly favored and rewarded - (this section is extremely important) I just spent almost an hour losing base after base (totally outnumbered) in Indar during and after the alert and how many WDS point do I get? ZERO. Where are the NC? Capping the whole Amerish.

Defending outnumbered during alert means nothing. Defending outnumbered during non-alert mean nothing as well. Everything is about capping free bases to get the reward. The fights are literally gone, since your empire just stacks where there are no defenders. NC lost Peris, the adjacent Peris Base, the Crown, then Hvar, then Indar bay point, with TR and VS just divvying up Indar and NC has 60% population in Amerish.

So, I went to Esamir. Got into a base that's almost capped with 30 seconds left. How many point do I get for that 30 seconds? Seven points!! How many defenders are there. Practically none. I went to the next base. It's the same thing. I can't go to the next base any longer. I logged out.

The battle flow, alerts and fights are just obliterated. Players just want the WDS tier rewards. I want it too, sure. But hell, I want to PVP for it. Just as the now-obsolote Alert system would used to make players do.

Solutions: - Base point value need a cooldown or a weighted score value timer (or both).
Example (now, the actual time can be calibrated, the hours are just placeholders):

Base A: <1 hour after capped = 0 point value
Base A: 1 hour after capped = 1 point value
Base A: 2 hours after capped = 2 point value
Base A: 3 hours after capped = 3 point value
Base A: 4 hours after capped = 4 point value (maximum)

That means, the faster the base is exchanged, the lesser points it gives. Currently, it's a mess. Do you expect players to fight when the non-fighting rewards the most points? The personal point system and scoring system has to be completely reconfigured.

Secondly, a weighted score value timer may not be enough. Players will still ghostcap everything. Score value should also be weighted in terms of the ratio of the population of defenders to attackers. If the attackers outnumber the defender 2:1, it should be halved and so on and so forth.

Even if the defenders gave up the base, the attacker faction will still be EVENTUALLY rewarded in some form because they will hold the base.

In short, capturing empty bases should give no reward (zero WDS personal point). If the defenders strategically say, 'let's give them the base so they don't get a reward', it's OK. They lose territory, they lose WDS faction points and eventually, they will have to reclaim bases because it is sustainable up to only the Warpgate. Right there and then, the fight will have to ensue, the the points in capturing a base will actually matter. If we flip the coin and the new defender says "they didn't give us points earlier, let's give up this base too and give no points as well". Again, it's ok. Simply put, no fights = no personal WDS points towards the tiered rewards. And finally, on congruence to that, Holding (defending) bases should be more emphasized, because that's where all the fights will should happen. If players are rewarded for defending (as we are now), then more fights will happen. Actually, they really don't need to change the defense scoring at all (just refine it for scoring balance), they simply need to deemphasize personal scoring based on attacking empty bases and by that, defense is emphasized automatically.
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Old 2014-02-08, 12:41 AM   [Ignore Me] #2
capiqu
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Re: New WDS broken; Needs serious, immediate refinement


Yeah I didn't enjoy playing tonight as well.
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Old 2014-02-08, 07:22 AM   [Ignore Me] #3
almalino
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Re: New WDS broken; Needs serious, immediate refinement


Is the whole idea of WDS points to access a suзply caches?
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Old 2014-02-08, 08:27 AM   [Ignore Me] #4
Deringer
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Re: New WDS broken; Needs serious, immediate refinement


I like all your ideas M. That's why this is a pre-season. To test what works and what doesn't. I hope the devs take a lot of your ideas back to the table.
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Old 2014-02-08, 08:42 AM   [Ignore Me] #5
Crator
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Re: New WDS broken; Needs serious, immediate refinement


This is a problem. I saw the same thing as well. I'm surprised they never added a point reward system like PS1 had for base captures.

Remove ghost captures from giving WDS points and you might fix the issue.
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Last edited by Crator; 2014-02-08 at 11:03 AM.
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Old 2014-02-08, 09:01 AM   [Ignore Me] #6
camycamera
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Re: New WDS broken; Needs serious, immediate refinement


yep, this new system rewards ghost capping way too much.


this morning on briggs almost all of TR went off and ghost capped esamir and amerish, and while they succeeded at that, NC and VS completely took over Indar with ridiculous zergs. it wasn't fun for me, especially being TR. i just wanted to have fun and not ghost cap, yet in order to have fun we needed some damn reinforcements. but the only reinforcements we had were people like me and pubs.

platoons and outfits were too busy capping the other continents.

so yes, the WDS points should only be rewarded when capping bases with actual resistance. hell, attackers should get more WDS points for capping a base with a large resistance, and visa versa for defenders as well. that is all that is needed to fix it imo, although i like your ideas as well as they are similar if not the same as mine.
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Old 2014-02-08, 03:15 PM   [Ignore Me] #7
Binkley
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Re: New WDS broken; Needs serious, immediate refinement


I agree completely. As it is, WDS is broken and is ruining game play. Due to WDS, good fights are few and far between, it's just zergs rolling around ghost capping. Ack.
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Old 2014-02-08, 06:11 PM   [Ignore Me] #8
typhaon
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Re: New WDS broken; Needs serious, immediate refinement


I'll say it again...

Get rid of the arbitrary scoring systems and institute a map design where winning is a logical and tangible thing.
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Old 2014-02-08, 06:21 PM   [Ignore Me] #9
Mordelicius
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Re: New WDS broken; Needs serious, immediate refinement


Originally Posted by almalino View Post
Is the whole idea of WDS points to access a suзply caches?
Yes and no. The reward in of itself is not the problem. The problem is the pathways to the reward.

I'll illustrate it for you. Suppose there two exact, identical bases (Base A = Base B). They both give the same exact WDS faction point and WDS personal points. The difference is one base has 0 defender and the other has 48 defenders.

Base A - Zero defender (most attackers will go here). This is the heavily favored, most rewarded pathway.
Base B - Forty eight defenders (most attackers will avoid this). This is the unfavorable, unrewarding pathway.

Now, flip the coin. Where do the players in Base B with 48 defenders go to (since nobody is attacking them)? They go to the least defended base as well. Hence, you got a system of factions attacking EMPTY bases that has a positive feedback loop effect. Meanwhile, defending outnumberered has a negative feedback loop since, you simply will lose, lose and lose and not gain any personal WDS points at the same time. Eventually, you either will have to join the zerg or log out.

Imo, they should suspend the WDS until it is fixed. It is that bad .
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Old 2014-02-08, 06:54 PM   [Ignore Me] #10
capiqu
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Re: New WDS broken; Needs serious, immediate refinement


I say we should all go play at the test server.
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Old 2014-02-08, 06:57 PM   [Ignore Me] #11
KesTro
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Re: New WDS broken; Needs serious, immediate refinement


Personally.. I'm all in favor of alerts not meaning jack all. I hated 'em to begin with but I understand why they were introduced. With Esamir lattice in place and Amerish lattice soon to join it I just don't see a need for it.

Agree about the bit of ghost-capping though. I don't think you should get -nothing- for it but it should be significantly less compared to a base where fighting is actually happening.
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Old 2014-02-09, 01:49 AM   [Ignore Me] #12
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Re: New WDS broken; Needs serious, immediate refinement


haha, Hoardingside 2. XP loses its meaning if you get something that normally costs money.

I honestly want to get rid of all these small scale rewards and system, I hope alerts will be gone when we have intercontinental lattice too, all kinds of planned strategies fly out of the window the moment people get a new carrot that they automatically set as their main priority and forsake what they were just doing.
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Old 2014-02-10, 12:25 AM   [Ignore Me] #13
synkrotron
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Re: New WDS broken; Needs serious, immediate refinement


I have to admit... I was there, and we laughed at the rediculousness of it all.

On Friday, I was in a Gal with some squad mates on Amerish. There must have been at least another twenty or more Gals with a few Libs and Reavers, and some ground troops.

We basically followed the Zerg. There was some resistance, and it was easily squashed.

It was fun, in a way, but in the long run it just didn't feel right.

Then on Sunday morning I went onto Indar. Quartz Ridge was under attack so I spawned there to have a gander. There were around two dozen enemy ESF's buzzing around, so I went HA and used my Hawk, see if I could at least frighten a few off. It was pretty useless.

Went back to Hvar and the same Zerg turned up, of course, and I thought, sod this, and I went to Esamir.

I joined a squad mate and he spawned a Sundy and we joined our own Zerg. Simply loads and loads of other Sundy's and tanks... We went from base to base, with minimal resistance, in a kind of clockwise direction. After a bit we didn't even bother getting out of the Sundy and just waited for the timer to run down. Every now and then, to break up the boredom, I ventured out to hack a vehicle spawn or a few terms and turrets.

And while that was going on, the enemy were doing exactly the same thing to the north. It was just too easy, to bag the WDS points uncontested, than to meet each other face to face.

Sunday evening was pretty much the same thing. I spent most of my evening session as a loner, jumping from one failing base to another just so I could get some target practice in. Thankfully, it wasn't all close range "sniping" and I was able to practice some reasonably long range stuff, which is what really makes me smile about this game.

As for the WDS... In its current form I may have taken advantage of some of the prizes given out, but on the whole, I do not like it. And the trouble is, if you don't join the Zerg, you're left trying to counter the Zerg with only a relative handful of allies.
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Old 2014-02-10, 02:30 AM   [Ignore Me] #14
almalino
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Re: New WDS broken; Needs serious, immediate refinement


Originally Posted by synkrotron View Post
Thankfully, it wasn't all close range "sniping" and I was able to practice some reasonably long range stuff, which is what really makes me smile about this game.
This weekend I picked up my silenced Impetus with 1x fast reticle and went short range hunting using "Instant Action" button. I didn't use Impetus for half a year and man it is so much fun.

I managed to kill 2-3 enemies in a row many times doing cloak, run behind enemy lines, uncloak, 2-3 hits into the head, cloak, change position, 2-3 hits into the head and so forth.
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Old 2014-02-10, 06:21 AM   [Ignore Me] #15
Emperor Newt
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Re: New WDS broken; Needs serious, immediate refinement


I would have actually preferred if the made the supply crates only one or two tiers and equal percentages to get the same things in both of them (so far it seems like the higher tiers yield better results?)
That would hopefully reduce the amount of people just farming for their personal WDS score and actually do stuff like playing the game. Not hopping between bases that are going to flip within the next 30 seconds.
Defending bases has become completely useless as even the zerg ceases to exist once an attack fails. One second you have a 48/48 fight, the next it's 48/12. It's really not much fun to play right now unless you are attacking all the time. Maybe that's what they were going for, but then I have to say that this was/is a stupid idea.
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