Originally Posted by Ghoest9
A mech that is basically an asymmetrically balanced MBT is great.
Anything more is HORRIBLE!!
|
Creating a recpacement for the tank isn't a good direction to go. A mech should ideally be its own vehicle with its own weaknesses and strengths. That being said I've said this countless times that role overlapping a mech with a tank will just make the community angry. There are a lot of people that enjoy using tanks because of their modern feel and their heavy hitting AV cannon.
If you want to go AV I think a better approach would be to give it slower projectile HSR type guns. That is accurate "ranged" runs with a high COF allowing them to act like ambush or scout vehicles depending on how much the driver wants to fire. Really have to think what types of guns would be generally versatile without forcing the game to implement a max type customization system.
Originally Posted by Kipper
...but incentivises people NOT pulling other vehicles so that they can save up to get the one OP mech.
|
That's why an overpowered vehicle in any form mixed with the resource system is not a good idea. I explained this concept briefly in the
resources thread. Basically a player should never feel the need to have to save up for an extended time for a single item. That kind of stuff just puts a drop in a players fun. So to do that all vehicles must be balanced as if you could pull them every spawn. The concept of an overpowered vehicle or outfit only vehicle is what turns people off to complex chassis. It would be like suggesting something as powerful as a galaxy should be outfit only. Makenz summed it up really well so I'll just quote his response:
Originally Posted by Mackenz
I think anything that is gated to best outfits reduces the accessibility - it means you have to get into a big outfit just to play one, and then probably be the OL's pet to get it over another outfit player.
Anything that so severely limits availability (very high resources, high timers, number currently fielded etc) seems to go against the grain of PS2, where you have reasonable access to everything, just not everything at the same time (or so it seems).
|
Originally Posted by EVILPIG
The real issue I see, is that even if balanced, how can you allow so much power to go into one to a few player's hands.
|
That's the fun thing about balancing. A mech doesn't have to be about an overpowered vehicle. In fact I don't believe a game like planetside could ever truly implement a vehicle like that successfully and get it to work with the game. The concept of making a "rare" vehicle is nice in theory, but honestly most people would probably just prefer a regular vehicle. It would be like suggesting a lightning but then going "but it had 10x the armor as a tank and has a regenerating shield". Sure you could do it, but people are gonna hate it and I think that's one of the big problems here. It could have been any vehicle they released that was overpowered in the same way and the community would have locked onto it as a game breaker.
Originally Posted by Tom Peters
The problem with BFRs is that they were FULLY MANNED by ONE PLAYER. Such a powerful vehicle should require way more manpower to operate, and it wouldn't have been such a horrible game-breaker.
|
Exactly. However, more manpower is the wrong way to go for gameplay. It's the same reason you don't see the devs talking about implementing a 4 person tank. It ends up being gunned by driven and gunned by two people and still have a large amount of health making it overpowered. There is a solution though using the resource system. Not that I'd support it for a mech, but for like galaxy gunship it would be fine, but they could allow one to spend resources as described in my resource thread that I linked previously whereas a person places a squad or outfit order at a terminal for a 12 person vehicle then other players would use the terminal and offer their resources to pay the difference effectively allowing a squad or outfit vehicle simply because of the high cost. That is to say you could configure and fly a cheaper stock version with like 3 guns unlocked instead of all of them.
Originally Posted by basti
BFRs are powerful, both in defense and offence. They have to be, as they are giant targets. Thats their key issue actually, the reason why its just impossible to balance them.
|
So make them smaller (12 foot) and weaker (no shield and twice the armor of a lightning give or take). You have a very weak grasp of balance since I just negated the "key issue" you described. That and component based damage goes a far way for balancing them. We have some interesting terrain. Just because they are "tall" doesn't mean they are at a disadvantage per se in all terrain. Maybe out in some flat terrain where tanks are fighting they have some problems at medium range strafing cannon shells. In a canyon area on a cliff wall shooting down at a tank suddenly they're a tactical asset for that area. Designing vehicles and taking into considerations where they are balanced and in which situations they might be overpowered is really something that would need to be tested.
This is one of the more constructive threads since the only problem people have with mechs is that they are under the assumption they must be more powerful than any vehicle. Galaxy gunship would be a much better platform for an outfit vehicle and supporting tons of players. With a mech you end up creating passenger roles that no one wants to do and vehicle should never do that.
Originally Posted by ArmedZealot
Well if you want to make a cloaking scout bfr thats all up to you. Or a sniping one even eesh.
|
That would be sweet. That's one of the reasons I love the idea of having sidegrades/upgrades for vehicles with the resource system. Not really a fan too much of sniping for infantry, but slower firing long range AV bolts with AV damage that I describe above would be cool. That or just allow shoulder missile packs on the arms would be interesting. I described a mech before as a Reaver on the ground and the concept was lost to a lot of people.
Originally Posted by nadir
Stop fucking try to roll every God damn game into one FFS.
|
You make that sound like a bad thing. Personally I'd hate if this game turned into a generic FPS with only modern weapons. Luckily the VS really keeps the game true to its science-fiction origins. (It's one of the reasons I played VS in the original game. It was different). Also you're taking on example, mechs and suggesting they can only exist in mech only games, which is a sad generalization. In a science fiction game like this I read your statement like this:
Originally Posted by nadir
If you want aircraft, then go play Microsoft Flight Simulator that is supposedly coming out. Stop fucking try to roll every God damn game into one FFS.
|
Originally Posted by stargazer093
huh? I thought we already have a mech
its power by one man
can have two different weapon on each arm
can have shield
yeah, i`m talking about MAXes
|
This was covered in other threads a few times in depth. Maxes are actually infantry armor the same size as a normal soldier. The pictures might be deceiving if you haven't played Planetside 1. They can go inside and sit at doors and move around facilities with players to soak up damage for making pushes. A mech is vehicle which are larger than a soldier. The size I keep references is 12 feet (3.5m) in height since it's short enough to still look like a small vehicle.
Originally Posted by Geist
That's exactly what I was talking about. My scout BFR idea was to bring back the flight variant, with less armor and weapons. Jump jets on a ground vehicle definitely make it more maneuverable then an ATV but slower. More armored then than AirCav but less maneuverable.
|
In my old mech thread I listed jump jets. It definitely depends on their implementation. Combining it with the resource system I linked earlier would be ideal in that players would be paying for it if they needed it for the terrain they were playing on. That and balancing it with other modules. Someone mentioned cloak. I'm personally a fan of momentary shields like in BF2142 for blocking say an fighter that launches a barrage of rockets. That kind of tactics of seeing a threat and responding to them is one of my favorite things. Or turning the torso and blocking the rockets with your arm and having it be disabled.
12 foot timberwolf with components is usually what I'm thinking of if anyone hasn't read my previous posts (though I'm sure T-Ray could make a sleeker looking nanite systems design since he seem to like mechs):
2012-03-15, 06:39 PM
Linear Mode
