News: News on Nanoweave Armour and Sniper Rifles - Page 3

Sirisian · 2013-11-12, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by GeoGnome

Why would SMG sales be worse now than they were before?

Why would you nerf weapons of the least used class, to boost the sales of a weapon available to all classes?

Why wouldn't you nerf Shotguns instead of sniper rifles, as they compete the most for SMG money?

I'm saying they didn't sell well because infiltrators had other roles they can play. It's nerfed to force anyone that invested into that class to change playstyles and make the SMG more important. Shotguns can't be used by infiltrators.

This seems to be their infiltrator revamp a bit early. That is gearing them more for close range and removing the far range combat from the game to more focus on objectives.

It might seem odd, but a lot of their balance decisions have had a marketing aspect tied into them. It's not really hidden since they've done it with most weapons when they were released then balanced months later. I think it would be better to just wait it out like normal. The designers will have a balance epiphany later that does what the community wants after their ulterior goals are met.

Vashyo · 2013-11-12, 02:14 PM

Wish the snipers got some differing advantages apart from faster reload speed on the weaker OHK-snipers, that's not really essential to a sniper.

Majority of people just use RAMS/Parallax/Longshot cause it is simply better thanks to the higher damage and speed.

synkrotron · 2013-11-12, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by OCNSethy

Next time you snipe, drop a personal way point on the target area. It will tell you how far you are. Not laser accurate but it gives you an idea. 10x scope will be still useful at 150m

Thanks Sethy. Someone in my outfit had mentioned that too but I've not sussed out how to do it yet. Next time I'm online I'll give it a go.

One thing I can remember is that a person is taking up around 30~40% of my scope at times. Anything less than that and I don't have the skills to cope, keeping my cross hair on target and holding my breath.

Originally Posted by Ghoest9

This isnt meant to be flip but why dont you just try out the scopes in VR - or buy them they only cost 30 certs each, and try them.

Aye dood, I'd done that already, but thanks

Anyway, whatever happens, I'll be there with my Longshot in the future, having a good time

DirtyBird · 2013-11-12, 03:00 PM

150m is very short and I hope that is revised, but I think it might balance out for snipers overall.
Nanoweave will no longer resist headshots so I'm not going to see as many of those go to waste.(with in the designated range)

On the other side, giving snipers a 360° one-shot kill with unlimited range against all other players is not something we want to introduce into the game.

Well technically you are more than happy to introduce it Higby, we're just haggling over the effective distance?

HereticusXZ · 2013-11-12, 03:11 PM

The hell Snipers are worthless? They wouldn't be nerfing Snipers if they felt they were worthless. Alternatively if there nerfing Snipers just to promote more CQC action then that's BS also, to kill a entire play-style and force someone to play a way they don't care for. PS2 is Massive Scale with tons of options and there killing it.

Snipers are the ones thinning out the stream of infantry pouring out of the enemy Sunderer when vehicle spam isn't available.

Snipers the one to take out that Engineers AV turret that's hitting your Sunderer.

Snipers the one picking off those HA Lock-Ons that are fucking up your Airforce.

When your charging a facility it's the Sniper picking off the enemy Overwatch teams that are trying to choke up your squads avenue of attack.

When the enemy decides to go Sniper Hunting, depending on the skill-level of the Sniper that's a noticeable number of troops off hunting Snipers and not pushing the Objective.

Snipers the one camping the vehicle terminals to deny the enemy vehicle support.

That's all just the tip of the iceberg of what a Sniper can do

The thrill to being a Sniper is the patience and the hunt, the excitement of that one shot, one kill at a extreme range. Snipers are super squishy with retardedly slow firing weapons, beyond AI Mines and grenades that every infantry has they have absolutely NO area attack weapons and can do absolutely nothing to vehicles.
With the exception of rocket launchers EVERY other weapon in PS2 is all about super high TTK' as you barrel into the shit storm. Snipers have OSK to compensate for that lack of a TTK, and I hate that the games so focused on forcing you to have a super high TTK.

GeoGnome · 2013-11-12, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by Sirisian

I'm saying they didn't sell well because infiltrators had other roles they can play. It's nerfed to force anyone that invested into that class to change playstyles and make the SMG more important. Shotguns can't be used by infiltrators.

...But SMGs can be purchased by anyone. I use one on my LA, and a lot of people use it on the Heavy. It's an alternate CQC option to the shotguns, and for that reason it would be better (If you had a slump in SMG sales and you wanted to boost that through mechanics changes) to nerf shotguns further, except that didn't happen. They changed one weapon type of one class that has access to the weapon.

I mean, Infil is probably the least played class. Wouldn't it make more sense to change the CQC weapons that influence the heavy and the LA, so they would be more likely to use the SMG... as opposed to a class that next to no one plays?

Originally Posted by Sirisian

This seems to be their infiltrator revamp a bit early. That is gearing them more for close range and removing the far range combat from the game to more focus on objectives.

The more I think about it, the less upset I am, but I still think this is a load. There are some fundamental problems with sniping in PS2:

You can't really impact the battle as a sniper. You can only take out one target at a time, and reviving people makes that already tiny contribution even smaller
Sniping at long range is all about lag compensation and clientside hit detection. I am pretty sure after a certain range, you hit the target, it'll count as a headshot.

The thing is, fixing those things in my mind doesn't mean, lowering the effective range of OHK headshots for BASRs, which Rely on headshots to get kill due to the abysmal reload speed. This will mean people use the semi-auto rifle 100% more often. I'm switching my default TR sniper loadout tonight, back to the default TR rifle, so I can get used to firing off 3-4 shots in quick succession again.

Fixing this means adding something in about sniping that can provide an advantage in combat. Sniping could wound someone so that they move faster or are less accurate. Or sniping could cause a momentary flashbang or concussive effect. Those things could make snipers MUCH more useful than they are now. That is how you fix them.

Originally Posted by Sirisian

It might seem odd, but a lot of their balance decisions have had a marketing aspect tied into them. It's not really hidden since they've done it with most weapons when they were released then balanced months later. I think it would be better to just wait it out like normal. The designers will have a balance epiphany later that does what the community wants after their ulterior goals are met.

I have always found this a poorly thought out yet popular hypothesis. I always by default consider that you should never attribute to malice what can easily be explained by poor planning. Moreover, when something is implemented, people complain in mass, with 100s of threads about it being OP and totally wrecking their game experience. HUNDREDS. Then when it is nerfed, people say it's because of money. Most of the time the nerfs are nerfs in name only. Someone has to make some kind of leap logically to call it a real Nerf. The harasser nerf upcoming is an excellent example. They are paying attention only to the silly things that people complain about. In doing so, they aren't balancing the Harasser.... but people are going to say the reason it is being done is because of money. If in my mind, they were going to balance the vehicle properly, because of money, they would fix it properly... IE: lower the speed or maneuverability, back to what "They intend it to be". Instead SOE is nerfing Exactly what people want them to.

Why? Because forumside is filled with shortsighted people interested in instant gratification and attacking the opposing faction to their own. Faction loyalty in the game is something that does exist (Despite people's claims) but it isn't about playing one faction, it's about getting other sides nerfed. Forumside is obsessed with attacking their own enemy of the moment. Whoever it is popular to hate on forumside are the ones who often get their equipment put on the chopping block, and whoever makes the most poignant case for how horrible things are for them, will get a buff. That is why the VS haven't seen any buffs in a long time, you see very few (If any) people complaining about VS weapons. By doing this SOE pay enough attention to the people who are complaining that they put out one of the many many many fires they have to deal with on a daily basis.

Besides,if they fix it at any point, people will just write it off as SOE being Greedy anyway... so do they loose anything by waiting to fix it? No one is going to believe anything they say, so they may as well put it on the backburner and work on something that matters.

GreyFrog · 2013-11-12, 03:27 PM

I would have thought they should make it the opposite? No OHK inside 150m, outside that you can. Wouldn't this reward good skill? I can't remember the last time someone sniped me from over 100m, I don't stop moving for them

DirtyBird · 2013-11-12, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by GreyFrog

I would have thought they should make it the opposite? No OHK inside 150m, outside that you can. Wouldn't this reward good skill? I can't remember the last time someone sniped me from over 100m, I don't stop moving for them

You currently wear nanoweave on your HA or would have noticed plenty of times, trust me

GreyFrog · 2013-11-12, 03:54 PM

I wear NW on everything, this change probably won't see that change. I have a higher than average HS rate, so these changes are generally positive for my play style. Flak still doesnt protect against direct hits so its very niche in uses, when it changes I'll have to make a decision on what to wear depending on the situation.

Too few cap points are outside to ever make a sniper infiltrator useful IMO. I get that people like to play them, but they don't really impact the battlefield.

Edit: wait thats not true :P I run Adren Pump on my LA. Generally dont get sniped on that class, too mobile.

Sirisian · 2013-11-12, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by GeoGnome

Moreover, when something is implemented, people complain in mass, with 100s of threads about it being OP and totally wrecking their game experience. HUNDREDS. Then when it is nerfed, people say it's because of money.

It's possible it's both. Release an overpowered weapon that is purchased in mass then do as the community says and nerf it into the ground before the next weapon release cycle. In theory it's a perfect marketing plan especially since it can be subtle.

Originally Posted by GeoGnome

I always by default consider that you should never attribute to malice what can easily be explained by poor planning.

I want to believe that, but honestly a few minutes of play testing in the VR by a designer will figure out a lot of these issues. I fail to believe a designer can't see the issues. In any case an ethical decision would be to release them slightly underpowered and balance upward. There's a calculated decision to go the other way. I think PTS is stopping a lot of that though now since players can review damage models and comment on them before they hit the game as long as they don't skip PTS.

Originally Posted by GeoGnome

They are paying attention only to the silly things that people complain about. In doing so, they aren't balancing the Harasser.... but people are going to say the reason it is being done is because of money. If in my mind, they were going to balance the vehicle properly, because of money, they would fix it properly... IE: lower the speed or maneuverability, back to what "They intend it to be". Instead SOE is nerfing Exactly what people want them to.

Agreed. It's why I tend to not post on the main forums much. Every thread is drowned by every possible thought with no real discussion. It's not hard to break down the strengths of the harasser into composite armor, healing in the back seat, top speed, acceleration, turning, turbo, and secondary weapons and quickly see which changes would be necessary. I think you the nail though. (Well one of them at least).

War Barney · 2013-11-12, 05:55 PM

The 150m range might be to extreme but something definitely needed to be done, people who are trying to say that snipers aren't that great obviously haven't played anything but a sniper... maybe they don't have a huge impact on the battlefield but there is nothing more annoying. It seems that if you stand still for one second you end up getting 1 shot in the head with on chance to hide, even if you thought you were behind cover.

Jaybonaut · 2013-11-12, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by HereticusXZ

Instead give Infantry more tools to counter Snipers.

Just stop right there. Sniping is really tough in this game when compared to lots of others. If a player headshots you from 200 meters, you should die unless you are in a Max. There is no other logical or fair choice.

It seemed many people wanted to get rid of Nanoweave altogether for the health of the game. I don't disagree with them.

Jaybonaut · 2013-11-12, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by GreyFrog

Flak still doesnt protect against direct hits so its very niche in uses

There really isn't a better option than Flak for an engineer's survival. I agree though about the direct hits; I thought they had that on test awhile back. Hopefully that will get in at some point.

Jaybonaut · 2013-11-12, 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by AThreatToYou

So you're going to throw a years worth of balance out the window?

I mean, I approve of the sniper max OHK range but please do not change how nanoweave affects headshots.

As mentioned, there's been much discussion about the removal of Nanoweave altogether. If you get sniped in the head via bolt action, you should die. Period. SOE realizes this and have finally gotten around to it.

The range limitation is too short though.

ChipMHazard · 2013-11-12, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by Jaybonaut

There really isn't a better option than Flak for an engineer's survival. I agree though about the direct hits; I thought they had that on test awhile back. Hopefully that will get in at some point.

I'm definently looking at using flak once they implement the direct hit mitigation. All depending on how much they nerf explosives*, if they make them weak enough that I won't get OHK most of the time then I might not bother.

* They are going to rebalance explosives along with the nanoweave changes.